killiehippo Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 I think if teams like Norwich, Fulham and Cardiff are interested it tells you that these teams think he is potential Championship material as the raw ability is there and he can be coached. If he has to be sold get them bidding, I'd be looking for about £1m. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenh Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 I think he is happy where he is at the moment but money speaks and would not blame the guy for moving on. After watching his reaction to Celtics 2nd goal the other week he looked totally p***ed off and think he will give Killie everything while with us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoydsFace Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 On 9/21/2017 at 11:22 AM, piffer said: I don't think he's worth anymore than £300k at the moment. He's entertaining and a joy to watch but his assists and goals still leave a lot to be desired. When he finds consistent end product we will struggle to hold on to him. He has the skill and potential to be worth a lot but he's got to deliver week in week out to command a big fee. Having said that the English market is crazy and could potentially be worse in January when teams are panicking or giving that little bit extra in their promotion push Whatever he is worth I would x10 and ask for that. Ask for £2-£3million..........if they don't want to pay this let them work it down. I would hope that teams already do this but sometimes players leave Scotland for shocking prices compared to moving down south. As I type this I'm effectively thinking out loud, perhaps clubs come in and say: Either sell us him for £300k with a 25% sell on (so big potential down there if he does do well and go for crazy money) OR Sell him to us for £1 million/£2 million or whatever and forget the sell on clause. Not sure about anyone else but I would always take the cash up front. When you see guys like Chris Woods moving for £15million or Ross McCormack for £13m (twice I believe) then the clause may of course be worth more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanEwart Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 On 9/21/2017 at 9:02 AM, Harrogate Peter said: If we could remedy final ball/end product issue then you might be talking £2million. Clearly that's the future for clubs like us so a bit disappointing that management team haven't resolved the issue yet! On 9/21/2017 at 4:12 PM, All the Wine said: The lads final ball and finishing is chronic most times, and he makes poor decisions hence why he's with us. I was hoping for a big season from him this year, around 10 goals perhaps, doubt he'll get that. Bags of potential but in reality if you were to get 500k for him right now it'd be a fair price. I'd like to see him stay and develop though We need to forget about the silly money getting thrown about down south. As someone said to me at Hamilton earlier in the year, "if they were any good, they wouldn't be at Hamilton on a February afternoon". I remember big Mixu saying something like he was trying to get better players into the squad, and if he couldn't do that then he would make those he had better. It gets frustrating watching players with nothing to do all day but practice and hone their technique, continually fail to cross the ball effectively. Whenever players from the eighties get mentioned on here, I am told they were rubbish. There was a reason for that, I think- they were part time and playing football while working as van drivers, lorry drivers, taxi drivers, machine operators, labourers and bankers and had less time to practice their skills.Today's full time players have no such excuse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorielus Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 2 hours ago, DuncanEwart said: I remember big Mixu saying something like he was trying to get better players into the squad, and if he couldn't do that then he would make those he had better. It gets frustrating watching players with nothing to do all day but practice and hone their technique, continually fail to cross the ball effectively. I agree to an extent, but I think there's is a bit of a lack of context around the difficulty of crossing the ball. Outside of Eremenko, the best passer of the ball I've seen play for Kilmarnock was Nevin. Burns and Durrant were probably his equal in terms of execution, but Nevin (in my opinion of course) had more imagination. By the time he played for us, he had no pace at all, and still rarely failed to get a good cross in when going wide. The reason for that was his play style - he didn't move the ball around the defender, he forced the defender to get out his way with his body movement. The big advantage of that is that it means you're not running at a dead sprint when trying to cross - in my opinion one of the most difficult things in football to do. Specifically regarding Jones, I'm certainly not going to claim he's a world beater - but I'm of the opinion it's not so much coaching of him that needs to be done (doubtlessly he could benefit from it of course), but our chronically awful movement up front. The guy beats players regularly with sheer pace and because he's running a a dead sprint, it is virtually impossible to his a whipped, measured cross with height, so the far more reliable option to get it into a dangerous area is to hit it low to the front post or across the six yard box, which he generally manages several times a game. I'm yet to see the legendary Boyd predatory instinct make a front post run. Even if the thinking is that it's the wrong pass from Jones, you know it's coming, so why not make that run? I guess my point here is that "end product" (a term I hate as it pretty much means that unless you're directly assisting or scoring, you don't contribute anything on a football park) isn't just the responsiblity of the "creator", the finisher has to have the nous to read the play, something that Boyd used to be excellent at and seems to have lost completely. Unfortunately, we don't appear to have signed anyone that does have that ability at the moment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangodog Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 On today's showing, not very much. Very poor decisions on when to shoot and when to pass, scoring that deflected goal last week maybe made him think he can shoot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piffer Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 He was very good carrying the ball forward today but his final ball always seemed to let him down. When the glory was there for him he elected to pass and when the pass was on he chose to shoot. He certainly had the beating of their RB but we seem reluctant to keep hitting the same weakness. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 12 minutes ago, piffer said: He was very good carrying the ball forward today but his final ball always seemed to let him down. When the glory was there for him he elected to pass and when the pass was on he chose to shoot. He certainly had the beating of their RB but we seem reluctant to keep hitting the same weakness. Correct over rated no final ball has in bolt could run by the same way 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Robertson Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 On 9/23/2017 at 10:58 AM, Lorielus said: I agree to an extent, but I think there's is a bit of a lack of context around the difficulty of crossing the ball. Outside of Eremenko, the best passer of the ball I've seen play for Kilmarnock was Nevin. Burns and Durrant were probably his equal in terms of execution, but Nevin (in my opinion of course) had more imagination. By the time he played for us, he had no pace at all, and still rarely failed to get a good cross in when going wide. The reason for that was his play style - he didn't move the ball around the defender, he forced the defender to get out his way with his body movement. The big advantage of that is that it means you're not running at a dead sprint when trying to cross - in my opinion one of the most difficult things in football to do. Specifically regarding Jones, I'm certainly not going to claim he's a world beater - but I'm of the opinion it's not so much coaching of him that needs to be done (doubtlessly he could benefit from it of course), but our chronically awful movement up front. The guy beats players regularly with sheer pace and because he's running a a dead sprint, it is virtually impossible to his a whipped, measured cross with height, so the far more reliable option to get it into a dangerous area is to hit it low to the front post or across the six yard box, which he generally manages several times a game. I'm yet to see the legendary Boyd predatory instinct make a front post run. Even if the thinking is that it's the wrong pass from Jones, you know it's coming, so why not make that run? I guess my point here is that "end product" (a term I hate as it pretty much means that unless you're directly assisting or scoring, you don't contribute anything on a football park) isn't just the responsiblity of the "creator", the finisher has to have the nous to read the play, something that Boyd used to be excellent at and seems to have lost completely. Unfortunately, we don't appear to have signed anyone that does have that ability at the moment. I agree with most of that. What annoys me most about JJs play isn't much to do with him, it's more to do with those round about him. I get frustrated when the opposition defenders consistently double, and sometimes triple up against him (he's obviously seen as our danger man) Now in my many years of playing football, if the opposition does that it creates space in other more dangerous areas of the pitch. Why are our midfield and strikers not utilising that free space on the park? In my mind if one of our players offered the short pass to JJ it would pull one of the defenders away from him making it easier to deliver a better ball and it would possibly pull another defender out of position leaving more space for the striker(s) But then I'm not as tactically aware as Jig 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangodog Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 His biggest problem is that he doesn't look up, so isn't aware of where his teammates are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraz65 Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 (edited) It's not often that a young wide player is better in his second season. Most full backs have them figured out after playing against them three or four times. Credit to Jones that he seems to be improving. Edited September 24, 2017 by fraz65 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killiehippo Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 Cardiff had a scout at the game yesterday, they have been watching him since last season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouser2 Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 In Kiltie's absence Jones is one of the few players we have who can cause problems for the opposition , yes there are glaring weak parts to his game that needs work by the player and properly coached to improve on ......he is still at a relative young age and development when you consider his background before signed for us .... .I can see a few clubs willing to take a gamble on Jones 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorielus Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 (edited) On 23/09/2017 at 6:27 PM, [email protected] said: Correct over rated no final ball has in bolt could run by the same way - Set up Findlay's header in the first half, should have been a goal if he'd placed it either side of the goalkeeper - Put one on a plate for Frizzel in the first that he managed to hit the defender with when it looked easier to score - Took the corner for the goal But yeah, no final ball, only helped make a goal and several excellent chances. Iniesta he's not, but a very useful player at our level. Edited September 24, 2017 by Lorielus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangodog Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 52 minutes ago, Lorielus said: - Set up Findlay's header in the first half, should have been a goal if he'd placed it either side of the goalkeeper - Put one on a plate for Frizzel in the first that he managed to hit the defender with when it looked easier to score - Took the corner for the goal But yeah, no final ball, only helped make a goal and several excellent chances. Iniesta he's not, but a very useful player at our level. Six corners, he got one right. Blasted a ball against a defender when Boyd was free in the box. Involved himself in a fracas at the end of the first half which could have got him sent off. He is talented but he is far removed from the finished article. Similar in many ways to James Dayton who was very talented but equally frustrating. If the rumours are correct and four clubs are monitoring him then we aren't going to keep him but should get decent money for him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrogate Peter Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 To me it was a typical frustrating Jones performance yesterday. He looked dangerous and you keep hoping something will come of it. To be fair it must be hard to be accurate when moving at his pace and the ones that do that consistently are the real world beaters but his decisions are usually wrong. Hitting one decent corner that led to Boyd's assist for the goal doesn't a man of the match make but there weren't that many candidates! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorielus Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Wrangodog said: Six corners, he got one right. Blasted a ball against a defender when Boyd was free in the box. Involved himself in a fracas at the end of the first half which could have got him sent off. He is talented but he is far removed from the finished article. Similar in many ways to James Dayton who was very talented but equally frustrating. If the rumours are correct and four clubs are monitoring him then we aren't going to keep him but should get decent money for him. I don't disagree, but the guy created enough chances for us to win the game comfortably with better finishing, which is outside of his control. To say all he can do is run is just plain untrue, which is the point I was addressing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestersKtid Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 13 hours ago, Wrangodog said: Six corners, he got one right. Blasted a ball against a defender when Boyd was free in the box. Involved himself in a fracas at the end of the first half which could have got him sent off. He is talented but he is far removed from the finished article. Similar in many ways to James Dayton who was very talented but equally frustrating. If the rumours are correct and four clubs are monitoring him then we aren't going to keep him but should get decent money for him. Agree with Jones but Dayton often had an end product, certainly scored more goals and had a good delivery. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangodog Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, Lorielus said: I don't disagree, but the guy created enough chances for us to win the game comfortably with better finishing, which is outside of his control. To say all he can do is run is just plain untrue, which is the point I was addressing. Hawkshaw created four chances. Two for us and two for Dundee. That was the positive on Saturday, we were creating chances, at least in the first half. Edited September 25, 2017 by Wrangodog 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 20 hours ago, Lorielus said: - Set up Findlay's header in the first half, should have been a goal if he'd placed it either side of the goalkeeper - Put one on a plate for Frizzel in the first that he managed to hit the defender with when it looked easier to score - Took the corner for the goal But yeah, no final ball, only helped make a goal and several excellent chances. Iniesta he's not, but a very useful player at our level. What at diy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Cuthill Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 I hope that, now he's been selected for international duty, he will get a bit of good coaching from the NI people. Not convinced about our coaching staff, and don't see a huge improvement in the boy's play. He is, after all only 22 (?) and seems to be "learning on the job", only it's a DIY process at our Club. I'd like to see him complete this season, then we'll see... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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