Zorro Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 1 hour ago, gdevoy said: IMO the bounce of the surface at RP is "queer" also the players seem to loose their footing rather a lot. All this should be irrelevant as it is the same for both teams, in fact you would think it would favour us as we are "used to it". What I propose is that having to cope with the funny bounce and slipping about all over the place all the time for every home game has a -ve effect on the players state of mind. The just find it hard to turn in a performance in such predictably unpredictable conditions. Just my suggestion. Exactly the same suggestion I’ve proposed for ages. Playing and training on it is clearly mentally and possibly physically draining for our players. Not just this group of players, but any group exposed to it for any length of time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 I think the plastic pitch is having a detremental affect on the players mental approach to the game . They will have read all sorts of articles about the negative long term effects of playing on such a surface that it’s bound to be at the back of there minds somewhere , this allied with poor starts against teams and the mindset alters somewhat . A sports psychologist may have an effect 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 The poor home form goes way back before the plastic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 27 minutes ago, Bobby said: The poor home form goes way back before the plastic. Can you be specific and say which years you are referring to? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmcc Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Boyd's comments on Sportsound were telling it think. He was very hesitant, then managed to get out, "its fine when its wet". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Bobby said: The poor home form goes way back before the plastic. Yeah but then the away form was crap as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killieblues Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) Season Total Home Win Draw Loss 2016/17 19 4 7 8 2015/16 19 4 4 11 2014/15 18 7 1 10 2013/14 19 7 3 9 2012/13 19 5 4 10 2011/12 20 6 7 7 2010/11 18 6 4 8 2009/10 19 5 6 8 ...if this helps. Obviously squad quality should be taken into account as well.This shows that the year we had it installed we went onto equal the best home wins in the last 8 seasons. Edited November 28, 2017 by killieblues 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Robertson Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Here's my take on it for what its worth (probably very little) I coached, played and managed a couple of amateur teams and coached youth teams for years. The weather in Ayrshire, coupled with the ever diminishing number of decent grass pitches, meant we had to train and play on 3g, particularly during the winter. I have never seen on grass the amounts of injuries and niggles myself and my players picked up on astro. I was dealing with ankle strains, knee, hip and back problems on a consistent basis. So much so that I had the players train in astro gutties not boots. Astro is a very unforgiving surface when stopping, starting and turning quickly as you do in football. I even eventually banned my players from wearing blades and tried to talk them all into wearing soft mouldies which did see a bit of improvement in the injuries.My evidence is anecdotal but I know that the injuries were worse in my youth players, maybe something to do with growing bodies but I didn't see the frequency of injuries when I coached youth teams on grass before Football is a grass sport, I think in 20-30 years you will see a huge increase in back, knee and hip problems among elderly people who played on astro. I see it now with people my age at fives on 3g. It must be much worse being a professional player who is on it for hours a day training and playing on it. It does appear to have a detrimental effect on our players, it can't all be down to having crap managers or players 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathematics Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Last season and 2012/13 had the same points per game. Season before last was the worst in eight years. Average over these eight years is 1.11 points per game. However, stats are misleading - this table suggests that we might want AJ back. season ppg 2016 1.00 Clarke/McCulloch 2015 0.84 Locke/Clarke 2014 1.22 Jonston/Locke 2013 1.26 Johnston 2012 1.00 Shiels 2011 1.25 Shiels 2010 1.22 Mixu/Shiels 2009 1.11 Jeffries/Calderwood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathematics Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, Mark Robertson said: So much so that I had the players train in astro gutties not boots. Astro is a very unforgiving surface when stopping, starting and turning quickly as you do in football. I even eventually banned my players from wearing blades and tried to talk them all into wearing soft mouldies which did see a bit of improvement in the injuries. If the players were playing on 3G whilst wearing blades, or standard boots, then they were not using appropriate footwear. I noticed a huge difference (in my shin splints) when I switched from blades to astro-turf trainers. If only I'd read the huge signs telling me that blades were not appropriate sooner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 23 minutes ago, mathematics said: Last season and 2012/13 had the same points per game. Season before last was the worst in eight years. Average over these eight years is 1.11 points per game. However, stats are misleading - this table suggests that we might want AJ back. season ppg 2013 1.26 Johnston 2010 1.22 Mixu/Shiels I no understand . How come we finished top six with a lower points per game than when we avoided the relegation playoffs on the last day? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 15 minutes ago, gdevoy said: I no understand . How come we finished top six with a lower points per game than when we avoided the relegation playoffs on the last day? Did we win any in the top six? Maybe that's where the oddness comes from. Winning post split in the bottom, as opposed to hee haw in the top. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 51 minutes ago, CB said: Did we win any in the top six? Maybe that's where the oddness comes from. Winning post split in the bottom, as opposed to hee haw in the top. Never thought of that.... (Then the above is not comparing like with like really.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrogate Peter Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Ah! Those great days when we WON at home at all. Seriously I think that the first season on the plastic pitch we had a slight advantage that was long ago cancelled out. In fact, if I remember correctly we had a good start at home that season which tailed off? Figures suggest it's been tailing off ever since! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Harrogate Peter said: Seriously I think that the first season on the plastic pitch we had a slight advantage that was long ago cancelled out. In fact, if I remember correctly we had a good start at home that season which tailed off? Was that not the season we started off getting gubbed 0-4 off Dundee at home, then 0-4 off Rosco at home? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) Haven't read all of this so apologies if already brought up. Project brave has a minimum requirement in terms of training facilities, I would be amazed if all weather pitches, or even indoor pitches is not included. We have been awarded elite status(or whatever it's called), so we must have all the necessary facilities in place and we have been looking at land to set up a training academy apparently. So once we have this in place we no longer have the need for the plastic pitch, the only positive for the pitch is that it is used all the time, well the new place can be utilised going forward, not Rugby Park.. So surely then we can revert to grass, mind you it aint going to be cheap to do both, but we are signed up for Brave. I hate the pitch as much as anyone, we once had the best surface in the country bar none, then Rangers stole our groundsman and the stands went up, which both impacted the surface. But technology has moved on and perhaps we could return to a first class grass surface. The pitch cannot be blamed for results, forget that, both teams play on it, and every other team manages on it. As said elsewhere we should consider an exorcisms or whatever its called to ward off the evil spirits, it can only be cursed. Edited November 28, 2017 by Andy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killieblues Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 I was talking to someone down here that works with supplying hybrid pitches, and he was saying that Celtic are getting one. It's the same surface that Derby County are playing on. A mix of grass and plastic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skygod Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 7 hours ago, Bonbon19 said: A sports psychologist may have an effect Only if he is driving an excavator.... 1 hour ago, gdevoy said: Was that not the season we started off getting gubbed 0-4 off Dundee at home, then 0-4 off Rosco at home? No, it wasn't. The first season with the new pitch started with a defeat to Aberdeen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangodog Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 13 minutes ago, killieblues said: I was talking to someone down here that works with supplying hybrid pitches, and he was saying that Celtic are getting one. It's the same surface that Derby County are playing on. A mix of grass and plastic. Hearts were meant to be installing a hybrid surface at around £1.2m but put it back in their attempt to qualify for Europe. Celtic had to put installation of their £2m hybrid pitch off because of qualification dates for the Champions League, but did the preparation work for it so they could rip up the turf and finish installation at the end of this season. I doubt if we could afford that kind of money though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrogate Peter Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 3 hours ago, skygod said: Only if he is driving an excavator.... No, it wasn't. The first season with the new pitch started with a defeat to Aberdeen. After losing to Aberdeen in August 2014 we beat Motherwell, St Mirren, Partick Thistle and Dundee United at home in the league plus the country cousins in league cup the only blemish being a narrow defeat to St. Johnstone in the league cup. That took us to November and then we lost five of the next six home games and it's been like that ever since. I'm pretty sure that at the October league match in Perth (which we also won) their programme actually discussed whether the plastic was an advantage ........ how times change! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Robertson Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 On 11/28/2017 at 1:17 PM, mathematics said: If the players were playing on 3G whilst wearing blades, or standard boots, then they were not using appropriate footwear. I noticed a huge difference (in my shin splints) when I switched from blades to astro-turf trainers. If only I'd read the huge signs telling me that blades were not appropriate sooner. Sorry for the late reply, I never seen any warning signs regarding appropriate footwear but it was a few years ago that I coached. I also found it difficult to get through to players, both senior and youth, who had spent a small fortune on the latest trendy boots 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Lane Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 On 11/28/2017 at 1:07 PM, Mark Robertson said: Here's my take on it for what its worth (probably very little) I coached, played and managed a couple of amateur teams and coached youth teams for years. The weather in Ayrshire, coupled with the ever diminishing number of decent grass pitches, meant we had to train and play on 3g, particularly during the winter. I have never seen on grass the amounts of injuries and niggles myself and my players picked up on astro. I was dealing with ankle strains, knee, hip and back problems on a consistent basis. So much so that I had the players train in astro gutties not boots. Astro is a very unforgiving surface when stopping, starting and turning quickly as you do in football. I even eventually banned my players from wearing blades and tried to talk them all into wearing soft mouldies which did see a bit of improvement in the injuries.My evidence is anecdotal but I know that the injuries were worse in my youth players, maybe something to do with growing bodies but I didn't see the frequency of injuries when I coached youth teams on grass before Football is a grass sport, I think in 20-30 years you will see a huge increase in back, knee and hip problems among elderly people who played on astro. I see it now with people my age at fives on 3g. It must be much worse being a professional player who is on it for hours a day training and playing on it. It does appear to have a detrimental effect on our players, it can't all be down to having crap managers or players Couldn't agree more - players playing regularly on these astograss pitches are building up problems such as osteoarthritis which will come to the fore in their 40s and 50s! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Brown Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 Not to everyones taste but a hypnotist could be the answer,several clubs have used this route in the past Get the first team squad to have two or three sessions with a hypnotist and it may be enough to break the spell. I seem to remember one notable success a few years back , when bobby Robson was Ipswich manager.Anyway they were struggling in the relegation zone and Robson got a hypnotist in , and by the seasons end they had finished third top,so maybe it's worth a try. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killjoy1869 Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 1:17 PM, mathematics said: If the players were playing on 3G whilst wearing blades, or standard boots, then they were not using appropriate footwear. I noticed a huge difference (in my shin splints) when I switched from blades to astro-turf trainers. If only I'd read the huge signs telling me that blades were not appropriate sooner. Both 3G pitches I play on don’t allow you to wear Astro trainers as they apparently flatten the pile. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby14 Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 1:07 PM, Mark Robertson said: Here's my take on it for what its worth (probably very little) I coached, played and managed a couple of amateur teams and coached youth teams for years. The weather in Ayrshire, coupled with the ever diminishing number of decent grass pitches, meant we had to train and play on 3g, particularly during the winter. I have never seen on grass the amounts of injuries and niggles myself and my players picked up on astro. I was dealing with ankle strains, knee, hip and back problems on a consistent basis. So much so that I had the players train in astro gutties not boots. Astro is a very unforgiving surface when stopping, starting and turning quickly as you do in football. I even eventually banned my players from wearing blades and tried to talk them all into wearing soft mouldies which did see a bit of improvement in the injuries.My evidence is anecdotal but I know that the injuries were worse in my youth players, maybe something to do with growing bodies but I didn't see the frequency of injuries when I coached youth teams on grass before Football is a grass sport, I think in 20-30 years you will see a huge increase in back, knee and hip problems among elderly people who played on astro. I see it now with people my age at fives on 3g. It must be much worse being a professional player who is on it for hours a day training and playing on it. It does appear to have a detrimental effect on our players, it can't all be down to having crap managers or players I don’t like the astro turf at RP, top flight football should be played on grass... But I don’t buy into the injuries theory with the modern surfaces. They’ve came on leaps and bounds even in the last 10 years and I’d rather play on a new AstroTurf than the cow fields of the amateur leagues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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