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"Grey and lifeless"


skygod

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IF you’re a Kilmarnock fan whose Bovril cup is half full, it’s been a dodgy start to the season but there’s a long way to go.

If it’s half empty?

Well, you’re already sighing with resignation at being three games into the latest re-run of a decade-long Groundhog Day.

And on the evidence of a wet, windy and wearily familiar Saturday at Rugby Park, the drinks are already half-empty when they get handed over the pie stall counters.

Look at the picture of the stand opposite the tunnel. Check the swathes of empty blue seats.

That’s not ten minutes before kick-off, it’s in what should have been the heat of battle — except that, sadly, the temperature at Killie home games these days rarely gets above lukewarm, even when the champions are in town.

It’s not so long since no one from the Old Firm down fancied this trip, because they knew the atmosphere would be raucous and the tackling fierce.

The ceilings in the corridors were low, the tunnel too narrow for two teams to stand side-by-side.

Everything about it was uncomfortable.

Now? Manager Lee McCulloch admits it himself — teams love it. They find it too easy.

A point proved by no points and only one goal from their opening three league games, sending any shreds of summer optimism scudding for cover from a big, black, looming cloud.

They’ve lost an Ayrshire derby in the League Cup group stages.

They were thumped 5-0 by Celtic’s second string in the last 16.

Their under-20s went down — again, at home — to Berwick Rangers in the Irn-Bru Cup last midweek.

On Saturday, they came away from an ever-so-flat 2-0 loss to Celtic with praise from Brendan Rodgers raining down on McCulloch for his talents and the organisation and efforts of his players, which was a very decent gesture.

But the reality is that Killie brought nothing to the occasion, on or off the pitch.

No efforts on target, no spell of pressure that put THAT unbeaten record at the slightest risk — and absolutely no rousing backing from the fans.

At either end of the stadium, stands packed with visiting punters rocked and bounced and boomed; not always, as I’ve written elsewhere, with the kind of backing any club should be proud to associate with, but still a noise to intimidate the life out of any opposition.

The kind of noise the home crowd should be producing and which Killie’s used to.

Sadly, those visitors made up around 75 per cent of a gate just over 10,000 and produced 99.5 per cent of the atmosphere.

It IS sad, too, because this was no one-off.

This is becoming the norm at Rugby Park, where a day out used to be full of colour and character, but which is now grey and lifeless.

And it doesn’t feel like anyone has a handle on how to breathe life back into the club.

McCulloch points to a seven-year spell when home results have been the worst in the club’s history and shakes his head in bemusement at why so many bosses and such a huge turnover of players have found it so hard to change that.

He’s desperate for the thousands who never used to miss a game but now can’t be bothered to get behind his side once more.

Yet he’s smart enough to know there’s a reason why those thousands — the lowest average gate between 1993 and 2003 was 7,408, while since 2008 the highest average has been 6,427 — have lost heart.

It’s four home wins last season, four the year before.

It’s surviving by the skin of their teeth in a play-off two years ago, staying up on the final day in 2010, being saved from the drop in 2008 by Gretna’s implosion.

It’s a gradual, year-on-year slide to mainstays of the drop zone dogfight, with only the odd upward blip like 2012’s League Cup Final triumph.

It’s barely scoring more than a goal a game in the league for the past ten years.

It’s . . . well, it’s just dispiriting. It wears you down.

I hate to see a club like this, a proper football club with deep roots and a proud history, treading water.

It doesn’t seem right, this decline, this stagnation, this sense of nothingness.

Sure, they’ve been way lower in terms of results — 30 years ago, they were in the bottom division and fighting for their very existence.

But that was part of football’s natural cycle, it’s happened to plenty others who have hit hard times and bounced back.

This current malaise, though, feels different. It feels ingrained.

I really hope that feeling isn’t justified and that Killie’s feelgood factor has only been misplaced, not lost.

Though not nearly much as they must do themselves.

(Bill Leckie, Sun)

 

This seems worthy of a thread of its own, I think.

What can we do as supporters to reinvigorate the club? What more should the club be doing?

MJ's leaving was supposed to be the turning point when everyone started working together but it seems that the revolution has got off to a stuttering start.

The new Communications and Marketing person has their work cut out.

 Let's try and be positive and keep our red cards in our pockets!

 

 

Edited by skygod
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This statement in the article seems a bit contradictory:

Sure, they’ve been way lower in terms of results — 30 years ago, they were in the bottom division and fighting for their very existence.
But that was part of football’s natural cycle, it’s happened to plenty others who have hit hard times and bounced back.This current malaise, though, feels different. It feels ingrained.


When we went down to the bottom league it was following a period of gradual decline. Perhaps we need to hit the depths in order to be reborn again. Both Hearts and Hibs are in a better place now after having been relegated.

This year there certainly hasn't been a post-MJ bounce in terms of attendances even though the club are trying much harder in terms of communication and involvement with spectators and are getting a lot of things right.

Ultimately, what happens on the pitch is the single biggest factor. Win games and crowds increase, win an average of 4 home games per season and average one goal a game for about 10 years and crowds will understandably decline.

I agree the new Comms & Marketing person has their work cut out but they could be the best in the business and it wouldn't matter if the team don't start to deliver better performances and better results.

Edited by historyman
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Great points, Sp3cky.

What is maybe most worrying to me is that, unless young supporters are encouraged and welcomed, the future of the club is bleak.

We need to be engaging with them to find out what would bring them in and keep them. How successful were the pre-match sessions organised in the hotel, for example? We need to give them the product that they want, not what some middle-aged people think they want.

Would the club be prepared to trial at least free transport from outlying areas?

There are factors outwith our control such as live football on TV but there are things we can do. I've witnessed at first hand clubs undergoing a transformation and it all begins with having a common cause. Give the supporters a little bit of encouragement and they will (or should)  respond.

 

 

  

Edited by skygod
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While a club like us can't rely on results to attract fans, the home form has made it very hard for all but the diehards to go. Also, we need to look at the ground set up. Ideas like areas where the vocal supporters can gather together must be pursued an safe standing whenever possible.

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Not the only issue but a stadium re-jig would help get the noisy fans together. Also a look at the pre match music etc would help as its currently a joke.

Small changes but they may just help a little. If you watch motherwell and saints home matches, more often than not the players run straight for the "ultra section" when they score because they appreciate the support they give.

Can anyone recall if crowds went up during the mixu purple patch?

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Can folk stop this nonsensical idea that relegation would be a good thing. It would be utter s**te.

As for RP, I'd gladly knock it down and move elsewhere. Far, far too big for us and in reality it always has been. In the past it was ok with 6-7k home fans in it but with 1,500 like Saturday is nothing but depressing.

We should have moved to the Halo site when it was being discussed.

But whilst we're stuck with it we can do simple things. Like getting rid of they crap tannoy announcer and even crapper music. It's depressing enough without having to listen to that!!!

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One thing the club badly lacks is someone with charisma.

It's all very well having talk-ins and roadshows with McCulloch, Kiltie, Bowie etc but they don't generate much passion, excitement or motivation, sat behind a table. 

Get up, roam with your mic, ask people to their faces for their views.

And get rid of the tired old Nutz mascot. The mascot at the athletics championships was a show in his own right and everyone loved it.

Do they still have the cheerleaders? Jeezo....

 

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I used to sit in the FB stand and looking across at East there was always the section nearest the chadwick that had the younger fans giving it laldy for 90 minutes. Singing, chanting and having a good time.

We only ever give any encouragement after goals or a few corners in a row. Even at the Ayr game the singing almost stopped completely after kickoff. Falkirk game was fantastic and best game i've been at at Rugby park since mixus season. 90 minutes of quality atmosphere.

The hearts crowd made a right racket the other day and that was just their small section of 50 or so in top right corner.

Should maybe try and get that section back again, anyone who's up for it, go to far end of East stand and pack into it, create an atmosphere. I always try to shout and sing at home games but when you're doing it yourself it gets embarrassing. 

 

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i wish they would stop telling me every week that i am sitting on top of wooden decking in the FB stand, i know this i have no plans to build a bonfire or get the chiminea out at HT, i have not once seen anyone try and smoke a cig while sat in their seat, not once

the sound system, the music and the announcer are horrendous, the weekend was no different when the subs were being made, at least practice how to say names before taking a mike in your hand and announcing it, you can actually hear the pause while he tries to figure out how to pronounce players names.

i second callind it time on the cheerleaders, didnt mind when i was 14 but now as im nearly 40 i feel a bit uncomfortable if i glance towards the pitch,

how about getting an announcer that can add a bit of life to HT, get say 4 or 5 kids on the park and have a wee challenge where the winner gets a signed shirt and ball every week, picked at random from the crowd ?

have an announcer that brings you scores from around the grounds aswell, telling you how that currently affects us etc just be more engaging instead of the same old format that has not changed since i was shouting Dylan Kerr over to sign my programme and giving abuse to Giles Rousset

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3 minutes ago, PrestersKtid said:

I used to sit in the FB stand and looking across at East there was always the section nearest the chadwick that had the younger fans giving it laldy for 90 minutes. Singing, chanting and having a good time.

We only ever give any encouragement after goals or a few corners in a row. Even at the Ayr game the singing almost stopped completely after kickoff. Falkirk game was fantastic and best game i've been at at Rugby park since mixus season. 90 minutes of quality atmosphere.

The hearts crowd made a right racket the other day and that was just their small section of 50 or so in top right corner.

Should maybe try and get that section back again, anyone who's up for it, go to far end of East stand and pack into it, create an atmosphere. I always try to shout and sing at home games but when you're doing it yourself it gets embarrassing. 

 

see at the St Johnstone game i was shouting a simple "Moan The Killie" and the old woman in front of me turned round tutting and looked at me as if id poured my bovril into her handbag it would burst ye

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Can't argue with anything in the article. I'd love to knock down Rugby Park and start again.  It's far too big, lifeless, soulless, a terrible match-day experience, its an easy place for opponents to come and collect 3 points, the pitch is utterly laughable.  What was once a proud stadium is now a complete and utter laughing stock. These factors in allied to the pathetic home form and performances and cost make it virtually impossible to attract lapsed fans back.

We are never going to turn things around and we would be much better off selling it and moving to a new smaller purpose built stadium.  The club needs a new wind of change and staying at Rugby Park is never going to make it happen.

Of course we all know that Bowie will never sanction this as it will take away huge footfall from his hotel and he's just spent cash building an Exec box for his pals.  So we are stuck with it.

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16 minutes ago, skygod said:

One thing the club badly lacks is someone with charisma.

I agree. BB may be a fantastic businessman ploughing a lot of money into the club but he doesn't like meeja attention.

Lee McCulloch does a great impression of a man in a grey suit when Interviewed.

Boydie is too consumed with taking up The Rangers.

We need somebody with charisma and passion to "sell" the club.

Tommy Burns, KennyShiels, The Doomed, somebody like that. 

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The only way to get fans back and to get fans reacting is to start winning. Nobody was putting anything into the club for years and now we're at the early stages of a top to bottom rebuild that's going to take a while. Making a few half decent signings was never going to have people coming back, results will. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I feel a bit battered by the club post-KS era. I'm sure we'll get there but we're still not an attractive prospect for the stay away fan. We're in recovery, but we need to start picking up wins.

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1 hour ago, historyman said:

This statement in the article seems a bit contradictory:

Sure, they’ve been way lower in terms of results — 30 years ago, they were in the bottom division and fighting for their very existence.
But that was part of football’s natural cycle, it’s happened to plenty others who have hit hard times and bounced back.This current malaise, though, feels different. It feels ingrained.


When we went down to the bottom league it was following a period of gradual decline. Perhaps we need to hit the depths in order to be reborn again. Both Hearts and Hibs are in a better place now after having been relegated.

This year there certainly hasn't been a post-MJ bounce in terms of attendances even though the club are trying much harder in terms of communication and involvement with spectators and are getting a lot of things right.

Ultimately, what happens on the pitch is the single biggest factor. Win games and crowds increase, win an average of 4 home games per season and average one goal a game for about 10 years and crowds will understandably decline.

I agree the new Comms & Marketing person has their work cut out but they could be the best in the business and it wouldn't matter if the team don't start to deliver better performances and better results.

I was thinking the same thing. Sometimes relegation is needed to reinvigorate a club. 

It could be argued that Motherwell have had a similar period of stagnation.

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47 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Can folk stop this nonsensical idea that relegation would be a good thing. It would be utter s**te.

As for RP, I'd gladly knock it down and move elsewhere. Far, far too big for us and in reality it always has been. In the past it was ok with 6-7k home fans in it but with 1,500 like Saturday is nothing but depressing.

We should have moved to the Halo site when it was being discussed.

But whilst we're stuck with it we can do simple things. Like getting rid of they crap tannoy announcer and even crapper music. It's depressing enough without having to listen to that!!!

moving to the Halo development would be terrible for Killie, we need to own our ground so that we have assets. we have had enough of our assets sold off already.

the stadium isnt great, but it is not the problem. the lack of fans is.

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1 hour ago, skygod said:

 

And get rid of the tired old Nutz mascot. The mascot at the athletics championships was a show in his own right and everyone loved it.

 

 

The mascots at the athletics were 'professional' mascots(yip hard to believe) that were brought in at great cost from America, apparently there were a team of them not just 1.

Its big business over there.

We are too precious over here to allow anything decent, any mascot that does things out of the box is quickly sacked or arrested, its pathetic.

Remember Nuts' Ayr Freshener, or Sammy the Tammy's tank and soap, funny stuff that nearly got them arrested, its a freakin joke.

And in the grand scheme of things probably not our biggest issue.

Edited by Andy
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12 minutes ago, Andy said:

The mascots at the athletics were 'professional' mascots(yip hard to believe) that were brought in at great cost from America, apparently there were a team of them not just 1.

I suspected as much but there was only one of them "on duty" at a time. 

Don't underestimate how much kids react to a good mascot with a personality doing a turn pre-match and at half-time. 

It works at Disneyworld!

Someone in a manky old costume doesn't cut it. 

 

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There are multiple factors for the decline in fan numbers at home games. One of which in my opinion is the lack of constancy over the past several seasons. Too many changes in management which meant a new group of players each year and in turn that reflected on the pitch. Added to the instability over the years, relegation fight/survival for numerous years and the whole MJ saga, its understandable we lost so many fans.

The best way to get fans back is a combination of winning games, cheaper entry to games and someone to drive sales, get out the local community and make KFC the first thing on peoples minds.

The activity on social media is great and I applaud it but more needs to be done out and about in the local towns.

One aspect is clear though, we cant rely and be putting sole responsibility of this issue on the team and club. Its going to take a collective effort to get the club back to where it once was. 

Its going to be a long road and I whole heartily agree with Sp3cky, the past is the past, we all need to move forward as one.

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2 hours ago, skygod said:

IF you’re a Kilmarnock fan whose Bovril cup is half full, it’s been a dodgy start to the season but there’s a long way to go.

If it’s half empty?

Well, you’re already sighing with resignation at being three games into the latest re-run of a decade-long Groundhog Day.

And on the evidence of a wet, windy and wearily familiar Saturday at Rugby Park, the drinks are already half-empty when they get handed over the pie stall counters.

Look at the picture of the stand opposite the tunnel. Check the swathes of empty blue seats.

That’s not ten minutes before kick-off, it’s in what should have been the heat of battle — except that, sadly, the temperature at Killie home games these days rarely gets above lukewarm, even when the champions are in town.

It’s not so long since no one from the Old Firm down fancied this trip, because they knew the atmosphere would be raucous and the tackling fierce.

The ceilings in the corridors were low, the tunnel too narrow for two teams to stand side-by-side.

Everything about it was uncomfortable.

Now? Manager Lee McCulloch admits it himself — teams love it. They find it too easy.

A point proved by no points and only one goal from their opening three league games, sending any shreds of summer optimism scudding for cover from a big, black, looming cloud.

They’ve lost an Ayrshire derby in the League Cup group stages.

They were thumped 5-0 by Celtic’s second string in the last 16.

Their under-20s went down — again, at home — to Berwick Rangers in the Irn-Bru Cup last midweek.

On Saturday, they came away from an ever-so-flat 2-0 loss to Celtic with praise from Brendan Rodgers raining down on McCulloch for his talents and the organisation and efforts of his players, which was a very decent gesture.

But the reality is that Killie brought nothing to the occasion, on or off the pitch.

No efforts on target, no spell of pressure that put THAT unbeaten record at the slightest risk — and absolutely no rousing backing from the fans.

At either end of the stadium, stands packed with visiting punters rocked and bounced and boomed; not always, as I’ve written elsewhere, with the kind of backing any club should be proud to associate with, but still a noise to intimidate the life out of any opposition.

The kind of noise the home crowd should be producing and which Killie’s used to.

Sadly, those visitors made up around 75 per cent of a gate just over 10,000 and produced 99.5 per cent of the atmosphere.

It IS sad, too, because this was no one-off.

This is becoming the norm at Rugby Park, where a day out used to be full of colour and character, but which is now grey and lifeless.

And it doesn’t feel like anyone has a handle on how to breathe life back into the club.

McCulloch points to a seven-year spell when home results have been the worst in the club’s history and shakes his head in bemusement at why so many bosses and such a huge turnover of players have found it so hard to change that.

He’s desperate for the thousands who never used to miss a game but now can’t be bothered to get behind his side once more.

Yet he’s smart enough to know there’s a reason why those thousands — the lowest average gate between 1993 and 2003 was 7,408, while since 2008 the highest average has been 6,427 — have lost heart.

It’s four home wins last season, four the year before.

It’s surviving by the skin of their teeth in a play-off two years ago, staying up on the final day in 2010, being saved from the drop in 2008 by Gretna’s implosion.

It’s a gradual, year-on-year slide to mainstays of the drop zone dogfight, with only the odd upward blip like 2012’s League Cup Final triumph.

It’s barely scoring more than a goal a game in the league for the past ten years.

It’s . . . well, it’s just dispiriting. It wears you down.

I hate to see a club like this, a proper football club with deep roots and a proud history, treading water.

It doesn’t seem right, this decline, this stagnation, this sense of nothingness.

Sure, they’ve been way lower in terms of results — 30 years ago, they were in the bottom division and fighting for their very existence.

But that was part of football’s natural cycle, it’s happened to plenty others who have hit hard times and bounced back.

This current malaise, though, feels different. It feels ingrained.

I really hope that feeling isn’t justified and that Killie’s feelgood factor has only been misplaced, not lost.

Though not nearly much as they must do themselves.

(Bill Leckie, Sun)

 

This seems worthy of a thread of its own, I think.

What can we do as supporters to reinvigorate the club? What more should the club be doing?

MJ's leaving was supposed to be the turning point when everyone started working together but it seems that the revolution has got off to a stuttering start.

The new Communications and Marketing person has their work cut out.

 Let's try and be positive and keep our red cards in our pockets!

 

 

Not quite sure any club would be proud of fans singing about the IRA or the Queen, but I get his point, RP is a shambles on match days.

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1 hour ago, Bhamkillieken said:

moving to the Halo development would be terrible for Killie, we need to own our ground so that we have assets. we have had enough of our assets sold off already.

the stadium isnt great, but it is not the problem. the lack of fans is.

I disagree.

A 18k white elephant that we can't even afford to keep in semi decent condition isn't an asset IMO.

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Good article and some nice points on the thread. Disagree with getting rid of the cheerleaders @Sp3ckyh0td0g81. They provide entertainment, enjoy what they do and their presence shows community involvement.

As fans, it would help if we could be as positive as possible when discussing Killie to others. A positive description could bring people back to RP, or to RP for the first time. Yes we have a number of legitimate gripes, but those should be aired and acted on in as positive a manner as possible.

 

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4 minutes ago, mathematics said:

Good article and some nice points on the thread. Disagree with getting rid of the cheerleaders @Sp3ckyh0td0g81. They provide entertainment, enjoy what they do and their presence shows community involvement.

As fans, it would help if we could be as positive as possible when discussing Killie to others. A positive description could bring people back to RP, or to RP for the first time. Yes we have a number of legitimate gripes, but those should be aired and acted on in as positive a manner as possible.

 

Can't believe you disagreed with me I thought we were friends xD

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