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Black Lives Matter


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36 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

I agree it's hardly a number 1 priority but the Germans know all about their history and no a statue to a single war general in sight. On the other hadn't the American Southern states have statues to many leaders who fought maintain slavery all over the place.

It's a misnomer to say the American civil war was all about Slavery, indeed the north's foremost general had more slaves than Genral Lee who didnt believe in it.

It was as most wars are about small minded men who wanted more power and control.  The southern states didnt want the North telling them what to do as much as they were,   the slavery situation was just another excuse. 

Bear in mind this was a fledgling federal state not that long out of it's own independence battle,  and there were a great many states vying for power.

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23 hours ago, Dieter's Heeder said:

Just about every major organisation in the country has diversity quotas which they must meet these days. It's inevitable that because of this, positions will sometimes be filled for diversity reasons rather than simply being the best person for the job. Positive discrimination they call it. Is that ok?

We live in a country which is overwhelmingly white, its understandable if not obvious that this would reflect in employment.

I'd guess that in Nigeria or Mali for example, that most of their top roles will be filled by people amongst the black community. In China or Korea, it would be the Asian community. 

It's natural, not racism.

Edit - should add that if persons of colour fit the necessary criteria for these roles and are applying and carrying out the same processes as everyone else to get there and are being rejected purely on their skin colour, this of course would be racism. Is this the case though? 

Quite interesting that even when a BAME SNP politician sees an issue, the two responses are basically “nothing to see here”. You may be right, you may be wrong, but just confirms what I’ve always said, when push comes to shove, there are no basic differences in philosophy between Scotland and rUK. 
 

PS In an ideal world, there would be no need for positive discrimination, but in a world where there are major social and economic barriers hindering some people’s progress, then yes, it may be required. That may relate to other issues such as class as well as race. 

 

 

Edited by Mclean07
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14 hours ago, Scooter said:

Just because we can think of different atrocities doesn't mean we just do nothing. The focus is being drawn to slavery just now, unless your inferring, 'all statues matter'.  ;)

You can still educate people about the issues of slavery and colonialism but you don't need the glorifying monuments to do it. But really, when did we as humans ever learn the big lessons from history?

All statues with any links to slavery should be taken down and street names changed.

It's just about doing the right thing.

Well said. Too much whataboutary. 

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11 hours ago, RAG said:

His statue was added in 1828, 7 years after they built the 150ft pillar, so they could easily turn the pillar back to its original state.

Interested in the Opium Wars, I din't know they'd been two!  Sounds more exciting than a Cod War anyway!  Have got as far back as the Boer wars in my youtube travels. 

Aside from the specific issue of racism and slavery, we need to totally reappraise in history, the Empire and the absolute banditry, theft and exploitation that went along with it.  IMO just tearing down statues and airbrushing uncomfortable bits of history for future generations, isn't enough.

Maybe in about 2045, 100 years after WW2, we might, as a nation, finally get round to what the Germans were forced to do in 1945?!

It was apparently funded by an individual having a mid life crises. He tried to crowd fund it, but had to make up the difference as it fell short of its target.

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4 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

Quite interesting that even when a BAME SNP politician sees an issue, the two responses are basically “nothing to see here”. You may be right, you may be wrong, but just confirms what I’ve always said, when push comes to shove, there are no basic differences in philosophy between Scotland and rUK. 

I did not mean to imply there was not an issue. Simply that the issue perceived is very dependent on ones own situation.

I agree with your basic argument that basically Scotland is a country with a very conservative with a small c population. Nothing like the London Metropolitan Labour Party and that may be where some of Labour's problems have arisen from. And nothing like the Holyrood and that is your concern, that an independent Scotland will inevitably swing to the right.

I don't agree.  

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16 hours ago, Scooter said:

Just because we can think of different atrocities doesn't mean we just do nothing. The focus is being drawn to slavery just now, unless your inferring, 'all statues matter'.  ;)

You can still educate people about the issues of slavery and colonialism but you don't need the glorifying monuments to do it. But really, when did we as humans ever learn the big lessons from history?

All statues with any links to slavery should be taken down and street names changed.

It's just about doing the right thing.

The street names can be changed but Buchanan Street for example, is still going to be called that regardless of the name change. 

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“But...but...but...whatabout the pyramids and the coliseum, do we have to tear them down too?”. Nope. They own their history. There’s literally nobody who doesn’t know the pyramids were built using slave labourer or that slaves were made to fight to the death at the coliseum. They don’t have plaques on them saying “Titus-philanthropist and all round good guy” or “Tutankhamen- local merchant and patron of the arts”.  

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16 minutes ago, Zorro said:

“But...but...but...whatabout the pyramids and the coliseum, do we have to tear them down too?”. Nope. They own their history. There’s literally nobody who doesn’t know the pyramids were built using slave labourer or that slaves were made to fight to the death at the coliseum. They don’t have plaques on them saying “Titus-philanthropist and all round good guy” or “Tutankhamen- local merchant and patron of the arts”.  

Im suprised the Tobacco barons who made their money through the slave trade at the Neocropolis in Glasgow have not been targeted ? Not that i belive it should

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6 hours ago, Wrangodog said:

The street names can be changed but Buchanan Street for example, is still going to be called that regardless of the name change. 

What should we do then, just leave it? Mibbee asterisk it and put a wee plaque below the street signs?

Only the majority can change things for the minority, but if they don't give a feck then the minority will continue to rage and things can't change for the better.

Education is a fine idea but you and I know it ain't gonna happen for the majority. Who here knows the history of Glasgow streets or your own street name without looking it up?

https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/history/glasgow-history-slavery-street-names-18369259

Edited by Scooter
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7 hours ago, Wrangodog said:

The street names can be changed but Buchanan Street for example, is still going to be called that regardless of the name change. 

For a few years maybe but why should people in the future call a street by a name with doesn’t appear on signs or maps?

I don’t hear much talk these days of Ceylon or Burma, Salisbury or Bombay.  

Cities and whole countries can change their names but people are still going to refer to Buchanan Street? 

I doubt it. 

 

 

Edited by skygod
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1 hour ago, Scooter said:

What should we do then, just leave it? Mibbee asterisk it and put a wee plaque below the street signs?

Only the majority can change things for the minority, but if they don't give a feck then the minority will continue to rage and things can't change for the better.

Education is a fine idea but you and I know it ain't gonna happen for the majority. Who here knows the history of Glasgow streets or your own street name without looking it up?

https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/history/glasgow-history-slavery-street-names-18369259

It's a street name, nobody cares where they come from. Try telling people that I live in Hoylake Square after they've called it Haylake, or Holylake. Then you tell them it's named after a golf course, a golf course that apparently nobody has heard of. They could always name it after another Buchanan. It will still be Buchanan Street to me whether they call it something else or not. We still call out local shop the Spar, although it hasn't been that for 15-20 years. 

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1 hour ago, skygod said:

For a few years maybe but why should people in the future call a street by a name with doesn’t appear on signs or maps.

I don’t hear much talk these days of Ceylon or Burma, Salisbury or Bombay.  

Cities and whole countries can change their names but people are still going to refer to Buchanan Street? 

I doubt it. 

It will take a generation before it changes, and yes I still use Burma because my uncle and father-in-law fought there. Still call Mumbai Bombay, although frequently jump between the two, and Ho Chi Minh City is still referred to as Saigon in Vietnam. 

Will give you Sri Lanka and Harare though, mainly because I'd forgotten about Ceylon and Salisbury being called that. 

Edited by Wrangodog
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at's OnArts and Entertainment

Should Glasgow's 'slavery streets' be renamed?

The Glasgow streets named after merchants who had links to slavery should be changed, a senior council figure has claimed.

By The Newsroom

Monday, 20th February 2017, 7:15 pm

Updated Wednesday, 1st March 2017, 9:44 am

The Trades Hall on Glassford Street. The street is named after Tobacco Lord and plantation owner John Glassford. PIC Flickr/Creative Commons.

Bailie Dr Nina Baker has called for a “symbolic renaming of selected streets” to coincide with Anti-Slavery Day in October.

Several streets, mainly in the Merchant City area, are named after the 18th Century Tobacco Lords who used their vast wealth made from slave-grown produce in the tobacco plantations of the US and West Indies to buy up land in Glasgow during the mid to late 1700s

 

It seems this is not a new problem in Glasgow and one which the council has already ignored . 

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2 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

at's OnArts and Entertainment

Should Glasgow's 'slavery streets' be renamed?

The Glasgow streets named after merchants who had links to slavery should be changed, a senior council figure has claimed.

By The Newsroom

Monday, 20th February 2017, 7:15 pm

Updated Wednesday, 1st March 2017, 9:44 am

The Trades Hall on Glassford Street. The street is named after Tobacco Lord and plantation owner John Glassford. PIC Flickr/Creative Commons.

Bailie Dr Nina Baker has called for a “symbolic renaming of selected streets” to coincide with Anti-Slavery Day in October.

Several streets, mainly in the Merchant City area, are named after the 18th Century Tobacco Lords who used their vast wealth made from slave-grown produce in the tobacco plantations of the US and West Indies to buy up land in Glasgow during the mid to late 1700s

 

It seems this is not a new problem in Glasgow and one which the council has already ignored . 

Labour ignoring racism thats not like them is it.......

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1 hour ago, Wrangodog said:

It's a street name, nobody cares where they come from. Try telling people that I live in Hoylake Square after they've called it Haylake, or Holylake. Then you tell them it's named after a golf course, a golf course that apparently nobody has heard of. They could always name it after another Buchanan. It will still be Buchanan Street to me whether they call it something else or not. We still call out local shop the Spar, although it hasn't been that for 15-20 years. 

And inhad 2 Killie Pies for my tea last night, even though the packet says kilmarnock pie.

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14 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

It seems this is not a new problem in Glasgow and one which the council has already ignored . 

It costs £ to rename them - all councils are skint.  You can bet your boots Buchanan Street will be the least likely to be renamed, simply cos it's a shopping 'brand'.  The cost of renaming the underground signage alone would be enormous and a waste of money IMO.  Much better putting a monument, some art in and signage, explaining that Buchanan wasn't a nice man at all.  Clearly, like they did when renaming Nelson Mandela Place, some side streets should (and most probably will) be renamed.

Edited by RAG
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24 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

And I had 2 Killie Pies for my tea last night, even though the packet says kilmarnock pie.

Do you take them neat?  Or with red sauce, or brown sauce on the top crust?  I've got into them with a liberal dash of Frenchs American style mustard on the top - special ops style.  Never Mayo - that would be totally weird.

Edited by RAG
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11 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

but just confirms what I’ve always said, when push comes to shove, there are no basic differences in philosophy between Scotland and rUK.

 

Fecks sake man, every feckin thread you slip this in. Seriously you need to seek help.

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27 minutes ago, RAG said:

It costs £ to rename them - all councils are skint.  You can bet your boots Buchanan Street will be the least likely to be renamed, simply cos it's a shopping 'brand'.  The cost of renaming the underground signage alone would be enormous and a waste of money IMO.  Much better putting a monument, some art in and signage, explaining that Buchanan wasn't a nice man at all.  Clearly, like they did when renaming Nelson Mandela Place, some side streets should (and most probably will) be renamed.

 Couldn’t agree more . It will be interesting to see which party or individual will take up this cause at the next election and we will then see what people think . Do you want your bins collected or streets renamed ? 

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6 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

 Couldn’t agree more . It will be interesting to see which party or individual will take up this cause at the next election and we will then see what people think . Do you want your bins collected or streets renamed ? 

You're in the biggest recession in 300 years in the UK.  They'll be some really talented artists who'd currently sculpt stuff for peanuts.  Is tokenism, but culturally is regressive to not replace public art, or enhance, or contrast with existing public art, as the times move on.

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8 hours ago, Bonbon19 said:

SNP have controlled Glasgow City council in a minority administration since 2017 .......

Yes but what about the 50years before this?

Or is it let's blame the SNP for the sheer corruption and deprecation in Glasgow, which labour councillors fostered and profited from and ignored respectively for decades?

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1 hour ago, Beaker71 said:

Yes but what about the 50years before this?

Or is it let's blame the SNP for the sheer corruption and deprecation in Glasgow, which labour councillors fostered and profited from and ignored respectively for decades?

Was the question posed in Scotland or Glasgow 50 years  ago ? I can find no evidence of it even after the the civil rights movement in the US started .
There’s no doubt all councils are at fault retrospectively but you apportioned blame to the Labour Party for a question posed during an SNP led administration .

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