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"Kilmarnock are a team in trouble after a summer of strange signings"


skygod

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LEE CLARK, the Kilmarnock manager, is not the first to believe that filling your team full of players from the outer reaches of English football will be good enough for the Scottish Premier League.

He signed eleven on the one day in the summer including loans from Huddersfield Town and others released by clubs because they couldn’t cut it and had spells with non-league sides on their CV.

The Ladbrokes Premier League might not be La Liga but it has been proven time and again that just because someone was once signed by a big-ish English club, having never got close to the first-team, does not mean they will come here and stroll the Scottish game.

Clark may claim it is too early to make judgements on his Kilmarnock side. But losing at home to Morton and now Albion Rovers on penalty kicks on Saturday after a 0-0 draw is simply shocking.

Seven points from a possible 12 against lower-league opposition in the Betfred Cup section is a woeful start and, among other things, the manager is demanding more urgency.

"I was very, very disappointed," said Clark, who last week denied a report that he was considering quitting. "We showed a bit of urgency only in the last 10 minutes and I don't know why that is.

"We reiterated that to them at half-time and said we needed to do that more so why we've waited until then to do that I don't know.

"We should have been doing that from the off and, certainly, from the first whistle of the second half because I'd just spoken to them about it.

"It's not as though we didn't have enough attacking players out there but did we make enough chances for those lads?

"We made Albion Rovers' job a lot easier for them because the slower we played, the easier it was to play against us. There's lots for us to work on and we know we have to improve, we know that but it's not tactical - it's just the basics.

"We need to have more guile and play the game quicker. It's simple - play the game quicker with more speed both in our passing and in our movements off the ball. This squad is honest, they're good lads but we need to improve in a lot of areas."

Good lads don’t always make good players. Kilmarnock are in some state and there would not be too many surprised if Clark did not stick around much longer.

Why he felt the need to ignore players who at least knew the Scottish league was a strange one, as was signing an entirely new team when in truth he only needed five or six and, with some good coaching, the squad would have improved.

And what does it say to the young players at Kilmarnock when their path is blocked by players few have heard of.

Albion Rovers have a good young manager in Derek Young but in truth Coatbridge’s finest should have had no chance against a top tier side.

However, they kept a blank sheet and then had enough about them to win the shoot-out and overall deserved their win.

“We said beforehand that with the pitch we’d be able to pass the ball about and that’s what we done,” said Young. “Against a full-time side, their fitness is probably better, but all of our guys put in a great performance.

“Defensively we were brilliant throughout and stuck the penalties away nicely. Overall, it’s been a great day for us and we now need to take that kind of performance into the league campaign.”

Unlike Kilmarnock who need to find something before their league season begins at home to Motherwell on Saturday.

(Herald)

 

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The obvious difference between what Clark has done and a similar approach taken by clubs such as ICT and Ross County in the past is the age of the players he has signed and their lack of first team experience at any level.
I had hoped that the league cup games would give them a chance to build up their confidence against lower level of opposition before the league season started but in fact the opposite has happened.
I think that makes Saturday's game all the more important but a lot more difficult as well. They really need to put in a positive performance very soon.
I think it was Pascali that was quoted in saying that a big part of being successful in football is a combination of confidence and organisation. Not sure either of these qualities have been very much in evidence so far so Saturday would be a good time to start.

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It is a bit early to say we are a team in trouble, however, it is a massive gamble by Clark. Hopefully it works out but we will have a better idea after the first couple of league games. Last season we were confident after pre-season then proceeded to get towed 4-0 at home by an average side on the first day of the season. Not time to panic.......yet.

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I don't think it is too early to say we're in trouble. There's been no evidence to show many of Clark's signings will be a success and without bringing in some experienced quality, I'm not sure where'd go from here. "Play the game quicker" might seem an obvious answer but I fear that it's no different from the "work harder" solution offered by our previous manager. 

Perhaps it's too early to go into full blown panic mode or to employ cliches about Clark underestimating the standard because he doesn't belong to the right old boys club, but there's very little on show to instill confidence. The defence and the midfield look especially weak, there's no obvious leaders on or off the park, and we don't appear to have settled on a system we're comfortable playing. I'm also of the opinion we've brought in too many loanees,  or perhaps more importantly, we're too reliant on them. There's nothing wrong with using the loan system to bolster your squad but when they make up around half your first team, you're dicing with danger.

And before someone says something about these just being preseason games for us, when did Albion Rovers, Berwick Clyde and Morton do there's? 

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6 minutes ago, Zorro said:

There's nothing wrong with using the loan system to bolster your squad but when they make up around half your first team, you're dicing with danger.

I agree with you that, unless they are exceptional talents, five loan players seems too many. It's hard to know what commitment they will show if we get into a crisis, especially as inexperienced players.

However, there was only a couple who started the match on Saturday - Davies, who could easily have been replaced by MacDonald, and Boyle. 

  

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53 minutes ago, skygod said:

I agree with you that, unless they are exceptional talents, five loan players seems too many. It's hard to know what commitment they will show if we get into a crisis, especially as inexperienced players.

However, there was only a couple who started the match on Saturday - Davies, who could easily have been replaced by MacDonald, and Boyle. 

  

I don't just worry about their commitment in a crisis, I worry about what happens if they do well. Will their parent club recall them or try and cash in on players they don't see as part of their long term plans?

Are we under pressure to play them? Our squad looks pretty threadbare without them, and I can't imagine many clubs are keen on loaning out players so they can sit in someone else's stand on match days . 

And  how does it effect our own young players, If they suddenly see their path to the first team blocked by a player only here for six months? Will it make them knuckle down and work harder or do their heads go down because they think the manager doesn't rate them? 

Edited by Zorro
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4 hours ago, Wrangodog said:

The article only says what a lot of us are worried about at the moment. Always amusing that fans can slag the team off on here but if a journalist writes the same thing they rush to attack them.

I don't think anyone is denying the journalist (or anyone else for that matter) their right to comment.

The biggest bugbear for me is the lazy and unfounded opinions they're passing off as truths...

Avoiding completely the fact that he/she calls the league by two different names within the first three sentences (it's the 'Ladbrokes Premiership' FFS - is that really too complicated?) I'd like to know the facts behind the assertion that you need a squad of players that "know the league" in order to flourish. Ignoring the obvious that we have Stevie Smith, Jamie MacDonald, Greg Kiltie, Miles Addison, Rory McKenzie, Gary Dicker, Kris Boyd & Josh Magennis who all "know the league", where does this idea that only guys who've played in Dingwall four times in a season before can flourish, come from? With proper coaching and preparation for a match it shouldn't matter whether you were born on South Hamilton Street or couldn't point out Ayrshire on a map. 

Another argument put forward is that it's detrimental to the young players already at the club to see their "paths blocked" by these new signings. For one - how is Josh Webb "blocking" a youth player's progression to the first team any different to Daryll Westlake doing the same? Or Mikael Lustig at Celtic? Or Tavernier at Rangers? Or any other signing any other club makes ever?

It's lazy journalism, and that's what ranquers with fans.

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You're really not attacking lazy journalism, you're attacking the article itself.  Nit-picking because he doesn't call the league by it’s full name ? Lots of people don't refer to the sponsor every single time they talk about our top league. Comparing Westlake with other players who keep youngsters out of the first team is irrelevant, the article was about Kilmarnock, and yes, a youngster, Taylor, would have been better than Westlake.

The article isn't perfect but it does make some valid points. We should accept criticism because we have been served a diet of rubbish for too long and we deserve criticism.

Edited by Wrangodog
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The bit about paths being blocked does my head in. This is at least the second journo to say it and it's not backed up by anything other than their imagination. 

Clark showed last season he was willing to make the big decisions with regard to youngsters. McKenzie, Slater, Kiltie were given big roles in the run in and playoffs despite more experienced and thought of better players sitting on the bench. He gave an untried youngster two starts at the end of the season the second in one of the biggest matches in our recent history. 

I don't see the new players any more likely to block the talented youngster path to the first team than the guys signed last year or the year before. Maybe they're less likely to block the path because unlike others they can't be selected on reputation

Two boys lined up for Albion Rovers in midfield on Saturday. Ross Davidson and Gary Fisher. For me that's two players whose paths were blocked to our first team. Ultimately they may not have been good enough but having had a taste of first team already and looking to get more involved they found the barrier of Barry Nicholson and Kyle Jacobs put in front of them. A thirty something player on his way out of the game and an average performer from an average Livi side the year before. AJ wasn't slaughtered for that he got praise for adding good experience and giving a lower league player a chance. 

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2 hours ago, Wrangodog said:

Nit-picking because he doesn't call the league by it’s full name ? Lots of people don't refer to the sponsor every single time they talk about our top league. 

So because lot's of people make the same mistake it's okay for a paid journalist to do the same? And it wasn't the Ladbrokes point either, it was still calling it the Premier League which is its incorrect title. Amateur stuff.

2 hours ago, Wrangodog said:

 Comparing Westlake with other players who keep youngsters out of the first team is irrelevant, the article was about Kilmarnock, and yes, a youngster, Taylor, would have been better than Westlake.

The article contained the line "and what does that say to the young players at Kilmarnock when their path is blocked by players few have heard of"... Where was that criticism when we signed McHattie, Robinson or Hamill e.g? The author of the article seems to be suggesting that we allow our own young players into the first team without competition. What signing these guys (or any signings, ever) should say to young players is "go out there in training and U20s games and show why you deserve to play ahead of them". 

I like Taylor, but two good games doesn't make you a guaranteed starter for me. He came on against Albion Rovers and was worse than Webb IMO. It's impossible to say that Taylor would have been better than Westlake at that time too 'cos we'd rarely seen him play at that stage. I'd love for us to have a squad of home grown kids ready to step up and play in the Premiership every week but the reality is we don't.

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9 minutes ago, piffer said:

The bit about paths being blocked does my head in. This is at least the second journo to say it and it's not backed up by anything other than their imagination. 

Clark showed last season he was willing to make the big decisions with regard to youngsters. McKenzie, Slater, Kiltie were given big roles in the run in and playoffs despite more experienced and thought of better players sitting on the bench. He gave an untried youngster two starts at the end of the season the second in one of the biggest matches in our recent history. 

I don't see the new players any more likely to block the talented youngster path to the first team than the guys signed last year or the year before. Maybe they're less likely to block the path because unlike others they can't be selected on reputation

Two boys lined up for Albion Rovers in midfield on Saturday. Ross Davidson and Gary Fisher. For me that's two players whose paths were blocked to our first team. Ultimately they may not have been good enough but having had a taste of first team already and looking to get more involved they found the barrier of Barry Nicholson and Kyle Jacobs put in front of them. A thirty something player on his way out of the game and an average performer from an average Livi side the year before. AJ wasn't slaughtered for that he got praise for adding good experience and giving a lower league player a chance. 

Well said.

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51 minutes ago, piffer said:

I don't see the new players any more likely to block the talented youngster path to the first team than the guys signed last year or the year before. Maybe they're less likely to block the path because unlike others they can't be selected on reputation

The only thing would be if the owning clubs have some expectation or even agreement that the loaned players will be playing first-team football. 

From their point of view, there would be little point in loaning players out just to play Development League football. So there may be actual or implied pressure on LC to select them above our own kids (and I think the time has long past when McKenzie should be considered a youngster!).

If the loaned players are not up to standard, they can be returned in January.

 

 

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At the start for the season I was optimistic, liked the idea of these young lads coming in and proving their previous clubs wrong by shinning playing for us. Only a few have done that, Jones, Boyle and couliably for me. 

I am very concerned for us this season, last season I thought GL had brought in good players, at least on paper and looks like I fell for the same tripe this season. 

I applaud those of you who are still optimistic and believe things will come good but from having been at all 4 cup games, I honestly don't see us staying up. Those boys are going to have to sink or swim, if what I fear comes true, I. E. We get off to a bad start and the lack of experience, the age of the boys, i find it difficult seeing them having the mental strength to pull through.

The team needs more experience badly, as discussed loads on other threads, especially in midfield.

I hope I am wrong and we do well but I think this is our calling.

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On ‎29‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 9:01 PM, KTIDanny85 said:

Cgood to hear some positivity. Its easy to become negative and get sucked into all the doom and gloom with so many fans on here.   

 

25 minutes ago, KTIDanny85 said:

I applaud those of you who are still optimistic and believe things will come good but from having been at all 4 cup games, I honestly don't see us staying up.

What happened between Friday and Monday then?!

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2 hours ago, Cill Mheàrnaig said:

So because lot's of people make the same mistake it's okay for a paid journalist to do the same? And it wasn't the Ladbrokes point either, it was still calling it the Premier League which is its incorrect title. Amateur stuff.

The article contained the line "and what does that say to the young players at Kilmarnock when their path is blocked by players few have heard of"... Where was that criticism when we signed McHattie, Robinson or Hamill e.g? The author of the article seems to be suggesting that we allow our own young players into the first team without competition. What signing these guys (or any signings, ever) should say to young players is "go out there in training and U20s games and show why you deserve to play ahead of them". 

I like Taylor, but two good games doesn't make you a guaranteed starter for me. He came on against Albion Rovers and was worse than Webb IMO. It's impossible to say that Taylor would have been better than Westlake at that time too 'cos we'd rarely seen him play at that stage. I'd love for us to have a squad of home grown kids ready to step up and play in the Premiership every week but the reality is we don't. 

 

Maybe we don't but there has been no sign so far that the players Clark has brought in are any better.

Premier League, Premiership ?

A more accurate description would be three lower English Championship standard sides and a load of cack.

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38 minutes ago, skygod said:

On ‎29‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 9:01 PM, KTIDanny85 said:

Cgood to hear some positivity. Its easy to become negative and get sucked into all the doom and gloom with so many fans on here.   

 

What happened between Friday and Monday then?!

The game mate, it was terrible as u know and I think also being at rugby park and all the negativity, my impatience and expectations not being met. After those 4 cups games I just don't have the passion or belief at the moment, feel let down and greatly disappointed.

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I agree we usually do better with local guys in the side. Dint agree that it doesn't matter as long as they win. I think it does really matter where the players come from. I don't mind some players from other countries being mixed in, but having a team full of people unconnected to Kilmarnock, or Ayrshire, or even Scotland, who change round every six months, is of little interest to me. 

I think as a club, it really helps if fans can be connected in some way to the players.

We  still have some local guys in the club and that has to  continue if there is any hope of crowds coming back. People will watch winning teams irrespective, but there are always going to be teams winning more than us so we need to be strong on other things if we want people to actually care beyond the next result. 

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