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Administration. What are the facts?


KFCWoodstock

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Chris McMail claims we are headed for admin and there panic in the streets of Killie. 

We have been flirting with it for 10 yrs and some of might feel that we have been in a self-imposed administration for most of that time. Our company secretary has cut costs delayed payments to creditors sold assets and kept is barely alive for over a decade now. The sale of various assets (players) in January transfer windows have rescued us time and time again. In 2014 I was one of 3 new directors who in the absence of January transfer income bought shares that allowed us to trade until the season ticket income in June. In 2015 Billy Bowie and Robbie Muirhead saw us through the bleak winter and John Kiltie and another director loan plugged the annual spring revenue hole. All of this is public knowledge and explained in our last 2 published accounts. In January 2015 a draw at Ibrox gave us a replay that I have no doubt kept us trading to the summer. As we approach winter the tabloids tell us that Billy Bowie will not be plugging the hole this year. Are we to hope that Lee Clark was not allowed to spend the money from Josh, that it was squirrelled away for the winter? It is only hope that we have for we have no details on the mysterious cash flow projections of KFC. Will we be required to give away more assets in January. Maybe we will get a fair price for Kiltie or Coulibaly. Perhaps the glorious return of a team playing at Ibrox will be the saving grace our company secretary hails it as. We should however remember there was a Rangers in the league before and we were close to the brink even then. Surviving year after year on the brink. Is it sustainable?

 

Administration. A frightening word because it’s a complex issue. Rumour, conjecture and scare mongering make it even worse.

 

Perhaps we should make it our concern and we should know the facts because one day it might be a reality and the more prepared we are the better the odds of us being a Hearts and not a Gretna or a Rangers. 

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Interesting Woodstock but in reality every Club in Scotland ,except Celtic, is in effect fighting Administration. We have always relied on selling players to survive and probably always will be.

You were on the Board. What is the story. We are all told that BB and MJ hold exactly the same number of shares. We are told that MJ cannot be removed as a Director (due to 70% vote required ), so that will never happen.

Why can MJ still seem to dictate day to day decisions when on the face of it BB + 1 Share can out vote him.

Is big bad MJ just a smokescreen!

Please give me and many others some clarity

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Billy Bowie and the MJ sycophants.

Are we to believe that this group of men who are supposed to be hard-headed businessmen and also profess to being in most cases life-long Kilmarnock supporters didn't know that Michael Johnston was capable of devious behaviour ?

Are we to believe that they walked into a situation which they now cannot get out of with eyes wide open believing that they could make a difference and agreeing to the sham that is the Community Engagement Board ?

Well Mr. Woodstock you and your cronies propped up this dictatorship you have only yourselves to blame.

Adminstration, bring it on.

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We need to remember that people suffer when a company goes into administration.  Jobs are lost and other businesses who are owed money don't get paid in full.  It should not be taken lightly.

In the case of Kilmarnock Football Club Ltd, I would guess that the main creditors are:  The Park Hotel, Billy Bowie and Michael Johnston (assuming we are paying VAT, Income Tax, National Insurance and Rates regularly). 

If my assumptions are correct, why would BB or MJ seek administration?  They would lose out as creditors.

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I hold my hands up. I made a mistake investing, keeping the club afloat and MJ in power. I have never denied it. To claim I chased the prawn sandwich is a bit of stretch because I only actually made 3 games as a director. I honestly thoyght MJ would be reasonable. Ok I was stupid. However if you bought a season ticket in any of the past 10yrs you are guilty of the same charge by joint enterprise. so let's not fall out. We all had good intentions.

Admin will not be forced by our biggest creditors it will be forced by our biggest expenditure line. The payroll. If we do end up in an admin situation it will be because we are unable to pay the players at the end of a month. 

The interesting fact will be that we cannot under league rules under pay the players or the taxman. That means that we would be stuck in an admin situation until the admisntrator can get the club on an even keel and the creditors accept a CVA. Those creditors would be on the board so the adminstrator would have to terminate or suspend their directorship to avoid a conflict of interest. The only way to exit admin would be for the club to have an injection of capital to give a positive cash flow and that would only happen if MJ sold his shareholding. 

I am no expert but that sounds like a pretty s**tty conundrum for MJ and BB. Make a deal or allow liquidation and get zero, zip nothing. This is why I think we will never be liquidated and would be in and out of administration fairly quickly but at what cost?

Very few non playing staff would lose their job because there just aren't that many left after 10 yrs of pseudo administration and the disposal of the hotel and their staff to TPH ltd. the adminstrator need staff to keep trading.

we would be relegated. Yes definite.

we would have a much reduced playing staff that was based on the actual club revenue not the hope of a player sale, a Rangers replay or a director loan. As gates and sponsorship went up budget would go up.

MJ would be gone! Or we'd be dead and he'd have fk all after 12yrs

Can someone please tell me the downside of administration. I am over simplifying things and need someone like plunk it to educate me why it would be a terrible thing  because my gut tells me it would but my head can't work out why. Why am I not scared.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Don't know you Woodstock but you seem to have the best of intentions. I'm sure you and the other Directors actually thought you could tame M.J.however you learned like many others that it was not possible. The problem is he cares not a jot for our wonderful club,in fact as we all know he's not even a football fan. He's also not a reasonable man and is so sadly deluded that he's willing to risk £2 million to ride us into administration. He'll probably go down in history as the biggest Ayr United secret agent who brought Kilmarnock Football Club to its knees.

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There is something about all of this that is a bit odd and I wonder if the fans are being given the full facts 

Woodstock a former director is effectively saying that without injections of cash from directors or player sales the club would probably enter administration.

BB, JK and others have put money into the club in the recent past to keep it trading.

The one director that never invests as he allegedly has no money is MJ yet he holds the club and other directors to ransom by the looks of things.

Why is that? Is there a voting agreement between BB and MJ that we don't know about?

If BB is owed money via a directors loan he could force administration. To avoid difficulties with his other companies he could resign as a director from KFC and ask for his loan to be repaid. If the others stop propping up the club then MJ has nowhere to turn.

McMail or AN other could then buy the club from a CVA and keep the other directors involved and BB can come back on board.

Why aren't the other directors playing dirty? Why would they prefer to pay off MJ with £1.9 million?

Is it because they don't want to be the guys that put Killie into administration and probably relegate the club?

MJ is in an unbelievable position. He doesn't have the resources to invest in the club to keep it afloat yet he benefits from others investing while continuing in a role as a director because the other directors either can't or won't take action to remove him.

I think most Killie fans would accept admin if it removed MJ and if this is the only way to get rid if him the fans would accept why directors took the action they did to bring about administration by refusing to continue to support the finances.

If I was a director with MJ I'd be playing dirty and fighting fire with fire.

Looks like the other directors need to take advice from a solicitor or account about what they can do to remove MJ if they haven't done so already 

 

 

Edited by MarkyMark
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6 hours ago, aldo said:

have I missed something? who is chris mcmail?

Chris is a really nice guy, he has established his own successful business himself. Chris is very genuine and sincere, he has supported a lot of local charities and local boys clubs. I have sat up and listened to what he has said in the article. I think he like many is very frustrated with how the club he loves is being run. I would read what he has said and take note.  

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5 hours ago, KFCWoodstock said:

 

Can someone please tell me the downside of administration. I am over simplifying things and need someone like plunk it to educate me why it would be a terrible thing  because my gut tells me it would but my head can't work out why. Why am I not scared

 

I can see several issues:

* some employees will lose their jobs

* innocent creditors won't be paid in full

* if we were unable to exit administration it could lead to liquidation

* there is no guarantee administration would rid us of MJ

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29 minutes ago, killiekosmos said:

I can see several issues:

* some employees will lose their jobs

* innocent creditors won't be paid in full

* if we were unable to exit administration it could lead to liquidation

* there is no guarantee administration would rid us of MJ

The first two points make a deliberate path to administration wrong at all levels.

The third point, is a risk and it could be higher that we expect - taking club loyalty out the equation, being in a division lower down it  would make the club less attractive from an investment point of view.

Until the fourth point is addressed then it makes it an even bigger gamble.

Overall, I'm uneasy that people think administration is a good way forward.

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When a company goes into Administration, an Administrator is appointed and they assume control of the complete running of the company. Their role is to achieve one, or a combination, of the following;

-rescue the company as a going concern;

-look to ensure that secured creditors benefit from a better pay out than Liquidation would result in;

-realise any assets to distribute payments to preferred creditors.

At the point of Administration, all debts to unsecured creditors are frozen. If the Administrator is successful in satisfying fully the secured creditors they can return the running of the business to the owners who then deal with the unsecured creditors. If they are unsuccessful in this then part payments are offered, via court, and the unsecured creditors may receive nothing. Liquidation generally follows this unless a CVA can be agreed whereby these unsecured creditors accept a repayment programme. Creditors can take no action against the company during this time. They have to sit tight. 

A Pre-Pack is where the Administrator can look to sell the company, or parts of it, back to the owners or another party if best, before formal insolvency. Trade can continue under a new structure and new name. This is seen as a good option because it generally saves jobs, but unsecured creditors generally lose out. 

The thing to bear in mind here is that Administration will mean loss of jobs but, crucially, if the company comes through it, the structure of ownership of the business remains the same. It is a very poor tool to use if you seek to change the ownership. Not a good plan IMHO.

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I would also point out that KFC possibly doesn't have any secured creditors as there is no bank debt I am aware of. This means the preferred creditors are HMRC, which we are told are up to date. With MJ and BB both fairly significant creditors Administration would be 'interesting'. However,  it is not the best tool for you here Woodstock. 

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Either BB will cave in and inject more capital and or we will sell Kiltie or Coulibaly for peanuts in Jan which will give us just enough cash to see us through until Sevco come visiting again. The b@stard will hang on until the end of the season until the fans buy season tickets and the club get the next payment from the SPFL. The fat  b@stard lawyer will still be there next season and so it continues....

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4 minutes ago, Mojike and Bod said:

Either BB will cave in and inject more capital and or we will sell Kiltie or Coulibaly for peanuts in Jan which will give us just enough cash to see us through until Sevco come visiting again. The b@stard will hang on until the end of the season until the fans buy season tickets and the club get the next payment from the SPFL. The fat  b@stard lawyer will still be there next season and so it continues....

as much as none of us want to admit it this is closer to predicting our future than anything else and too many people have accepted it either by not going back or attending and accepting our position.both having been ground down by a greedy devious bastard.

I can only hope his fellow directors have some sort of plan, or can unearth a skeleton from his closet.

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Surely we can't be considering forcing admin as a vehicle for progress?

Apart from good people losing their jobs and local businesses getting shafted I also fear that the relegation would spell the end for a number of our Academy coaches and Academy teams.

At the moment Killie, is an attractive option for talented youth players -  A Premier league club that relies on bringing youth through to the first team, Academy players get to play and train on a premier league pitch/stadium, quality coaching and for boys from this area having this opportunity/setup on their doorstep is, in a lot of cases, a far better option than travelling to ToryGlen, Lennoxtown or Murray park.

I worry that should we be relegated, and with the potential that we may struggle to return to the top flight, even if our youth setup still existed in it's present form, I don't think that we'd be able to compete with the premier teams to attract the best talented youth players. 

I would hate us to be viewed as a club that you can always fall back on and end up at if it doesn't work out with the better teams, rather than a youth players first choice.

Of course this could all happen through relegation through poor performances but I'd find it easier to take if it were for footballing reasons rather than insolvency.

Can't an account be created and MJ's alleged buyout sum be put in that and frozen until 2019 and an agreement be written up/signed that in return for accessing this in 2019 he must step aside now, forfeit his voting rights and have no further involvement with boardroom matters?

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Administration. Here is a fact. The only person driving us towards it is your friend and mine, Michael Johnston. His one size fits all fiscal plan for us to be saved by The Rangers is stupid, bordering on insane. Their previous incarnation went completely tits up and they are still overspending like kids in a sweetie shop, or did that pass him by? Even at that, depending any anyone else is utter folly and even if they filled our ground twice that would still not be enough to see us in the black. He has blotted his copybook with the other directors and they are now seeking to get rid of him; the one man bankrolling the club right now is Billy Bowie and if he stops writing cheques (which he is perfectly entitled to do, and I won't be surprised when he does) then we are in deep financial trouble. This was made clear at the AGM by Jim Mitchell, who MJ apparently doesn't believe. He hasn't put a dime in himself, he has no intention of doing so either and no one in their right mind is going to get involved in this given the bag of shit Billy B's had to deal with and cash he's had to spend. End result? Absolutely Boracic lint by January and facing administration or having to sell off even more assets (if we've any left) or out top players like Kiltie and Coulibaly for whatever we can get. I think that plunkit has made clear that admin is not what anyone wants here and the only way we can ditch the doughnut is if we go fully bust or he decides he wants to leave. Let's persuade him that is his best option.

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