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Indy Ref 2


Mclean07

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3 hours ago, Zorro said:

It's not often you get something right, but credit where it's due, you've finally managed to understand the basic facts. 

And speaking of giving credit where it's due- Corbyn gave May a right shoeing at PMQ's there, that must piss you right off. 

I did think your denial of the "hold" was reminiscent of the move of DiCanio from Celtic to Sheffield Wednesday when Jock Brown stated "he has not been sold but merely traded" for £4.2million pounds!!! :6::2:

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3 hours ago, Zorro said:

It's not often you get something right, but credit where it's due, you've finally managed to understand the basic facts. 

And speaking of giving credit where it's due- Corbyn gave May a right shoeing at PMQ's there, that must piss you right off. 

" oh, Jeremy Corbyn "..........

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A good chance Scotland, alone in the UK will official go into recession soon. This despite much poorer regions in rUK subsidising us with a nine billing pound transfer every year. What an affront. Now that Sturgeon has half kicked her Indy obsession into the long grass, she could maybe be as kind as to concentrate on the day job she was elected to do, instead of making us all poorer. Can you imagine the SNP bridging the fifteen billion gap in our finances if we were independent? Oh, I forgot, they're suddenly going to come up with a plan that gives us Chinese style growth rates. 

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Folk voted for "pooling & sharing" but still not happy... sseeesh! 9_9

The same report said the economy will still grow over the year as a whole, and possibly more quickly than last year, but that was missed from your 'analysis'.

With global oil prices virtually halved, Brexit on the horizon and Inward investment in Scotland hitting a record high, can you describe in detail what you think the Scottish Goverment should do?

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1 hour ago, Mclean07 said:

I se the Nats voted against the public sector pay limits at Westminster, where they can't stop it, but voted for it at Holyrood where they can. 

Scottish nurses are paid £300 a year more than their counterparts in England, because the Scottish government respects the recommendations of the independent pay review, while England doesn't. 

I remember a time when Labour supporters would have berated the Scottish conservatives for voting against both. Now it's all about point scoring against the snp and even encouraging Labour supporters to vote conservative. What's Kezia had to say about the Conservatives bribe to the DUP? Why isn't she having a go at them for screw Scotland out of £2.9 billion in additional funding? We both know why, because the snp would be able to do a lot of good with that money and make her party even more irrelevant in Scotland. 

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19 minutes ago, Zorro said:

Scottish nurses are paid £300 a year more than their counterparts in England, because the Scottish government respects the recommendations of the independent pay review, while England doesn't. 

I remember a time when Labour supporters would have berated the Scottish conservatives for voting against both. Now it's all about point scoring against the snp and even encouraging Labour supporters to vote conservative. What's Kezia had to say about the Conservatives bribe to the DUP? Why isn't she having a go at them for screw Scotland out of £2.9 billion in additional funding? We both know why, because the snp would be able to do a lot of good with that money and make her party even more irrelevant in Scotland. 

" Point scoring " :) You crack me up, Paddy........

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1 hour ago, RAG said:

And uses the exact same "nothing has changed" line as Davidson - unlikely two party leaders would tweet the exact same sentence - except for unionists in Scotland.

 

They should stop the sham and all amalgamate into the Scottish unionist party. The only reason they don't is because it allows them more voices in any debate. 

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2 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

" Point scoring " :) You crack me up, Paddy........

Why else would Scottish Labour be quiet? £2.9 billion would go a long way to getting those extra teachers and nurses you're always moaning about. Here's there chance to stand up and show the benefits of the union; it's an open goal, and instead they choose to whine about Scottish nurses being paid more than their English colleagues. Shameful. 

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12 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

" Point scoring " :) You crack me up, Paddy........

Funnily enough Ruth's silence matches that of her besto Scottish Labour leader. 

May strikes up a deal worth that amount of money with a party who stand against her entire way of life and are not ashamed to be vocal about it.

no mention of it though from her she's too busy banging on about Indy Ref 2. 

Shes got a bit of a neck banging on about Sturgeon focusing on the day job as far as anyone can see all she wants to talk about is the one subject over and over again. 

Meanwhile her party in London have went cap in hand to the loyalist supported homophobic party from Northern Ireland and handed over money that could go a long way in tackling the issues that Key is greeting about 

the two of them are like a poor tag team from the WWE 

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17 minutes ago, Zorro said:

They should stop the sham and all amalgamate into the Scottish unionist party. The only reason they don't is because it allows them more voices in any debate. 

Hopefully as Scots Tories and Labour gradually drift away from their HQ in London voters may see this too.

Is no question Dugdale and Davidson, (if you listen to what they say) have more in common with each other, than their respective party leaders in London.

Dugdales wee spat with Corbyn over JC being "totally fine" with indyref2 being in my mind.

I can't understand why the pro EU Lib Dems would so avidly follow this Scots unionist position, except they too are Scottish Unionists.

I think the same splintering (from a London line) may have occurred in Ireland in early 20c - I'll need to wikipedia up on that!

 

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5 minutes ago, RAG said:

Hopefully as Scots Tories and Labour gradually drift away from their HQ in London voters may see this too.

Is no question Dugdale and Davidson, (if you listen to what they say) have more in common with each other, than their respective party leaders in London.

Dugdales wee spat with Corbyn over JC being "totally fine" with indyref2 being in my mind.

I can't understand why the pro EU Lib Dems would so avidly follow this Scots unionist position, except they too are Scottish Unionists.

I think the same splintering (from a London line) may have occurred in Ireland in early 20c - I'll need to wikipedia up on that!

 

I think if more people watched First ministers questions, they'd see the unionists for what they are. Every week it's the same coordinated attack; Scotsman, daily record, daily mail run an #SNPbad story, wee Ruth puts on her pug dog attack face and has first go on the issue, Ruth is up next with her nursery school teacher patronising act, the weary willie tries to link the issue to mental health in some tenuous way. It's so obviously scripted and they seem incapable of thinking on their feet. Even when their questions are answered they carry on with the next question as if it hasn't been. 

Perhaps the answer is for the SNP to split ( left, centre, right) so they can target policies at individual constituencies and then form a grand coalition of independence parties to form a Holyrood government. 

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17 minutes ago, Zorro said:

Perhaps the answer is for the SNP to split ( left, centre, right) so they can target policies at individual constituencies and then form a grand coalition of independence parties to form a Holyrood government. 

I think thats exactly what the unionists would want.  Look at the RISE / Cat Boyd thing where they were all over the telly, promo'd beyond belief for where they were at, at the time.  What your suggesting would inevitably dilute the nationalist vote into less representation. As nothing in this countries proper PR, look at the effect greens standing had on SNP seats.

If you were looking at off the cuff radical rebranding, I'd do so in opposite direction - amalgamate to form a YES party.

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4 minutes ago, RAG said:

I think thats exactly what the unionists would want.  Look at the RISE / Cat Boyd thing where they were all over the telly, promo'd beyond belief for where they were at, at the time.  What your suggesting would inevitably dilute the nationalist vote into less representation. As nothing in this countries proper PR, look at the effect greens standing had on SNP seats.

If you were looking at off the cuff radical rebranding, I'd do so in opposite direction - amalgamate to form a YES party.

I'd agree on a YES approach to the forthcoming referendum, with the SNP being just one of the voices. However, I feel the SNP are trying to be all things to everyone in elections and it leaves them exposed to attacks from all sides; not left wing enough for centre right labour, too left wing for far right tories, not vague or wishy-washy enough for liberals. The SNP or Scottish independence alliance as I would call them, could stand a socialist in areas faced with high unemployment/deprivation etc and a more right wing candidate in rural areas. The final makeup of elected candidates could shape the direction the alliance took over the parliamentary term. 

Cat Boyd could be a major asset in the independence movement, but I believe people just saw RISE as an SSP rebranding and despite Tommy Sheridan's many flaws, I think politically engaged people prefer him to the colleagues who stabbed him in the back. For that reason, I believe anything associated with the SSP is doomed to failure. 

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1 hour ago, Zorro said:

Cat Boyd could be a major asset in the independence movement, but I believe people just saw RISE as an SSP rebranding and despite Tommy Sheridan's many flaws, I think politically engaged people prefer him to the colleagues who stabbed him in the back. For that reason, I believe anything associated with the SSP is doomed to failure. 

There could be a nugget of truth there as there is a void on the nationalist left where the SSP once were.  That was before the SNP were in government, the two surely aren't unrelated?

I just think its a bit strange the Cat Boyd one.  She had so many appearances on the BBC and I've never ever heard anyone on QT say they didn't bother to vote, like her admission in EU referendum.

Fast forward a year and nationalists losing votes to thin air. Why?  Cos all the radical nationalists are too busy partying in Ibiza or drinking fizz out a welly at Glastonbury to bother with voting in June.

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I can't speak for other areas but in my area it appears complacency or voter apathy had a major part to play. The SNP vote was down by almost exactly the same amount as the voter turnout had dropped by. 

Thats why I think an independence alliance would be better than a single party. All these identikit politicians, singing from the same hymn sheet can't possibly sell a message to everyone. Using Cat Boyd as an example, she'd be an ideal candidate for some areas of Glasgow but would be wasted in an area like Aberdeen. There you need a small c conservative nationalist selling the business opportunities rather than the tax the rich message from Boyd. 

Having read Boyd's explanation on why she didn't vote in the EU referendum, I respect her view that- "It was about a long-running split in British Toryism between free markets and closed borders, sprinkled with lies and xenophobia. Neither campaign showed any sign of reaching out intellectually, so essentially we had a choice between neoliberal Tory and racist Tory.", but disagree with her conclusion that abstention was the correct decision. I also disagree with her views on the EU and many other issues. That said I'd rather have her in the Scottish parliament than many of the unionist jokers. I think the parliament would be a much better place if it was populated by smaller groups and consensus politics was the name of the game. That was supposed to be the model we aspired to, instead it's become adversarial and imo this is holding us back 

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1 hour ago, Zorro said:

instead it's become adversarial and imo this is holding us back 

They're all part of the scrum - to paraphrase Boris Johnson of all people!

its where you see gaps, places where that egg shaped ball could be taken over the line, thats the interesting bit.

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