Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
MarkD1989KTID

A Culture Problem at the club

Recommended Posts

2 Years ago Josh Magennis identified a problem at our club. Players would give up whenever things weren't going their way and weren't even trying during games  (contracts should be terminated for those who throw in the towel after 60 minutes was his quote) and he felt he had to go public in order to get his point across this I'm sure was last resort for him and couldn't have been an easy thing to do. fast forward 2 years and another player has arrived and found himself equally shocked that professionals are not even trying, don't care, and aren't interested in giving their all and has once again felt the need to go public with this. 

The question I have is this. . . why has and indeed when did this culture foster and breed within killie and why does it still exist? 

For me this culture began as soon as Kenny Shiels left and has only got worse in the last 5 years. Are their common denominators or personnel that have arrived since Kenny and are still at the club? we must look closely at this as it's a major issue I feel.

what's everyone else's thoughts. we know we aren't going to see world class Messi esque performances (we accept as realistic fans that these players are with us because they aren't top class). . . but do you feel over the last 5 years we have seen a decline in players effort and dedication on the pitch and to the club?

I certainly do. 

And so do some killie professional players. One whose moved onto another club and higher level. The other who has played at highest level and can't believe what he's seeing.

20170911_124215.jpg.68f538d5958041e3ca523e3676211bba.jpg

Edited by MarkD1989KTID
  • Back of the Net! 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
david mcbeth    240

It began before Kenny Shiels left with his posse of senior prima donnas that he ultimately fell out with.

It got much worse after Shiels left and the only time there was any sign of a slight reversal was when Clark was here because some of the players were a bit scared of him. 

Now it is back to how it was under AJ and Locke

and for avoidance of doubt, Clark was far from a world beater at anything other than talking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For Greer, a class act who was first pick for Scotland not long ago, to arrive and say he witnessed on Saturday a team who couldn't be bothered is frightening. This issue has to be addressed as it's the single biggest reason we are spiralling into the abyss. 

I don't see players who are looking after their bodies, I don't see players who are fighting for each other. I don't see players who CARE. Whether we score a goal or lose a goal it's the same reaction. a wee shrug of the shoulders and a trudge back individually to their starting positions.positions. For the last 5 years I've watched a group of various players who look like they HATE football. 

Coulibaly and Ajer being the exception. one got a big move (not a coincidence) and another is a complete class act never in our league anyway. but least they cared.

Everyone knows someone who forged a career for themselves. had the company they'd worked for for so many years offer packages to those who were nearing retirement and so they took it. they were happy at home and had accumulated a decent pension but were beginning to get a bit bored around the house and so took a wee part time job to tide them over, nothing to drastic or hard just some extra pocket money to top up their pension. 

This is what killie have become to these ageing players whether it be Barry Nicholson, Kirk Broadfoot or the whole host of players in between. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Zorro    458

For me, the turning point for attitudes at our club, seemed to coincide with MJ's decision to fine players for bookings and then was compounded by the cup bonus row. Both seemed to suck the spirit from the team. Gary Harkins attitude under Shiels also didn't help and I believe if Kenny had been allowed to continue his building program, we'd have a much fitter more committed team now. Unfortunately, some fans weren't happy at him playing kids and missing out on a top six finish. You couldn't even reason with them or get them to acknowledge he'd lost key players. The money meant more to them than the future of the club. 

  • Like 5
  • Back of the Net! 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keith Miller    14

The winning mentality has totally disappeared.   Personally, I would be asking Monty for his assistance in this.  Let him tell the current squad exactly how to display the right drive and attitude on the pitch ( as he did ).  Make them proud to play for Killie, and if they don't shape up, then they can ship out right now.  The last thing we need is non-committed players who don't really give a toss.  Aware it's a big ask, but I'm sure Monty will be hurting like the rest of us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Zorro said:

For me, the turning point for attitudes at our club, seemed to coincide with MJ's decision to fine players for bookings and then was compounded by the cup bonus row. Both seemed to suck the spirit from the team. Gary Harkins attitude under Shiels also didn't help and I believe if Kenny had been allowed to continue his building program, we'd have a much fitter more committed team now. Unfortunately, some fans weren't happy at him playing kids and missing out on a top six finish. You couldn't even reason with them or get them to acknowledge he'd lost key players. The money meant more to them than the future of the club. 

Agree with this. Kenny was beginning to see issues with players at the club and was taking action to ensure this culture couldn't continue. He was moving on fat messes who thought training was optional and bringing through kids who bought into his ethos and work ethic. We then sacked him for bringing in these kids and trying to develop this positive culture and now five year on we have giant fat messes who think training is optional playing simply the best on the piano

  • Back of the Net! 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
red_dug    63

The coffee club clique was the start of all this i reckon although nobody could accuse michael nelson of not trying, the same couldnt be said for harkins, letheren, racchi, etc.

Its becoming difficult to support a side who in reality don't give a toss about the club or fans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fmcc    76

can't imagine his teammates will be too pleased about him slagging them off in the paper. But, never know if he's strong enough to deal with the backlash internally, this might be whats needed

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CBFC    108

Was this the reason GG was subbed at half time on Saturday?  Did he upset somebody in the dressing room?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Killie1970    88
21 minutes ago, fmcc said:

can't imagine his teammates will be too pleased about him slagging them off in the paper. But, never know if he's strong enough to deal with the backlash internally, this might be whats needed

I hope they're not too pleased and work their arses out the exit door. We'll done to big Gordon for, first of all, noticing it and secondly, for coming out and saying it. I think he's strong enough and if proved correct with his statement, he'll have the majority of fans behind him! 

  • Like 2
  • Back of the Net! 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jamieboy    7
1 minute ago, Killie1970 said:

I hope they're not too pleased and work their arses out the exit door. We'll done to big Gordon for, first of all, noticing it and secondly, for coming out and saying it. I think he's strong enough and if proved correct with his statement, he'll have the majority of fans behind him! 

Considering Greer never played in pre-season he's in fantastic nick. A proper professional, a lot of our players should be taking on board as much as they can from him. 

  • Like 2
  • Back of the Net! 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Killie1970    88
3 minutes ago, jamieboy said:

Considering Greer never played in pre-season he's in fantastic nick. A proper professional, a lot of our players should be taking on board as much as they can from him. 

Correct, spot on.

  • Back of the Net! 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gmullin88    27

I worry that we lack players who are at the peak of their football career. Our squad is full of great young talent and older heads ( above 32) but I think we are missing a core group of 25-30 that are battle hardened

  • Back of the Net! 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jedi2    103

Ironically last season, when we had Clark's mad game of Football Manager at the start of the season, and then over the first few months, although many players were on loan, and some clearly weren't good enough for the SPL, the difference then and now, was that the majority were young. In other words they had something to prove. Effort levels as such weren't the problem imo, rather ability was more the issue. Guys like Johnny Burn, Will Boyle, Luke Hendrie, Coulibally, even Bojaj, Martin Smith, Jordan Jones etc did 'try'. As said, some clearly weren't ready for, or up to, the standards of the SPL. Also as suggested many times before, Clark misjudged the quality required, thinking 'it's only Scotland after all'. Of course with the revolving door policy ot was difficult as fans to begin to try and keep up with who was actually playing on a Saturday.

The change under LM has been the opposite....guys like Burke, Broadfoot, Kris Boyd, Greer (back to him in a moment), Power etc are nearing the end of the careers. They don't technically have anything to 'prove'. That, can lead to apathy, and more of a going through the motions potentially, in contrast to younger players. Fair play to Greer, as suggested, who is clearly a model professional, a man who keeps himself in shape,and hurts when those around him don't put the same effort in. Significantly of course he is also a recent Internationalist, and has played at a good level throughout his career.It is always a danger to have 'too much' experience in a side of older players, who can coast along. 

Contrast that however to the team we had in 93/94. Termed 'Dad's Army' with the likes of Monty, Millen, Geddes, Williamson, McCluskey, Burns, Stark. All nearing the end of their careers, but willing to give 100% every week. It seems that the type of manager a club in our position and size needs is still a KS figure (doesn't 'have' to be KS himself), but someone whose focus is on youth (though not just loanees), who has a longer term plan for the whole club, and just perhaps puts in 2 or 3 older heads (all with something still to give and prove), to help the younger players. Agree about the need for some 25-30 year olds as well.

 

Edited by Jedi2
  • Back of the Net! 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This older professionals point is REALLY important. There are clearly (as the 93/94 reference demonstrates) two types of 'old lag' one of which is a cancer in a club especially one with limited resources and the other can be really positive for the youngsters and the club generally.

It seems to me that the fans are pretty clear which category most of our lot belong in.

The blame for this comes from the top in that the Board have tolerated it. As has been said elsewhere McCulloch and Leven have ben here long enough to address it and haven't. That, coupled with the inept tactics and criminally poor signings mean that they have to go. I say this reluctantly but Greer's intervention and this thread has made up my mind.

Future recruitment needs to be as much on character as anything else so that at least we see some pride, passion and effort on the pitch.

As has been said we can't expect world beaters but we are entitled to these attributes from the people lucky enough to be living our dreams.

 

 

  • Back of the Net! 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mogwai    198

If McCulloch is serious about being manager of our club, then I'd be looking to make an example of one or two of the slackers. 

Get them punted, contracts cancelled or bought out. Make it crystal clear to the others that the wrong attitude will not be tolerated. Honest mistakes are part and parcel of life, but if they don't learn from them, then will will need to find a lesser club more suited to their abilities.

That should stop them seeing him as one of the lads. Once the harsh lessons are dished out, start on building morale back up.

  • Back of the Net! 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Zorro    458
3 hours ago, Jedi2 said:

It seems that the type of manager a club in our position and size needs is still a KS figure (doesn't 'have' to be KS himself), but someone whose focus is on youth (though not just loanees), who has a longer term plan for the whole club, and just perhaps puts in 2 or 3 older heads (all with something still to give and prove), to help the younger players. Agree about the need for some 25-30 year olds as well.

 

I'm a huge KS fan,but for all his visionary ideas, his downfall will always be that he's a football purist at heart. That's fine if you're Pep and have technically superior players at your disposal, but at the moment anyone managing Killie would be tasked with making a silk purse from a sows ear. 

What we really need is a manager that knows the value of old school warriors. Men that hate getting beat, no matter whether that's in a match or at training. These guys set the standards at a club. They push everyone harder in training. They make the fouls and take the booking that turn loses into draws and draws into wins. Look around our club and do you see anyone who fits that mould?

By all means get a KS type or even better KS himself in charge of youth development. I doubt there'd be a stone left unturned to find our next generation of players, and parents couldn't help but be impressed by his passion for the job, but we desperately need someone who doesn't care if we play the beautiful game or win ugly, as long as we win, at the moment. 

  • Back of the Net! 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Squirrelhumper    1474
9 minutes ago, Mister Y said:

Thanks for that SH...tears to a glass eye!

Tell me about it!

Hard to explain to kids what it was like growing up watching Killie back then. Night and day.

When you've got fans complaining about current players continually talking about one of the old filth and folk high up in the club tell them "people don't realise what he does behind the scenes" as if that makes it okay that he makes a mockery of us on a weekly basis and can't run 10 yards without an enhaler then you wonder why we still bother!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jamieboy    7
11 hours ago, Zorro said:

I'm a huge KS fan,but for all his visionary ideas, his downfall will always be that he's a football purist at heart. That's fine if you're Pep and have technically superior players at your disposal, but at the moment anyone managing Killie would be tasked with making a silk purse from a sows ear. 

What we really need is a manager that knows the value of old school warriors. Men that hate getting beat, no matter whether that's in a match or at training. These guys set the standards at a club. They push everyone harder in training. They make the fouls and take the booking that turn loses into draws and draws into wins. Look around our club and do you see anyone who fits that mould?

By all means get a KS type or even better KS himself in charge of youth development. I doubt there'd be a stone left unturned to find our next generation of players, and parents couldn't help but be impressed by his passion for the job, but we desperately need someone who doesn't care if we play the beautiful game or win ugly, as long as we win, at the moment. 

Spot on. Unlike some of our recent managers I actually think Kenny cared too much (if that's possible). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mclean07    188
1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Tell me about it!

Hard to explain to kids what it was like growing up watching Killie back then. Night and day.

When you've got fans complaining about current players continually talking about one of the old filth and folk high up in the club tell them "people don't realise what he does behind the scenes" as if that makes it okay that he makes a mockery of us on a weekly basis and can't run 10 yards without an enhaler then you wonder why we still bother!

You can almost feel the spirit and energy from that clip. You forget just how good Tommy Burns was for us at times. Legend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mister Y    62
52 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

You forget just how good Tommy Burns was for us at times. 

Not if you lived through it you don't. Ever!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

The Killie Trust

KFC Supporters Association

Young Kilmarnock

FC Kilmarnock

Kilmarnock FC (Official)

×