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Say Bye - To a Killie Pie?


baz

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58 minutes ago, CB said:

Regardlesss of the shoulds, or should nots, they do. And they weren't opposed at the time.

https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00002401973  https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK0002184177A Beers etc.

https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK0002184177B sports & foodstuffs etc.

 

The 1st one expires 2025. The other two are up for grabs in 2018. That'll be your next chance to oppose the IP.

You beat me to this - I had just searched it and then read the rest of the thread.
I had a bit of a convo with Baz on the old BookFace about this and rather than be long winded and copy it all on here, I'll just say that the 'current' catering deal needed to be improved in terms of how the club benefited and how the provision was delivered to the fans.  The product was and is fine but was built & based on the clubs name.  There seems to be some pretence that it was developed based on the nickname of the town - this to be frank is bulls**t.  Brownings trying to 'nick' it is the wrong thing for the company to do and if we personalise it, For JG to do as by his actions he is clearly depriving the club of a marketable product name which essentially existed before he was allowed to benefit from it by having the official supplier status.  I'd rather he & Brownings took the moral high ground and renamed the product if it isn't the official club pie.  The move for the name from Brownings means that I am on a health kick as of today.  I can't support a company who are acting to the detriment of my club, regardless of all the undoubtedly great stuff they have done in the past.

All that said, the board and MJ in particular have handled this (and much more) in a fashion I do not think is befitting of custodians of of Kilmarnock Football Club.  I have had enough of feeling embarrassed by MJ's antics and the Brave New World of the new board has been a damp squib interspersed with some great wins in the early days but all the good goes unnoticed because they won't / can't deal with the main issue which is MJ.  I've defended him in the past but he needs to be neutered or removed for us to move forward.  The board need to show their mettle if they wish anymore latitude or backing - my patience is at an end.

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We slag off the club when they don't protect their assets by signing up our young players on a long term deal

we slag off the club when they protect their assets by signing legal documents in ownership of their brand

one rule for one and another rule for another?

im confused 

2 sides to every story maybe one for the AGM as opposed to constant negativity sprouting up when we need the support

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13 minutes ago, Hawkeye the Gnu said:

What's an AGM?

Oh yes. I remember now having attended the last one a long long time ago.

Aye, It's the suggestion that it might be 'Annual' thats confusing you - Shocking behaviour by the Board.
No wonder trust has been eroded 

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Sorry Baz but I think you are wrong on this.

IMO Killie Pies existed before Brownings and were developed in conjunction with WW Wales and the club.

Would Brownings have had a Killie Pie without their association with the club? As I said before, Killie Pies would not be where they are today without Brownings but from a legal position the club are probably correct.

What's the outcome of this going to be? Brownings will change the name and continue to produce their tasty pies, quite possibly expand the Brownings brand, make money from it all and curtail their sponsorship and exposure that the club currently benefits from.

It will be interesting to hear our Chairman's statement when the eventual press reports come to pass.

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I suppose it was to be expected but some of you completely missing the point here. It's not about the f**king pie, as much as you would clearly love it to be....that would make for some better sarcasm other than the poor attempts that have gone before. It's about treating local business people like commodities and treating the club purely as a business when a football club is so much more than that and needs to be handled accordingly. It's about losing yet another relationship with a local business, and one who has contributed far more than has been made public because they care more about the club than the good publicity....why do you think we lose so many staff from the club? The turnover is unbelievable, no one can work under those conditions as their job is made impossible. Not much being said about John Collins jacking it in, clearly no comedy value in that.  It would be great if all we had to moan about was the pies falling apart, the problem is it should never have gotten to this stage and this will ultimately cost us more than just legal fees in the grand scheme of things. I appreciate that looking at the big picture has never been the forte of some on here, but the failure to do so at board room level is why we find ourselves in the predicament we currently do...fighting at the arse end of the table, player budget cut every single year, hotel sold off, bungalow sold off, car park sold off, literally still millions in debt despite the bank taking a massive hit which strangely involved our chairman at the time gaining 40% of the hotel for himself with the rest going to a guy he hadn't met six weeks previously (hands off deal my erchie), crowds disappearing faster than any other club in the SPFL, I could go on but the deficiencies have already been catalogued and yet still there are those who actually believe that the club, or the board, can do no wrong. I don't think you are happy clappers, I just think you are kidding yourself on and are living in denial. Years of being treated as nothing more than a necessary evil has left us downtrodden, disillusioned and with no faith in ourselves to do anything about it.

Apologies if this sounds serious at all, I appreciate its not cool to admit to giving a f**k (or to say cool) but occasionally the hilarity is just tiresome. See if you don't give a rats arse about these things, go back to your politics boards and pretend you have all the answers...that's always good for a chuckle.

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3 hours ago, Killiesub said:

Can we expect Baz in the papers tomorrow with a pie in his hand?

I know I shouldn't rise to this but why would you expect that? This is what happens when you put your head above the parapet and speak about about what you think is wrong...folk try to tear you down at every turn. While we argue and bicker among ourselves about who has a right to say what...they laugh it up and continue to do what the hell they want. Okay so you don't agree with my points, I got that after your second post and I don't mind in the least getting involved in debate...but if you want to continue putting sly digs about me on here then please put your photo up and tell us a proper name so I at least know who I am addressing.

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Some folk just don't get that every time we burn a bridge with a local business, there's one less route out of our current predicament.  It's not about copyright law or the quality of pies or if there wasn't soft drinks available in the tea bars. It's about reciprocal relationships, good faith, respect. They don't have to put money in the club, there's plenty of other things they could spend it on. And they will if we continue to treat them like s**t.  It's not rocket surgery. 

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The problem here is the lack of communication from the board.This is no way to treat a company that has put money into teh club when others were walking away. I agree that the club need to look for the best deal they can,it makes business sense, but how many more companies are they going to piss off with the way they do things?
 

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For me, it's simple. "Killie" is the town. If JG wants to keep the Killie pie name, he should be allowed to do so. Brownings, based in Killie, have spent their own cash developing, marketing and producing it. The same goes for all their other tasty treats.

Off the field, our club is an embarrassment. Any responsible "community club" would be jumping through hoops to maintain a reciprocal relationship with one of the few remaining local employers while enjoying the obvious net benefits.

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Well, I look forward to buying the "new" Brownings Kilmarnock Pie (previously sold as the Award winning Killie Pie from 19xx to 2016), in the various supermarkets and other outlets that Brownings supply, thus spreading the Killie brand nationwide.  Let's see the Park Hotel do that.

Contrast this with the Killie livery on BB's lorries, also aimed at spreading (no pun intended) the Killie brand nationwide.

Hypocrisy and self-interest on a grand scale?

I hope, that should MJ & BB's Club win in court (who's paying the court fees?), that there is enough room on the packaging!

In answer to those who go on about getting rid of MJ, we had our chance around the time of NAPM, but too few fans supported moves to get rid.

He is going nowhere.  The only two things that will remove him are a 7-figure sum or administration.

 

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I would prefer that we use a local company employing local people, nearly everybody would, but that isn't the way most people use their budget unless they have unlimited funds. Until I know who will supply the catering at Rugby Park I'm not prepared to condemn the move away from Brownings.

Football fans are traditionalists but how many of our children/grandchildren would want a pie as opposed to a slice of pizza ? The club have to offer more variety than is currently available to eat and drink. Yes, I enjoyed my steak and haggis pie and Bovril at the Celtic game but we have to attract a younger support too and the current catering doesn't offer a wide enough choice.

I always call the town Kilmarnock and the team Killie. I think most people tend to link the "Killie Pie" with the football team. Anyway, Beth Brownings bakers in Kilwinning sell "The Buffs" pie so can't be mistaken for the town.

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16 hours ago, baz said:

I suppose it was to be expected but some of you completely missing the point here. It's not about the f**king pie, as much as you would clearly love it to be....that would make for some better sarcasm other than the poor attempts that have gone before. It's about treating local business people like commodities and treating the club purely as a business when a football club is so much more than that and needs to be handled accordingly. It's about losing yet another relationship with a local business, and one who has contributed far more than has been made public because they care more about the club than the good publicity....why do you think we lose so many staff from the club? The turnover is unbelievable, no one can work under those conditions as their job is made impossible. Not much being said about John Collins jacking it in, clearly no comedy value in that.  It would be great if all we had to moan about was the pies falling apart, the problem is it should never have gotten to this stage and this will ultimately cost us more than just legal fees in the grand scheme of things. I appreciate that looking at the big picture has never been the forte of some on here, but the failure to do so at board room level is why we find ourselves in the predicament we currently do...fighting at the arse end of the table, player budget cut every single year, hotel sold off, bungalow sold off, car park sold off, literally still millions in debt despite the bank taking a massive hit which strangely involved our chairman at the time gaining 40% of the hotel for himself with the rest going to a guy he hadn't met six weeks previously (hands off deal my erchie), crowds disappearing faster than any other club in the SPFL, I could go on but the deficiencies have already been catalogued and yet still there are those who actually believe that the club, or the board, can do no wrong. I don't think you are happy clappers, I just think you are kidding yourself on and are living in denial. Years of being treated as nothing more than a necessary evil has left us downtrodden, disillusioned and with no faith in ourselves to do anything about it.

Apologies if this sounds serious at all, I appreciate its not cool to admit to giving a f**k (or to say cool) but occasionally the hilarity is just tiresome. See if you don't give a rats arse about these things, go back to your politics boards and pretend you have all the answers...that's always good for a chuckle.

It absolutely isn't about the pie - you are 100% correct.  There are two strands here:  The piss poor way the board and club treat local businesses, customers and even their own employees and the fact that regardless of whether he is seen as a good guy or not, JG / Brownings have opened up litigation by trying to challenge the clubs ownership of a standing trade mark.
Both positions are wrong.  I'd have way more respect for JG / Brownings if he didn't see shafting the club of an asset as a reasonable way forward.
The club were rightly slaughtered for the asset stripping of recent years but because someone seen as a 'good guy' wants this particular asset it's ok this time?
Smacks of hypocrisy in my book....

The bigger issue is that despite the "New World" promised to us by the "One Person - One Vote" board and despite the fact we've largely been patient & supportive we yet again find ourselves arguing about a s**tstorm that has MJ's name writ large all over it.
We were promised that he would be sidelined / neutered and the club would be inclusive and community centric in its dealings.  I can't see change at a pace I find acceptable.  I can't see transparency of any sort, let alone the legally required sort that entitles shareholders to an annual update.

As far as it goes for "Not being cool to be seen to give a flying f**k", It seems that it's ok to give one providing you agree on each and every point you chaps make but if anyone else dares to step off the approved line they are ridiculed, belittled and insulted for their troubles (apologies for taking over your FB feed last night btw)

You'll probably find that there is more that we agree on as a group of fans than we disagree on but if the chat remains divisive, only one man benefits IMO.

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I don't think the issue in the long run is about the pies. It is about the dismantling of the opposition to MJs  running of the club. He appears to take great pride in destroying anybody that has a great infinity for the well being of the club.  Its as if he is saying I can destroy KFC and no one can stop me.

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2 hours ago, Tonzer said:

It absolutely isn't about the pie - you are 100% correct.  There are two strands here:  The piss poor way the board and club treat local businesses, customers and even their own employees and the fact that regardless of whether he is seen as a good guy or not, JG / Brownings have opened up litigation by trying to challenge the clubs ownership of a standing trade mark.
Both positions are wrong.  I'd have way more respect for JG / Brownings if he didn't see shafting the club of an asset as a reasonable way forward.
The club were rightly slaughtered for the asset stripping of recent years but because someone seen as a 'good guy' wants this particular asset it's ok this time?
Smacks of hypocrisy in my book....

It would only be hypocrisy if I saw the Killie Pie name as an asset...like the bungalow, or the car park, or the hotel...but I don't so ergo I am not being hypocritical. As far as I am concerned Brownings are doing far more for the club in their marketing of the Killie Pie which is their product that includes our (and the town's) name than the club do in return...which is what really? What is this asset that people want to buy so much...a name? Some of you consider Killie to be synonymous with the football club, and I don't disagree with that, but it was also used as the name of the town long before 1869 and as I said elsewhere, Killie is not officially the club's name either. I think the courts will make the final decision on this and we will, rightly or wrongly, have to accept that.

As far as I'm concerned its a symbiotic relationship which both parties gain from which will now be shattered in the scramble for more money because the divots in charge are clueless on the marketing front and they can't find any new ways to fleece the fans who get hit in the pocket time after time and get nothing but heartache in return. I maintain that it should never have got to this stage and wouldn't if we hadn't been desperate for cash due to failures elsewhere and been reliant on a man who would have trouble having a relationship with his own hand...then again.

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It seems that it's ok to give one [a flying f**k] providing you agree on each and every point you chaps make but if anyone else dares to step off the approved line they are ridiculed, belittled and insulted for their troubles

Who exactly are "you chaps"? Are you pigeon holing everyone who doesn't agree with your point of view per chance? Is that not just a wee bit hypocritical T? I have certainly not ridiculed, belittled or insulted anyone other than those I hold responsible for this sorry state of affairs. I have debated any point made and countered with opinions not insults and only drew that line at those who would rather hide behind their keyboards and make snide comments as opposed to representing their own views. I heartily agree with everything else you posted about and I'm quite happy to accept that we can agree on some issues and disagree on others without falling out or calling each other tumshies!

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LOL - Last point readily accepted (as is the hand quip - That did actually have me nodding & laughing)
I'll ask one last rhetorical question - Do you think that Brownings attempting to take the trademark from the club is the right thing to do and in the clubs best interests? (That might be two)
It's pretty much the only thing we disagree on here.

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