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gdevoy

Trust me, I'm a Tory

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I see Tory government ministers are legislating to hoover up all the powers released when we are no longer under the jurisdiction of the European Court so that they are under ministerial control.

We are assured that this is just an interim step, part of a process to repatriate powers which should be within the remit of the devolved administrations to the appropriate executive.

Based on their previous assurances and commitment to involve the devolved administrations in the Brexit negotiations, why should anybody believe that their actual goal is to retain powers for themselves as they only see devolution as an irritating inconvenience left behind by the previous administration. After all, anything at all devolved to Holyrood as a result would fulfil Mundel's promise that Holyrood would get "more power".  

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Brexit is really bringing out the cheapest political tricks in each party's bag.

The SNP bombarded Facebook and other social media with their Twitter-depth "explanation" of why Westminster was not giving powers "back" to Holyrood.

Of course conveniently forgetting you cannot give back something someone never had.

So the myth is born that Westminster is using Brexit to "roll back" devolution by stealth.

There is literally not a political party I do not hold in contempt at this point.

Lets go back to direct rule. Give Lizzie the reins of power and kick those where "elected to serve" to the curb..

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The SNP, as always, are spoiling for a fight, and I take your point that since it is Westminster than is organising this party, they are repatriating power from Brussels in the first instance.

However the Tories are meanwhile very carefully avoiding making any actual commitment to pass any authority, in line with the devolution settlement from Brussels to the devolved administrations. They say that the devolved administrations will have "more powers" at the end of the process which could mean they then have authority to choose new colours for the traffic lights.   

 

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I agree with what you are saying but feel the SNP's case would be stronger if they were making good use of the powers they currently have.

Between screw-ups when they do exercise powers and refusal to use others I think they could do with a bit of introspective analysis.

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Currently they seem to doing OK with infrastructure projects but the SNP record on education is woeful. And they seemed to take a bit of a kicking at the election over their obsession with indyref2.

I still don't see anything in the Tory approach to Brexit to suggest they see it as anything other than a mechanism for drawing as much power to Westminster as possible. None of the advocates of Brexit from any of the parties were Scottish, they were largely English Tories and most of them were Home counties based. IMO they see the exercise as a way of making Westminster the centre of the universe. That suits wee Nicola's agenda right down to the ground.

  

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1 hour ago, Sandman396 said:

I agree with what you are saying but feel the SNP's case would be stronger if they were making good use of the powers they currently have.

Between screw-ups when they do exercise powers and refusal to use others I think they could do with a bit of introspective analysis.

We've been repeatedly told that "The SNP are not Scotland".  The argument about where the powers should sit is simply not about them or their record.

Anyway, aren't the SNP, SLib, Slab, SGreens all singing from the same hymn sheet at the moment?  The general consensus seems to be that all powers are implicitly devolved unless they are specifically stated as reserved in the Scotland Act.

As the EU currently hold these powers, the UK government don't and they are not currently reserved to westminster, - why aren't they by default being given to the Scottish Parliament? 

When we've been told that "now is not the time" repeatedly as we should be focused on "getting a good deal", why is it acceptable to waste time and resources amending the Scotland Act?

The default position should be to respect the current Scotland Act.  The powers are implicitly Scotland's until Westminster reserve them. Not the other way around.

The interim step that @gdevoy refers to is simply unnecessary and should not be trusted.

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2 hours ago, undefined said:

We've been repeatedly told that "The SNP are not Scotland".  The argument about where the powers should sit is simply not about them or their record.

Anyway, aren't the SNP, SLib, Slab, SGreens all singing from the same hymn sheet at the moment?  The general consensus seems to be that all powers are implicitly devolved unless they are specifically stated as reserved in the Scotland Act.

As the EU currently hold these powers, the UK government don't and they are not currently reserved to westminster, - why aren't they by default being given to the Scottish Parliament? 

When we've been told that "now is not the time" repeatedly as we should be focused on "getting a good deal", why is it acceptable to waste time and resources amending the Scotland Act?

The default position should be to respect the current Scotland Act.  The powers are implicitly Scotland's until Westminster reserve them. Not the other way around.

The interim step that @gdevoy refers to is simply unnecessary and should not be trusted.

I am in a tough spot here because I don't trust the Tories or the SNP to do the right thing.

You are right when you say that SNP supporters trotted out at the Indy Ref that the "SNP are not Scotland" however those who raise their head above the parapet and question the SNP are then condemned as Anti-Scottish. Go figure

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14 minutes ago, Sandman396 said:

You are right when you say that SNP supporters trotted out at the Indy Ref that the "SNP are not Scotland" however those who raise their head above the parapet and question the SNP are then condemned as Anti-Scottish. Go figure

That's not what I said. I was actually referring to the many occasions that the unionist camp have spouted this line.

snpnotscotland.png.b39a535e2a3a58132326a131d21566b7.png

Any pro-independence people I've heard who spout that line haven't been SNP supporters.

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43 minutes ago, Sandman396 said:

I am in a tough spot here because I don't trust the Tories or the SNP to do the right thing.

Likewise. But it's the Tories who have got the ball at their feet here. The SNP are calling foul or all the wrong reasons but it's still a foul.

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It seemed yesterday that there might emerge some common cause between SNP and Tory MSPs but now Blundel has just kicked it out of court with his sneery "We in the real government will deal with this thank-you children".  

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Politicians - A pox on all their houses.

Maybe I am wearing rose-tinted glasses but I seem to remember when both Scotland and the UK in general had politicians of charisma, intelligence and character.

When did we stop that and why?

We are not alone in this as one just has to look across "the pond" at our colonial cousins to see just how bad it can get.

When I look at May, BoJo and David Davis I weep.

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1 hour ago, Sandman396 said:

Politicians - A pox on all their houses.

Too many career politicians. Students with nothing better to do with themselves deciding on a career in politics.

It used to be people had an identify in the community then went into politics to represent said community. Now they go into politics as a career choice then start hunting about for a community to represent.

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Kinda agree with your sentiment there Sandman, I think we're probably worst served by politics at the moment than at any time I can remember. Politically, I became aware in the early 80's and I don't think we've been this poorly served... very little talent or ideas and no statesmen.

Take Brexit, a massive deception played on the British people. The Leave side have went from 'its going to be easy and brilliant' to 'we'll survive'.  

And who knew all EU countries already have the power to restrict incomers for up to 3 months, for failure to find a job or provide evidence of material wealth. But no, we're told we must "take back control" to do it!

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2 hours ago, Scooter said:

Take Brexit, a massive deception played on the British people. The Leave side have went from 'its going to be easy and brilliant' to 'we'll survive'.  

Try as I might, I just cant see any benefit in leaving the EU. Even in the case of the north sea fishing industry, just withdrawing from the EU has as many -ves as +ves. The problem is the North sea is over fished and just leaving the EU is not going to make all the other boats just disappear.

To me Brexit was and still is like suggesting decapitation as a cure for brain cancer. Well it will get rid of the cancer so what is your problem.

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Fishing is meant to be the answer to Brexit... fish, fish, fishy, fish, fish ...except it makes up just .48% of GDP.

Unless we give our fish blue passports, I'm floundering!

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19 hours ago, gdevoy said:

Too many career politicians. Students with nothing better to do with themselves deciding on a career in politics.

It used to be people had an identify in the community then went into politics to represent said community. Now they go into politics as a career choice then start hunting about for a community to represent.

To me one person especially personifies this - Mhairi Black.

 

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On 20 September 2017 at 11:01 PM, Scooter said:

Fishing is meant to be the answer to Brexit... fish, fish, fishy, fish, fish ...except it makes up just .48% of GDP.

Unless we give our fish blue passports, I'm floundering!

Who's claiming this, Salmon and Sturgeon?

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Apparently May now wants to address the housing crisis by getting councils to build more houses. :2:

Is this not the work of the Antichrist according The Blessed Hilda? Margaret Hilda Thatcher, who did everything humanly possible to stop councils housing people and forced them to sell of their stock? Market forces  must be allowed to prevail or the world will drift into deep darkness, Hilda?

Shurely shome mishtake?

 

 

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Tories now want the no deal position to be planned for seriously.

IMO Nicola should state no deal means indyref2. Simplest.

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13 hours ago, gdevoy said:

Tories now want the no deal position to be planned for seriously.

IMO Nicola should state no deal means indyref2. Simplest.

There's not enough clamour for Indyref2, especially with the SNP losing a few seats at the general election.

Unfortunately we're gonna have to let the "no deal" on Brexit unfold before the majority of non political anoraks are into a second referendum. 

Once theres 6 months of no flights in or out the UK, (an absolute given and a suitable "punishment" for an Island off the continental coast eh?) people might see what we've let ourselves in for!

Edited by RAG
poor typing

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1 hour ago, RAG said:

There's not enough clamour for Indyref2, especially with the SNP losing a few seats at the general election.

Unfortunately we're gonna have to let the "no deal" on Brexit unfold before the majority of non political anoraks are into a second referendum. 

Once theres 6 months of no flights in or out the UK, (an absolute given and a suitable "punishment" for an Island off the continental coast eh?) people might see what we've let ourselves in for!

I'm genuinely getting the fear about brexit. Even a soft brext is looking pretty disasterous when you see the projected effect on living standards. I'm sickened as well with the craven attitude of many MPs, just crumbling in the face of brexit bullying. Caroline Flint, for instance, has really got on my tackities. Does anyone think Farage and co would just have accepted it if the vote had gone the other way? I still somehow hope it won't happen.

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7 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

I still somehow hope it won't happen.

Thats why we'll "crash out" man, before the 2 year negotiating process ends and theres a chance to reverse the decision.

Once people realise we're effectively pulling the drawbridge up and charging 10% on goods coming into the UK, folk aint gonna be happy.

If there was a second EU referendum, knowing what we know about Brexit now, (e.g. Brexit costs £100 billion) is no way they'd get a leave vote in my opinion.  

Turkeys dont (knowingly) vote for Christmas and the Tories will do anything to hang onto power and not lose face - including "crashing out".

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Look, there is not a single Scottish (treacherous bastard back stabbing right wing fruitcake) Tory bastard MP who supports No Deal as a microscopically sane position. So Nicola has unity there. The Tories don't like the lefties and the Nats but  even they cannot sell no deal as good for Scotland. Fighting no deal is our patriotic duty and I am sure Nicola could paste something together we can all sign up to.

Edited by gdevoy

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9 hours ago, gdevoy said:

Look, there is not a single Scottish (treacherous bastard back stabbing right wing fruitcake) Tory bastard MP who supports No Deal as a microscopically sane position. So Nicola has unity there. The Tories don't like the lefties and the Nats but  even they cannot sell no deal as good for Scotland. Fighting no deal is our patriotic duty and I am sure Nicola could paste something together we can all sign up to.

None of them supported Brexit either and now they all sing from London’s song sheet about what a great opportunity it is etc. They will do and say anything London tells them. 

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11 hours ago, Zorro said:

None of them supported Brexit either and now they all sing from London’s song sheet about what a great opportunity it is etc. They will do and say anything London tells them. 

It that case they all deserve to be hung draw and quartered as traitors because, "out the EU with no deal" would be economic disaster an treachery to the Scottish people.

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