Bhamkillieken Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 36 minutes ago, plunkit said: I am certainly not misleading anyone. What I am saying is interest was being serviced. Capital was not reducing other than by lump sum repayments through asset sale. Nothing seemed to be done to try to effect such payments through increase in revenue. That's very clear to anyone...not just me. Happy to discuss if you message me your number. You said a debt could not be called in if the interest is being served, that is not correct. With a breach of the other covenants of the debt then they can call in at any time, should they so wish. A football club, losing money, falling down the league with falling attendances and a stadium needing investment I wonder what the bank thought? Many companies were called in post 2008 and politely forced to refinance debt they had even though they were making the interest payments. Previous commercial overdraft facilities that were never breached were removed overnight though they had never been breached. These are examples of a debt being called in even when payments are being made. hopefully you can agree with the above? It's all quite factual. no need to call me off on holiday -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culley159 Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Bhamkillieken said: You said a debt could not be called in if the interest is being served, that is not correct. With a breach of the other covenants of the debt then they can call in at any time, should they so wish. A football club, losing money, falling down the league with falling attendances and a stadium needing investment I wonder what the bank thought? Many companies were called in post 2008 and politely forced to refinance debt they had even though they were making the interest payments. Previous commercial overdraft facilities that were never breached were removed overnight though they had never been breached. These are examples of a debt being called in even when payments are being made. hopefully you can agree with the above? It's all quite factual. no need to call me off on holiday It still wasn't called in. No need to go on holiday just because you got your arse handed to you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fankle Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 11 hours ago, C4mmy31 said: Finished tailed off last in the mascot race at Hamilton last night..... To be fair he's just turned 70! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhamkillieken Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 On 26/08/2017 at 7:05 PM, Culley159 said: It still wasn't called in. No need to go on holiday just because you got your arse handed to you. feel free to read my posts again, i never said our debt was called in. i felt it important to correct Plunkits statement that debt is not called in when the interest payments are being met. this is simply not true. sorry if facts like this upset you in anyway. but it is better to know the reality of the borrowing of money. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plunkit Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 You should read my posts again. At no point did i say debt cannot be called in if interest is being serviced. I did say that EBITDA of the hotel was servicing debt with ease and the problem was capital repayment. Indeed, this was discussed by the then chairman at many AGMs explaining the policy of asset sale to reduce debt. Covenants take many forms, with, I'm sure you know, CFADS generally being the most common. Interest cover is also common. There is no one-size-fits-all suite of covenants. They are built around specific cases so unless you know what covenants applied in this case your argument, such as it is, is redundant. To suggest that I am making erroneous or misleading comments here is quite wrong. I would respectfully suggest that I absolutely know what I am talking about when it comes to corporate finance. My present caseload has pipeline fundraising of just shy of £60m via debt, equity and grant and I just secured a rescheduling deal with a bank which will save 170 odd jobs. I rest comfortable with my abilities. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, plunkit said: You should read my posts again. At no point did i say debt cannot be called in if interest is being serviced. I did say that EBITDA of the hotel was servicing debt with ease and the problem was capital repayment. Indeed, this was discussed by the then chairman at many AGMs explaining the policy of asset sale to reduce debt. Covenants take many forms, with, I'm sure you know, CFADS generally being the most common. Interest cover is also common. There is no one-size-fits-all suite of covenants. They are built around specific cases so unless you know what covenants applied in this case your argument, such as it is, is redundant. To suggest that I am making erroneous or misleading comments here is quite wrong. I would respectfully suggest that I absolutely know what I am talking about when it comes to corporate finance. My present caseload has pipeline fundraising of just shy of £60m via debt, equity and grant and I just secured a rescheduling deal with a bank which will save 170 odd jobs. I rest comfortable with my abilities. Clamped. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plunkit Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, david mcbeth said: I think you should read each other's posts again...and again...and again Nah...im outta thus one 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhamkillieken Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 On 25/08/2017 at 5:46 PM, plunkit said: Firstly - to answer another point - debt is only called up if it is not being serviced. This happens when the cash generation falls below a level which can manage to achieve that which is generally because the customer base is no longer there, for example. Debt is not called up because someone fancies doing it. A business can not always react to a fall in cash generation - perhaps the product is obsolete, but many can diversify. The building of the hotel was a diversification which created a cash flow which was no longer seasonal - a good thing. However, the company was badly run - a bad thing. Trust me I am tempted to call time on this thread too. THis is the part of the post to which I am referring to. I think most people on here would have read servicing the debt as paying the interest. I feel that paints a too simplistic picture of a complicated situation. I to have over 20 years experience in the securing of money/investment for clients all of that being in the commercial sector. So likewise I am comfortable in my knowledge. Looks like you have some decent pipeline work I hope you land a good percentage of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asasaid Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 Why did the bank manager leave his job - He lost interest....... just like the rest of us with this part of this thread 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plunkit Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Bhamkillieken said: Trust me I am tempted to call time on this thread too. THis is the part of the post to which I am referring to. I think most people on here would have read servicing the debt as paying the interest. I feel that paints a too simplistic picture of a complicated situation. I to have over 20 years experience in the securing of money/investment for clients all of that being in the commercial sector. So likewise I am comfortable in my knowledge. Looks like you have some decent pipeline work I hope you land a good percentage of it. Servicing debt is dependent on the terms of the agreement. That could be capital and interest...capital only ..or involve breaks in either or capital and interest. Based on your knowledge of fundraising then you do , of course, know this. You will note that I don't seem to have mentioned interest in the quoted post. Nae harm.but I suggest most people on here are seeing this one way...most of them are probably as bored with it as I am. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plunkit Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 And before you say...I thought you were out of here?... if you want to continue a game of a play on words and question my professional abilities then take up my offer to call me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casual observer Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 The last two pages are a great analogy for the thread title to be fair! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18yardhero Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 Contrary to other posts, I found the discourse here quite enlightening. As soon as we get some intelligent people debating stuff that actually matters we start having a go at them for being boring? Talk about living up to the thick football fans stereotype! Should we limit ourselves to how much gravy is in the pies and what colour the away strip should be from now on? If you can't cope with the big words or the agenda here why not just click to another thread, you managed to find your way here, its just as easy to find your way out. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogwai Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 As interesting as the debate (genuinely) was, I'm thinking about ways to get more punters through the doors. Putting the teams performance and ticket pricing to one side for the moment, it can often be little things that matter. Take Disneyland, for example. My young daughters (like many others) loved running about Disneyland with their princess dresses on. Everywhere they went they were greeted with "Good morning, Princess", "So nice of you to come, Princess" and so on. Attitude can go a long way to making the experience that bit better so people come back. As someone said before, Gregor Townsend did a lot of research when he took over Glasgow Warriors, and the thing he saw at Barcelona was that the players waited to speak to kids and sign autographs. It's part of their contract when they sign for the 'Barcelona family', because you might just make a lasting impact on the next Messi or Iniesta. Back to Disneyland - Everyone loves a freebie. Because they were wearing their princess dresses they got to skip the queue to meet some of the Disney Princesses, and we got upgraded seating at the Frozen show - one of the staff came along and simply said, "Your Highnesses, your seats are over here!". Realistically, it was the same benches, but front and centre, with a cushion and a wee bit of velvet rope separating us from the non-royals/peasants. But my kids loved it. LOVED IT. Contrast this with Killie. I've bought a season ticket for years, but what added benefits do I get for my loyalty? Guaranteed I'll miss one or two home games, so no financial bonus. We used to get vouchers which were decent. Why not something like a raffle for season ticket holders before the game where the winner + up to 3 pals are whisked off to enjoy free hospitality at the match?* *Not sure on any details, just a suggestion. Maybe hospitality at the next home match would be more sensible....but less exciting. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 Just now, Mogwai said: As interesting as the debate (genuinely) was, I'm thinking about ways to get more punters through the doors. Putting the teams performance and ticket pricing to one side for the moment, it can often be little things that matter. Take Disneyland, for example. I'd have a "Pirates of the Caribbean" themed Half Time show. Where has been, former Rangers players "Walk the Plank", into a large shark infested tank, much to the amusement of all the old guys in the East stand.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangodog Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 16 hours ago, RAG said: I'd have a "Pirates of the Caribbean" themed Half Time show. Where has been, former Rangers players "Walk the Plank", into a large shark infested tank, much to the amusement of all the old guys in the East stand.. As long as Johnny Depp joins them. Actually, the "Pirates of the Caribbean" series of films is about the only thing Depp is good in as his overacting fits the part. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullitt Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 7 hours ago, Wrangodog said: As long as Johnny Depp joins them. Actually, the "Pirates of the Caribbean" series of films is about the only thing Depp is good in as his overacting fits the part. You obviously have never seen Donnie Brasco mate! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangodog Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Bullitt said: You obviously have never seen Donnie Brasco mate! Yes, unfortunately I have. Went with my daughter and both of us were underwhelmed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpetree Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Must be difficult to over-act opposite Al Pacino - hoo-hah! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangodog Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Sorry, having a bad day today. I haven't seen Donnie Brasco, was Black Mass I was thinking about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond_geezer Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Killie v the might of Walt . We can do it . Everything is possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogwai Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 I'm going to take that with an optimistic spin @diamond_geezer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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