gdevoy Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Gaz of the 20/20 said: Surely this thread is a wind up or the original poster has underlying emotional issues which have surfaced due to the boredom of the winter break. I'm for option 2 here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncD Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 2 hours ago, skygod said: it would be good if more clubs had their own songs which were unique to them rather than adapting others’. It would also be good if Lee Erwin got a boot up the a*se and started trying and we sold Stevie Smith to the glue factory. These things don’t always happen though do they Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan76 Posted January 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Ok debate has been open and views aired. Unlike Nicoal Surgeon i accept that 37% does not make a majority and accept that fans still want to and are free to sing this song. Like others have said, if you don't like it , don't sing it. I thought it was worth to ask the question, and exepected to get shot down in flames, though i am surprised that 37% did agree. It will be a debate that will go on, but for now, moderators, i feel it is time to close this poll, could you do the honours? Cheers -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmcc Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 I haven't voted cos I genuinely dont know with this one. I'm sitting on the fence. It's not a line that I sing because of the ambiguity of it and it's always kinda felt a bit close to the line. So I guess I'm leaning off the fence whilst still sitting on it. Yes, we all know what it means, but others dont. Of course its nothing to do with black people, but the phrase 'black bastards' has taken a whole new meaning in the last 20 years, and perhaps it's not for us to try to direct what it means out of some, perhaps, stubborn tradition. If the 'N' word is top of the 'dont say it' list, then I'd suggest the phrase in question would be second on that list when used in a racist context. As above, language changes, perhaps so should football songs. It would be dead easy to sing 'scum' or 'dirty', and I say that, because I dont really associate them as playing in the colour black tbh so I always took the meaning to mean dirty/unwashed. I'm trying to think of an equivalent, but I guess there isn't one. There's been words used extensively in the past, that folk just dont use anymore. But that doesn't really apply here given 'our' word has an entirely different meaning. Would we though sing a song for example saying we gayly celebrated a cup win? No we wouldn't because the meaning of the word 'gay' has changed predominantly from happy to, well, gay. Is there an argument to say that using the word 'black' is inappropriate to use when describing someone as dirty? There probably is, but I'm not going to make it, cos that feels a bit snowflake. I guess the word fenian used to have a more acceptable meaning, but has evolved into derogatory term to describe catholic folk, mainly thanks to bigots. I'm not waving any flags about the song, or reporting us to the papers, I'm just saying I'm not 100% comfortable with it. What I do agree on tho with the vast majority on here, is that folk are going out of their way these days to find ways to be offended. It's currently around the gender issue, and whilst some of it is over the top (the 'boys will be boys' tshirt being the most recent one I saw), I'm glad that our country takes a progressive view on those types of things with regard to making society a better, more comfortable place to be. I dunno, it's a minefield. Perhaps ask yourself this, why not just change it to 'scum bastards' instead, and then remove all ambiguity? -2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fankle Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) ^^^ Excellent post. Don't know about anybody else but I can't remember recently calling anybody a "black bas" or a "blacko" for doing something manky, which I certainly did a lot years ago. Back then there were virtually no black footballers in Scotland either which is no longer the case. I definitely don't feel comfortable with chanting stuff that could be misunderstood as racist abuse by players involved in a game you're watching. Edited January 5, 2018 by Fankle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanEwart Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 I'm guessing Victor Kasule could tell a tale or two about being a black footballer in Scotland in the eighties. I remember being at Firhill when Killie had Rashid Sarwar in midfield and Thistle had Joey Pathak playing there, which lead to chants from some Killie fans of "Our player from the Pakistani diaspora is better than your player from the Pakistani diaspora", but obviously I'm paraphrasing. That wouldn't happen now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pompey Repatriated Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Never heard of Rashid. These days we'd celebrate a player like him as good for the game. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MaaCAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=rashid+sarwar+kilmarnock&source=bl&ots=rNi_5LVZ87&sig=8-9QwYXCN9r3akzbDpSeMoTfS6s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj5iMbW5MDYAhXsCsAKHRT7CJoQ6AEILjAE#v=onepage&q=rashid sarwar kilmarnock&f=false Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan76 Posted January 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Isle of Wight Exile said: Never heard of Rashid. These days we'd celebrate a player like him as good for the game. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MaaCAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=rashid+sarwar+kilmarnock&source=bl&ots=rNi_5LVZ87&sig=8-9QwYXCN9r3akzbDpSeMoTfS6s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj5iMbW5MDYAhXsCsAKHRT7CJoQ6AEILjAE#v=onepage&q=rashid sarwar kilmarnock&f=false Good read, I remember him. Surprising how few Asian players there are at top level, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pompey Repatriated Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Michael Chopra only one that comes to mind. I don't know if it's a historical thing as their ancestors wouldn't have watched football but you think that wouldn't have an influence now. Still very few black Scottish players too. Emmanuel Panther, Anya, Iwelumo and earlier Harper though he was English. Did someone say Cameron is from Egypt? Shaun Maloney was of course from Malaysia and Richard Gough South Africa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanEwart Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Back then, such delineations like actual country of origin were not given consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanEwart Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 15 minutes ago, Isle of Wight Exile said: Never heard of Rashid. These days we'd celebrate a player like him as good for the game. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MaaCAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=rashid+sarwar+kilmarnock&source=bl&ots=rNi_5LVZ87&sig=8-9QwYXCN9r3akzbDpSeMoTfS6s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj5iMbW5MDYAhXsCsAKHRT7CJoQ6AEILjAE#v=onepage&q=rashid sarwar kilmarnock&f=false You obviously never saw him play . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan76 Posted January 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Isle of Wight Exile said: Michael Chopra only one that comes to mind. I don't know if it's a historical thing as their ancestors wouldn't have watched football but you think that wouldn't have an influence now. Still very few black Scottish players too. Emmanuel Panther, Anya, Iwelumo and earlier Harper though he was English. Did someone say Cameron is from Egypt? Shaun Maloney was of course from Malaysia and Richard Gough South Africa I think Rangers had an Asian player couple seasons ago, never really made the first team though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanEwart Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Isle of Wight Exile said: Michael Chopra only one that comes to mind. I don't know if it's a historical thing as their ancestors wouldn't have watched football but you think that wouldn't have an influence now. Still very few black Scottish players too. Emmanuel Panther, Anya, Iwelumo and earlier Harper though he was English. Did someone say Cameron is from Egypt? Shaun Maloney was of course from Malaysia and Richard Gough South Africa There was also Michael McArthur from Kilwinning, who played for Aberdeen and Killie. Jim Fleeting proclaimed he would be the first black footballer to play for Scotland. He wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skygod Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, david mcbeth said: Thought Joey Pathak was Indian? “****” was commonly used as the catch-all term for anyone from the Indian sub-continent. Except Sikhs maybe, who were more identifiably Indian. Many were Ugandan Asians who had probably never been outside of Africa before coming to the UK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pompey Repatriated Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Perhaps this topic should be split as we've gone off tangent but it's quite interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pompey Repatriated Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, DuncanEwart said: There was also Michael McArthur from Kilwinning, who played for Aberdeen and Killie. Jim Fleeting proclaimed he would be the first black footballer to play for Scotland. He wasn't. Was year was that? I think Emilio Jaconelli may have had Italian roots... At that time we also had Di Giacomo and Canero. All very Scottish sounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plunkit Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, DuncanEwart said: There was also Michael McArthur from Kilwinning, who played for Aberdeen and Killie. Jim Fleeting proclaimed he would be the first black footballer to play for Scotland. He wasn't. Andrew Watson beat him by about 110 years 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 I blame Steve Clarke for all this. Back in the Locke/Clark/McCulloch days we didn’t have much to sing about so this wasn’t an issue. Damn you Clarke and the positivity you’ve brought to the club. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanEwart Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, plunkit said: Andrew Watson beat him by about 110 years Also- McArthur wasn't very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanEwart Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, Isle of Wight Exile said: Was year was that? I think Emilio Jaconelli may have had Italian roots... At that time we also had Di Giacomo and Canero. All very Scottish sounding. Sorry should have said Jim Fleeting signed him. In January 1990. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Killie Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 I remember when I first moved to Bristol and using the term 'black' at the school, it didn't go down too well. Was at Easter Road on Saturday with my brother in law from Manchester and funnily enough this was something that he picked up on. I explained it to him and he could understand us singing it but, similar to what people have mentioned before, thought it could easily be taken out of context. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestersKtid Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) If you’re going to ban songs for the odd swear word or misenterpreted word (black) then Why not just get rid of all songs about the opponents? The songs between clubs out with the old filth are for the most part meant to be banter between fans. We chant about Ayr relentlessly and they chant about us but there are next to no actual comings together to reflect those songs. I think it’s going overboard, agree with earlier posts that add white in with black to avoid racial connotations or change black to dirty but you’re never getting rid of swearing from football. It should be cut down but it’s too ingrained in our culture Edited January 5, 2018 by PrestersKtid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan76 Posted January 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, PrestersKtid said: If you’re going to ban songs for the odd swear word or misenterpreted word (black) then Why not just get rid of all songs about the opponents? The songs between clubs out with the old filth are for the most part meant to be banter between fans. We chant about Ayr relentlessly and they chant about us but there are next to no actual comings together to reflect those songs. I think it’s going overboard, agree with earlier posts that add white in with black to avoid racial connotations but you’re never getting rid of swearing from football. It should be cut down but it’s too ingrained in our culture I'd go with this, white and black would take out any misconceptions. Would say it is a sound and fair suggestion -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan76 Posted January 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, PrestersKtid said: If you’re going to ban songs for the odd swear word or misenterpreted word (black) then Why not just get rid of all songs about the opponents? The songs between clubs out with the old filth are for the most part meant to be banter between fans. We chant about Ayr relentlessly and they chant about us but there are next to no actual comings together to reflect those songs. I think it’s going overboard, agree with earlier posts that add white in with black to avoid racial connotations but you’re never getting rid of swearing from football. It should be cut down but it’s too ingrained in our culture I'd go with this, white and black would take out any misconceptions. Would say it is a sound and fair suggestion -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offday281 Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 I'm highly offended by the use of the word white if you want all songs to be PC and not offend anyone there would be no songs about the opposition no cursing of any sort , no songs about winning more than other teams . I an also offended by paper roses as I wanted real ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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