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2 hours ago, C4mmy31 said:

Have you ever considered councilling @Zorro for your OCD?

None of the symptoms you highlighted would indicate I was suffering from OCD. I'll just take it as further proof that you look at the available evidence and arrive at the wrong conclusion. 

Either that or you know the argument that the pitch doesn't effect the home form, makes no sense and have decided to attack me instead. In which case...

 

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I rest my case........

Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) affects people differently, but usually causes a particular pattern of thoughts and behaviours.

This pattern has four main steps:

Obsession – where an unwanted, intrusive and often distressing thought, image or urge repeatedly enters your mind.

Anxiety – the obsession provokes a feeling of intense anxiety or distress.

Compulsion – repetitive behaviours or mental acts that you feel driven to perform as a result of the anxiety and distress caused by the obsession.

Temporary relief – the compulsive behaviour temporarily relieves, but the obsession and anxiety soon returns, causing the cycle to begin again.

It's possible to just have obsessive thoughts or just have compulsions, but most people with OCD will experience both

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1 hour ago, C4mmy31 said:

I rest my case........

Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) affects people differently, but usually causes a particular pattern of thoughts and behaviours.

This pattern has four main steps:

Obsession – where an unwanted, intrusive and often distressing thought, image or urge repeatedly enters your mind.

Anxiety – the obsession provokes a feeling of intense anxiety or distress.

Compulsion – repetitive behaviours or mental acts that you feel driven to perform as a result of the anxiety and distress caused by the obsession.

Temporary relief – the compulsive behaviour temporarily relieves, but the obsession and anxiety soon returns, causing the cycle to begin again.

It's possible to just have obsessive thoughts or just have compulsions, but most people with OCD will experience both

I can understand why you'd like to label me with this condition, you feel it would in some way validate your opinion. However, the real person with serious mental issues in this conversation is the one who came on to gloat about his own team being beaten by Motherwell. Have you considered counselling for that? Now it just looks like you're trying to close down the debate because it looks awfully like you got things spectacularly wrong. 

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@Zorro relax mate. Go for a pint. Take the dogs a walk. Spend some quality time with the family. Take a day or so away from this particular thread and chill out. 

Come back and reflect later once you've calmed down a little. You're going over and over the same argument because others won't agree with you. You're entitled to your opinion and you've been given a platform to make it. Others are entitled to theirs too. They've given reasons why they don't agree with you. Let it go.

Failing that...if we all post agreeing you are completely right and that the only reason we are s**te at home is the pitch and that Jamie McDonald is terrible will you let it go?

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2 hours ago, Zorro said:

I can understand why you'd like to label me with this condition, you feel it would in some way validate your opinion. However, the real person with serious mental issues in this conversation is the one who came on to gloat about his own team being beaten by Motherwell. Have you considered counselling for that? Now it just looks like you're trying to close down the debate because it looks awfully like you got things spectacularly wrong. 

When did this figment of your imagination happen? I asked you how your theory of Killie being better on grass held up after the 2-0 defeat to Motherwell, probably our worst performance of the season so far, which convieniently you glossed over and failed to answer, I'd assume as it doesn't sit well with your agenda.

This will be my final reply to you as not only are you extremely tedious, but making up stuff in your head now in an attempt to prove a point ..... 

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1 hour ago, livvy said:

@Zorro relax mate. Go for a pint. Take the dogs a walk. Spend some quality time with the family. Take a day or so away from this particular thread and chill out. 

Come back and reflect later once you've calmed down a little. You're going over and over the same argument because others won't agree with you. You're entitled to your opinion and you've been given a platform to make it. Others are entitled to theirs too. They've given reasons why they don't agree with you. Let it go.

Failing that...if we all post agreeing you are completely right and that the only reason we are s**te at home is the pitch and that Jamie McDonald is terrible will you let it go?

You know I'm right about both. Some people are just too proud to admit when they got it wrong. Take @C4mmy31, comes on gloating after a defeat against Motherwell, suggesting the fact the pitch was like a bowling green, completely blows the pitch theory out the water, but ends up looking pretty stupid a few days later when we turn in our best performance of the season ON GRASS! Hey but rather than take it on the chin, he does exactly the same as you and resorts to personal attacks. I can assure you I'm well rested, the dog gets three walks a day, my sons just back from Italy so I do intend spending time with him, but I'll still have time to laugh at the people with out the brains to evaluate the evidence and come to the only logical conclusion. 

As I keep pointing out, different players, different managers, different tactics, different conditions and we're still crap at home but better away. The only factors which are constant are the surfaces. You don't have to agree. You don't have to read it. You don't get to dictate which threads I post on. Deal with it. 

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I'm going to stop after this post because I'm now genuinely concerned for your well being.

I don't agree with you and my reasoning is that the pitch is the same for both teams. You don't agree with me and your reasoning is that it becomes more of a hindrance over time.

That's fine. You've made your point. I've taken it on board. But I have a different viewpoint. We could repeat this eternally or accept we have differing views and move on. You have an unhealthy obsession with believing that everyone should agree with you and a bizaree inclination that anyone who doesn't is a fool. 

Life is less linear than that mate. Other people have a reasoned differing opinion. Let it go. Stop obsessing over it every week you get a chance to prive your right. I won't discuss this any further but just take a wee step back from your keyboard and have a deep breath. Life has more important things than this.

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32 minutes ago, livvy said:

I'm going to stop after this post because I'm now genuinely concerned for your well being.

I don't agree with you and my reasoning is that the pitch is the same for both teams. You don't agree with me and your reasoning is that it becomes more of a hindrance over time.

That's fine. You've made your point. I've taken it on board. But I have a different viewpoint. We could repeat this eternally or accept we have differing views and move on. You have an unhealthy obsession with believing that everyone should agree with you and a bizaree inclination that anyone who doesn't is a fool. 

Life is less linear than that mate. Other people have a reasoned differing opinion. Let it go. Stop obsessing over it every week you get a chance to prive your right. I won't discuss this any further but just take a wee step back from your keyboard and have a deep breath. Life has more important things than this.

I'm not obsessing about it, I'm replying to people who are so obsessed about it that they reply to my every post on the subject, try and soothe their bashed egos with a plethora of red cards and feel the need to try and close down all debate on the subject. The playground bullies are trying to takeover, you get nowhere by acceding to their demands.. If you disagree with them, you, rather than your argument, is attacked. It demonstrates their limited intelligence imo. 

 I also have genuine concerns for their mental wellbeing and the physical safety of their loved ones. If this is how they react to a stranger disagreeing with them on the internet, how must they react behind closed doors?

Edited by Zorro
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2 hours ago, Zorro said:

As I keep pointing out, different players, different managers, different tactics, different conditions and we're still crap at home but better away. The only factors which are constant are the surfaces. 

But that's not the case. The surfaces have not been constant. As pointed out by John Livingston, for several seasons we had a better away record than home record while playing on grass both home and away. 

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23 minutes ago, historyman said:

But that's not the case. The surfaces have not been constant. As pointed out by John Livingston, for several seasons we had a better away record than home record while playing on grass both home and away. 

Mere statistical outliers, easily explained. Give the years and ill explain why. 

 

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If supporting KFC who are playing on an artificial surface bothers you so much as does some of the playing personnel we have at the club just now why don't you go and support another team who p!ay on a grass surface with better players who match up to your expectations and leave us to support our team in peace?

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17 minutes ago, Bbk said:

If supporting KFC who are playing on an artificial surface bothers you so much as does some of the playing personnel we have at the club just now why don't you go and support another team who p!ay on a grass surface with better players who match up to your expectations and leave us to support our team in peace?

It you're so against Killie doing better by having better players and playing on a surface which doesn't wreck our home form, why don't you just go and support another team who play on plastic with worse players and leave us to support our team in peace?

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30 minutes ago, Bbk said:

If supporting KFC who are playing on an artificial surface bothers you so much as does some of the playing personnel we have at the club just now why don't you go and support another team who p!ay on a grass surface with better players who match up to your expectations and leave us to support our team in peace?

 

9 minutes ago, Zorro said:

It you're so against Killie doing better by having better players and playing on a surface which doesn't wreck our home form, why don't you just go and support another team who play on plastic with worse players and leave us to support our team in peace?

We are all Killie fans, we all have our opinions on the pitch,players,management and the board and we should all be allowed to express these opinions on this forum without personnel attack from other posters who disagree with our opinions. So lets all just hug it out  :4::38::22:

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The surface is s**te. Football should be played on grass but financially the carpet benefits the club. LM has stated that the atmosphere within the stadium (which is FAR to big for us) is non existent and could be beneficial to other clubs when they play us. That could be the case, it must be like a friendly game for us every time we play at home because it is so quiet. I remember the old ground when in some games we had a three figure attendance but still created a bit of noise. I don't know the solution to the s**te home form, I wish I did, but the lack of atmosphere might have something to do with it. Get shot of the all seated stadium and bring back standing!!! :2:

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2 hours ago, Killie1970 said:

The surface is s**te. Football should be played on grass but financially the carpet benefits the club. LM has stated that the atmosphere within the stadium (which is FAR to big for us) is non existent and could be beneficial to other clubs when they play us. That could be the case, it must be like a friendly game for us every time we play at home because it is so quiet. I remember the old ground when in some games we had a three figure attendance but still created a bit of noise. I don't know the solution to the s**te home form, I wish I did, but the lack of atmosphere might have something to do with it. Get shot of the all seated stadium and bring back standing!!! :2:

Sitting/standing, it's all the same. Away fans don't have any problems singing or chanting, even when it's only 100 odd County fans. The problem is sitting surrounded by fans who don't sing or chant and feeling constrained by their silence. Having open season-tickets for the noisier East stand would allow fans who want to give the team vocal encouragement to congregate together rather than being spread out as they are just now. It might not work initially, but once fans have sussed out where the singers/chanters go I think it would improve the atmosphere at games.

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1 hour ago, Wrangodog said:

Sitting/standing, it's all the same. Away fans don't have any problems singing or chanting, even when it's only 100 odd County fans. The problem is sitting surrounded by fans who don't sing or chant and feeling constrained by their silence. Having open season-tickets for the noisier East stand would allow fans who want to give the team vocal encouragement to congregate together rather than being spread out as they are just now. It might not work initially, but once fans have sussed out where the singers/chanters go I think it would improve the atmosphere at games.

The flaw with this is there are still plenty of open sections just now. Why don't the singers congregate in the bottom corner of the east stand next to the Moffat next game? Plenty of room there

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2 hours ago, azertyuiop said:

The flaw with this is there are still plenty of open sections just now. Why don't the singers congregate in the bottom corner of the east stand next to the Moffat next game? Plenty of room there

The other big flaw is so many seats being marked as reserved when they are clearly no longer. That really needs sorting out.
Conceding I'm now only an occasional visitor, four or five of us will make our way up from Dumfries for a game.
Finding seats together is a nightmare for fear that at five to three someone will arrive claiming you're in their seat.
Might not seem a lot to some but it's another wee turn-off for walk-up fans.

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9 hours ago, Killie1970 said:

The surface is s**te. Football should be played on grass but financially the carpet benefits the club. LM has stated that the atmosphere within the stadium (which is FAR to big for us) is non existent and could be beneficial to other clubs when they play us. That could be the case, it must be like a friendly game for us every time we play at home because it is so quiet. I remember the old ground when in some games we had a three figure attendance but still created a bit of noise. I don't know the solution to the s**te home form, I wish I did, but the lack of atmosphere might have something to do with it. Get shot of the all seated stadium and bring back standing!!! :2:

Can you give a Net figure for the financial benefit to the club? I keep seeing this trotted out, but how much are we actually talking about and would it be cancelled out by the extra prize money for finishing a couple of places higher up the league? Iirc we used to budget for a seventh place finish and that's been downgraded to tenth. Is that the bottom line, the pitch allows us to aim lower in the league?

The poor atmosphere is as a result of MJ's decisions and failing to engage with the local community, rather than anything to do with the size of the stadium imho. There have been plenty games since the stadium was built when the atmosphere was every bit as good as it is at the teams around us. Pricing should be revisited and I'm a long time advocate of making the East stand open seating. However, as with the pitch; too many have an irrational attachment to a piece of plastic. 

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2 hours ago, Philo said:

The other big flaw is so many seats being marked as reserved when they are clearly no longer. That really needs sorting out.
Conceding I'm now only an occasional visitor, four or five of us will make our way up from Dumfries for a game.
Finding seats together is a nightmare for fear that at five to three someone will arrive claiming you're in their seat.
Might not seem a lot to some but it's another wee turn-off for walk-up fans.

Most of them probably aren't even reserved anymore too. Reserved in the late 90s, when we were good. Not used since 2004.

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The stadium is about 8,000 - 10,000 seats too big. For anyone who's not a midget it's difficult to sit down if there's someone in the seat directly in front of you, or that's the case in the east stand anyway. 

It's not embarrassing to have a small stadium which can get reasonably well filled but turning up to a stadium where 3 stands could be shut and the other still not filled doesn't do anything for the atmosphere. It's like queens park at Hampden on a smaller scale.

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3 minutes ago, Dieter's Heeder said:

The stadium is about 8,000 - 10,000 seats too big. For anyone who's not a midget it's difficult to sit down if there's someone in the seat directly in front of you, or that's the case in the east stand anyway. 

It's not embarrassing to have a small stadium which can get reasonably well filled but turning up to a stadium where 3 stands could be shut and the other still not filled doesn't do anything for the atmosphere. It's like queens park at Hampden on a smaller scale.

It's a bit better in the Frank Beattie. But, yes. Having sat in the East & Moffat before, you really need to be a wee smout to be comfy. That's what I put in thingmy's survey for his degree.

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8 hours ago, azertyuiop said:

The flaw with this is there are still plenty of open sections just now. Why don't the singers congregate in the bottom corner of the east stand next to the Moffat next game? Plenty of room there

A central position in the East stand is better. At the moment some singing/chanting starts nearer to the Chadwick but doesn't filter to the other end of the stand. Before we became all-seated it was the area below the TV gantry and then it was next to the segregation fence, both central areas where the fans gathered. The old ground could be half empty but it was sometimes still a struggle to get to that area. 

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5 hours ago, Philo said:

The other big flaw is so many seats being marked as reserved when they are clearly no longer. That really needs sorting out.
Conceding I'm now only an occasional visitor, four or five of us will make our way up from Dumfries for a game.
Finding seats together is a nightmare for fear that at five to three someone will arrive claiming you're in their seat.
Might not seem a lot to some but it's another wee turn-off for walk-up fans.

If we had season tickets that were just for the East stand with no allocated seat number it wouldn't be a problem.

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