CardinalSpin Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 It is rather frustrating when people criticise a perceived lack of activity, but are not prepared to do anything themselves. At some stage, if you feel strongly about something, you need to get off your @rse and do something about it. If you really feel strongly about this all you have to do is join the Trust send an email and attend a meeting (most of which can be done from your keyboard). Is that too much to ask? Don't criticise someone else for not doing something when the solution is in your own hands. A large number members emails are no longer valid despite strenuous attempts by the Trust to get members to provide their current email addresses. A letter drop takes three weeks to arrange and process (I know, I've done it for several AGMs), then you have to wait for replies (if they come). Timescale is too long. Sorry for the rant, but as I say, frustrating 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
under5 Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, CardinalSpin said: It is rather frustrating when people criticise a perceived lack of activity, but are not prepared to do anything themselves. At some stage, if you feel strongly about something, you need to get off your @rse and do something about it. If you really feel strongly about this all you have to do is join the Trust send an email and attend a meeting (most of which can be done from your keyboard). Is that too much to ask? Don't criticise someone else for not doing something when the solution is in your own hands. A large number members emails are no longer valid despite strenuous attempts by the Trust to get members to provide their current email addresses. A letter drop takes three weeks to arrange and process (I know, I've done it for several AGMs), then you have to wait for replies (if they come). Timescale is too long. Sorry for the rant, but as I say, frustrating Cardinal, I never suggested there was a lack of activity but the activity it seems is a stumbling block in terms of the support for EGM. I am in the trust already as I have said. I don't have the time to sit on my @rse to get off it, as I run my own business. Higgy has got off his @rse and done a lot of work and needs the trust's support and as yet it is not forthcoming. I don't know the ins and outs of the idea of getting a trust member on the board but I feel like Bomber does that many have tried and failed, tricky Mickey along with his pal are the majority shareholders and sticking £100k in to get a seat on the board, sadly imo is a waste of time and money, and I know the cash is likely to be ring fenced. I just don't see what difference being on the board will make. I feel the EGM is a real chance to get rid of MJ. Not sure if your whole post was aimed at me or even any of it. But I feel the trust should support the EGM and as a member I have not been consulted, seems the decision not to has been made by the Trust board. That was my point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
under5 Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 8 hours ago, baz said: There's a lot of stuff going on in the background that everyone is not aware of. I've been in plenty of meetings over the last few weeks and there are more scheduled for tomorrow. You really think that anyone is sitting on their hands here? There is a lot more on the go than just the call for an EGM, and a lot of people involved that could potentially make a lot more difference than us confirming to MJ what we think about him and where we would like him to go. I am sure this is the case Baz. But as you have said you support the EGM movement as well! Therefore you must feel that both the trust's actions along with the EGM is the way to go. Im happy to support both. I feel the trust should support the EGM as well as continuing with their own work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plunkit Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 I feel I need to jump in here as there is a clear misunderstanding of the Trust’s position in this. Higgy does indeed appear to have put in a power of work here. I would be as bold as to suggest that the work that the Trust board has put into getting us to the position we are with the club is considerably more. People on here who are not privvy to that work, or indeed the contents of the Heads of Terms we have worked so hard to get signed, are now blindly calling us to disregard that and back this motion. I have spoken at length with David M about the Trust’s work to this point and, he tells me, he understands that and is comfortable with what I have told him. If Higgy’s understanding of that is different then I will happily have a chat with him too. The Trust have entered into an agreement with the club whereby we are in a due diligence process to ascertain whether or not a commercial transaction can take place. This is an extremely important and sensitive time in our project. Should the Trust members decide to call an EGM to debate whether or not the weight of the Trust’s shares be put behind David and Higgy’s project then I will explain in detail to them where we are and offer my opinion on how the members should consider proceeding. That is for members and not a public forum. That’s how business should be conducted and will be should this arise. With my Trust hat placed to one side for a moment though, as an idividual shareholder I would like to know if the organisers have lobbied enough people so that a vote of no confidence actually has a chance of succeeding? Now, this is not because, as an individual, I would not necessarily take part in something doomed for failure. It is more to get an understanding of how effective an EGM would be in real terms. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rshedden Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Presumably the Trust could back an EGM without actually supporting any motion put forward during the meeting, though?! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalSpin Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 2 hours ago, under5 said: Cardinal, I never suggested there was a lack of activity but the activity it seems is a stumbling block in terms of the support for EGM. I am in the trust already as I have said. I don't have the time to sit on my @rse to get off it, as I run my own business. Higgy has got off his @rse and done a lot of work and needs the trust's support and as yet it is not forthcoming. I don't know the ins and outs of the idea of getting a trust member on the board but I feel like Bomber does that many have tried and failed, tricky Mickey along with his pal are the majority shareholders and sticking £100k in to get a seat on the board, sadly imo is a waste of time and money, and I know the cash is likely to be ring fenced. I just don't see what difference being on the board will make. I feel the EGM is a real chance to get rid of MJ. Not sure if your whole post was aimed at me or even any of it. But I feel the trust should support the EGM and as a member I have not been consulted, seems the decision not to has been made by the Trust board. That was my point. Not aimed at you, just frustration at a common attitude on here that 'someone else should do something about this'. We all need to do something about this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1killiefan Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 There is a lot of frustration all round at the moment. Understand that things may be going on in the background but as time passes it seems that we are losing the impetus. Billy Bowie stated that they would take things on board but we have yet to hear from him since. I am a shareholder and have encouraged others to call for an EGM so that matters can be raised in public. Will be joining the Trust when the new subscription year starts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killiehippo Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 The impetus is very much building up and hopefully some things will be made public in the coming days. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
under5 Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, CardinalSpin said: We all need to do something about this. Can't disagree with that. TBF I don't understand why at the very least every single season ticket holder is not a member of the trust. It's hardly a big expense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
under5 Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 2 hours ago, plunkit said: With my Trust hat placed to one side for a moment though, as an idividual shareholder I would like to know if the organisers have lobbied enough people so that a vote of no confidence actually has a chance of succeeding? Now, this is not because, as an individual, I would not necessarily take part in something doomed for failure. It is more to get an understanding of how effective an EGM would be in real terms. I'm led to believe we are short of an amount of shares. The amount of shares held by the trust would surpass the amount needed. I have been told figures and the likes but I'll leave that to the Squirrel if he wants that made known on a forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1killiefan Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 31 minutes ago, killiehippo said: The impetus is very much building up and hopefully some things will be made public in the coming days. That's good to hear Sandy. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennykillie Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Plunkit, I understand where you are coming from. However, if the Heads of Terms agreement means that the Trust is unable to support the call for an EGM to discuss the future of the cancer that is killing our Club, then there is no point to the Heads of Terms as it would appear that they need MJ's blessing to proceed. Any future that involves MJ in the long term will mean the continuing demise of our Club. To suggest that you won't support the call for an EGM unless the proposed motion has a chance of success is, in my opinion, ludicrous. The ONLY way that such a motion can succeed is if is supported by Billy Bowie. It is unlikely that a motion of no confidence in MJ will pass. In "real terms" that is NOT the point. A vote of a vast majority of individual shareholders to remove MJ will put pressure on Billy Bowie, other Board members and larger shareholders to take action. Surely, in the interests of the future of Kilmarnock Football Club, the Trust's constitution will allow the Trust Board to support calls for an EGM, even if a ballot of members is needed to allow the Trust to support any motion proposed. As you may know, I have been very supportive of the Killie Trust for some time. However, if an EGM cannot happen because the Trust remains on the sidelines and not enough shares are garnered, I will be forced to review my support. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plunkit Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Denny, The HoTs do not prevent the Trust doing this if the members call for a Trust EGM and vote to do it. My question about the effectiveness of an EGM of club shareholders is to establish is this, essentially, a public kicking of MJ knowing that a vote against him will fail without BB's support or does it have a genuine chance, after lobbying, of success. The work done by the Trust to date should, in my opinion, not be placed in jeopardy if this exercise is, in reality, just a public kicking. I'm sorry if you disagree on this, but I have got off my archie, as Under5 talks about, and, with others, put a tremendous amount of effort into this. The organisers need to sell this to the Trust better than they have so far. A democratic process may or may not deem my thoughts redundant. That's the beauty of the Trust - it is democratic. Emotions are running high, I know, but there is a great deal at stake here for the Trust and a great deal of really good, co-operative work could be undone by a knee jerk reaction to this. Like I say - happy to sit down with the organisers and talk. That would be a pretty good starting point in my opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undefined Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dennykillie said: However, if an EGM cannot happen because the Trust remains on the sidelines and not enough shares are garnered, I will be forced to review my support. I think this will be a pretty common view. The trusts current position is correct though. They need the support of their members. The question is - how do they get that support? Should the trust board go out their way to poll members? - If the only mechanism they've got for this is snailmail, then it's time consuming and expensive (surely that problem needs to be solved).or Should the trust board sit back and wait for a trust EGM to be called? - Doesn't cost a penny, but can be construed as "doing nothing". Ironically, Marie Macklin gifted the trust over 45000 shares in 2013. Assuming she's up for an EGM (of course she is!), then those 45000 shares would almost certainly take SH over the target 5%. It's amazing how well intentioned things can come back and bite you in the arse. Edited May 12, 2016 by undefined 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theauldyin Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Got to agree with Dennykillie here, should the calling of a EGM fail though lack of shares , then as I trust member will review my support, its all very well putting £100,000 for a seat on the board if the problem is there, we have to remove it as soon as possible ASAP by supporting this EGM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Island Girl Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 It seems to me that some are confusing the democracy of the Trust with inaction. The direction of the Trust is set at the AGM by the members and the directors carry out the work. At the past few AGMs it has been clear that members support the Trust in Killie initiative. If directors feel that this objective may not be met by publically supporting the call for an EGM and members are not asking them to then there is no mandate. Everyone has the same agenda and it could be that that coming at the problem from different angles will be more successful. Division among fans only helps Johnstone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killiehippo Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 As far as the Trust investment is concerned that will take many months as they carry out their due diligence, I suspect things will have come to a head long before they make the final decision to invest or not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theauldyin Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 the trust should also have been asking its members to vote on supporting this EGM . in the great scheme of things putting in £100,000 into a company run as badly as ours is in my mind daft, as it stands. but to threaten to withdraw it until the problem goes would help, as I read it the club are counting on the sum to help keep it afloat 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baz Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 In all seriousness, the Trust is not going to hold an EGM based on a few people who may or may not even be members of the organisation commenting about it on a forum. There are procedures and protocol to be followed. CardinalSpin spelled it out last week and appealed for other Trust members to back his call...to which two people bothered replying. Don't you think it would be a bit of a knee jerk reaction to call an EGM in that respect even if it were allowed (which it is not, the criteria is on the original thread)? I could be threatening to withdraw my support as well here because I'm all for it, but I'm not going to walk away from all the good work that has been done just because I'm not happy everything is not exactly the way I want it...I would ask the fans on here who are members to have some faith in us and the do the same...and those who are not members to join and let your voice be heard. If the Trust members get together and call for an EGM there will be one, simple as that...but I am pretty sure after the various meetings today that if there is still the need for an EGM by the end of the weekend that there will be more than enough shares than required to make it happen...and having been in touch with Higgy etc. I am sure they will confirm that. The club are not replying on the £100k from the Trust to stay afloat, that amount is chicken feed in the grand scheme of things. If they are then they will be waiting a while for it as Hippo says, it is a lengthy process and there is no rush as we need assurances and to get things right. Let's not get hung up on this, the Trust Board are doing exactly what is required of them and only have the interest of the Trust, the club and the community at heart...as ever we will do the right thing when it is required. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pompey Repatriated Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 As a Trust member I support a call for an EGM if enough shareholders can't be found. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennykillie Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Baz If we separate the request for a KFC EGM from the motion to be voted on, can the Trust Board support the EGM call (without reference to its members) without passing any comment on their support or otherwise of any motion being submitted? I would hate an EGM not to happen if the Trust shares could have made it happen. Of course if the required number of shares are available to call the EGM without the Trust shares, that would be the best solution. However, if the EGM does go ahead, I would hope that the Trust would seek the views of its members (by email) as to how to vote at the EGM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killiegh Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 I want MJ away from our club as much as anyone but I have to agree with Plunkit and Baz. Get someone on the board from the Trust and we will finally know what is going on in the boardroom. I don't think we should give him any excuse for stopping this. If we can get enough support without using the Trust Shares that would be perfect. Fight him from the inside!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbs Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 If as Hippo says, things are going to happen long before any investment is made then what does the Trust have to lose by supporting the call for an EGM. At the very least it would allow them to question the board on whatever subjects they wanted to at the AGM but we're denied due to the lack of an AOB segment. The organisation is not being asked to support a vote of no confidence or anything else. ... just to assist the fans to obtain the platform to ask questions and get their points across. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baz Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, Dennykillie said: Baz If we separate the request for a KFC EGM from the motion to be voted on, can the Trust Board support the EGM call (without reference to its members) without passing any comment on their support or otherwise of any motion being submitted? I would hate an EGM not to happen if the Trust shares could have made it happen. Of course if the required number of shares are available to call the EGM without the Trust shares, that would be the best solution. However, if the EGM does go ahead, I would hope that the Trust would seek the views of its members (by email) as to how to vote at the EGM. If the need for an EGM remains and the only thing stopping it going ahead was the Trust shares then I am pretty sure that there will be enough Trust members who support it to enable a vote and make it happen. As I said earlier though, I am pretty certain (99.9%) that it will not come to that. If or when an EGM does take place we will definitely seek the views of our members in regards to how we would vote and do so according to their wishes. I am currently feeling quietly confident that we are making progress here on three fronts and the only thing we have no control over is the results on the park. Everyone I have spoken to over the last few days is in agreement that during the play-off week if there is anything to be done then it is done in the background so there is no adverse reaction from the management/players. We don't need to be told to do this by anyone (just before they do again), the football is why we are involved, it will be the priority that week. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 As it currently stands, i'm very confident we'll have more than enough shares to force an EGM within the next week, without having to use the Trust. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.