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Furlough fraud


Bonbon19

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Crackdown on furlough fraudsters amid mounting evidence abuse of the government scheme is rampant

Dishonestly taking public money from the £100bn job retention scheme could result in an investigation and a prison sentence – yet research indicates abuse is rampant. Now HMRC is seeking to crack down on the fraudsters. 

After two anxious months and more than 100 applications, Charlie Owens* has finally found a new job after being sacked by his previous employer for speaking out about what he believed to be clear defrauding of the government’s furlough scheme.

A team of about 30 people at the digital marketing agency where he worked were told in March that they had to take a 20 per cent pay cut. What their bosses did not make clear until later was that taxpayers would be funding their wages – even though they were still expected to work.

Furloughed workers are paid up to 80 per cent of their salary by the government. The rules are clear that furloughed staff must not do any work for **paywall**

https://apple.news/A8gjnqCmdTUaq7KGQ1aWxAA

Has anyone experienced this ? 

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If govt had been on the ball and not incompetent then prob little need of furlough. They portraying it as "world beating", but the true story is it hides gross negligence which ultimately we will all pay for. Fine for Bojo to say few other countries doing it. Few probably gave to. Taxpayers money down the drain.

Edited by Shropshire_killie
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  • 4 weeks later...
On 6/14/2020 at 9:55 AM, Bonbon19 said:

Crackdown on furlough fraudsters amid mounting evidence abuse of the government scheme is rampant

Dishonestly taking public money from the £100bn job retention scheme could result in an investigation and a prison sentence – yet research indicates abuse is rampant. Now HMRC is seeking to crack down on the fraudsters. 

After two anxious months and more than 100 applications, Charlie Owens* has finally found a new job after being sacked by his previous employer for speaking out about what he believed to be clear defrauding of the government’s furlough scheme.

A team of about 30 people at the digital marketing agency where he worked were told in March that they had to take a 20 per cent pay cut. What their bosses did not make clear until later was that taxpayers would be funding their wages – even though they were still expected to work.

Furloughed workers are paid up to 80 per cent of their salary by the government. The rules are clear that furloughed staff must not do any work for **paywall**

https://apple.news/A8gjnqCmdTUaq7KGQ1aWxAA

Has anyone experienced this ? 

Probably not. But then no-one reads a story with the headline '98% of furlough applications legitimate'.

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1 hour ago, Beaker71 said:

A UBI system 

I assume you mean universal basic income.

The economic arguments against this dont stack up.

There are moral arguments against creating a something for nothing culture but as that culture seems to be all pervasive in the upper echelons of our society once again the arguament collapses.

Sadly results from the experimental scheme in Finland were not encouraging.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.helsinki.fi/en/news/nordic-welfare-news/heikki-hiilamo-disappointing-results-from-the-finnish-basic-income-experiment&ved=2ahUKEwji9ezDyMLqAhVJVsAKHQ1mD3MQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0J_X-3ML9MQiNlrCLj3TLG

 

 

Edited by gdevoy
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Heard a lot of horror stories on the furlough, business grants and loans schemes being greatly abused, it seems many of them are beginning to come to light. 

Real shame as it was one of the few good things the Tory government has done for working people. 

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1 hour ago, Fudger said:

Heard a lot of horror stories on the furlough, business grants and loans schemes being greatly abused, it seems many of them are beginning to come to light. 

Real shame as it was one of the few good things the Tory government has done for working people. 

Don't kid yourself it wasn't to try and prevent total meltdown of their benefits system and complete economic collapse.

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1 hour ago, Fudger said:

Heard a lot of horror stories on the furlough, business grants and loans schemes being greatly abused, it seems many of them are beginning to come to light. 

Real shame as it was one of the few good things the Tory government has done for working people. 

I’ve heard anecdotal stories from some business owners that the HMRC won’t pursue businesses if they come clean about some minor “misclaims “ if they pay the sums involved back .

I suspect also that these minor indescretions aren’t worth pursuing through the courts .  

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34 minutes ago, Fudger said:

Regardless, it still saved most the jobs and income of people I know (for now anyway) 

I'm not decrying it.  Just not buying the reason was to protect and help the ordinary working man.

BTW.  Sunak is the ONLY member of the WM government to have pass marks, the rest have proven their incompetence is much worse than we all thought.

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I also believe that the best way to address the economic issues from the virus  is to completely change pur socio-economic policy.

Change the approach from the current model, to one where a UBI or UGI is implemented at a level which allows a living level for all.  Plus accompanying changes in corporate taxation,  policy and public spending.  It needs to encourage and reward people to work and increase their earnings abive the income level,  and carries a different tax regime.

Corporate taxation policy also needs to change to close loopholes and if that is done we could reduce the levels for all.

Instead I suspect that corporations will get away with not paying tax while we all get hammered. 

A state should work for the people, not business first.

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  • 1 month later...

Up to £3.5 billion has been dished out on fraudulent or incorrect claims for the Government's furlough scheme, a top civil servant has revealed.

Jim Harra, chief executive of HMRC, said his staff believe between five and 10 per cent of furlough cash might have been sent to ineligible claimants.

The Government has so far paid out £35.4 billion in furlough cash, according to the latest figures.

It means that somewhere between £1.75 billion and £3.5 billion could have been paid out wrongly.

On Monday, the permanent secretary told MPs on the Public Accounts Committee that wrongful claims ranged from "deliberate fraud through to error".

“What we have said in our risk assessment is we are not going to set out to try to find employers who have made legitimate mistakes in compiling their claims, because this is obviously something new that everybody had to get to grips with in a very difficult time," Mr Harrar said.

“Although we will expect employers to check their claims and repay any excess amount, but what we will be focusing on is tackling abuse and fraud.”

It is the first time HMRC has spoken publicly about the level of potential fraud that could have been committed as part of the job retention scheme, which has covered up to 80 per cent of an employee’s salary while they were on furlough.

The Government rolled out the unprecedented programme at breakneck speed, causing many experts to say that a certain amount of fraud was inevitable.

Furlough is now winding down and is expected to end for good next month, however businesses which bring staff back from furlough will receive another £1,000 if the employee is still in work by the end of January.

By August 16 this year, 9.6 million people had been put on Government-supported furlough, with 1.2 million employers claiming the support.

Meanwhile, around 2.7 million self-employed people have claimed around £7.8 billion in support from the Government.

Mr Harra said that an academic study has estimated that the level of fraud and error might be even higher than 10 per cent.

 

https://apple.news/AfVmz54xzSWen6t6wBKQqCQ

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48 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

Up to £3.5 billion has been dished out on fraudulent or incorrect claims for the Government's furlough scheme, a top civil servant has revealed.

Jim Harra, chief executive of HMRC, said his staff believe between five and 10 per cent of furlough cash might have been sent to ineligible claimants.

The Government has so far paid out £35.4 billion in furlough cash, according to the latest figures.

It means that somewhere between £1.75 billion and £3.5 billion could have been paid out wrongly.

On Monday, the permanent secretary told MPs on the Public Accounts Committee that wrongful claims ranged from "deliberate fraud through to error".

“What we have said in our risk assessment is we are not going to set out to try to find employers who have made legitimate mistakes in compiling their claims, because this is obviously something new that everybody had to get to grips with in a very difficult time," Mr Harrar said.

“Although we will expect employers to check their claims and repay any excess amount, but what we will be focusing on is tackling abuse and fraud.”

It is the first time HMRC has spoken publicly about the level of potential fraud that could have been committed as part of the job retention scheme, which has covered up to 80 per cent of an employee’s salary while they were on furlough.

The Government rolled out the unprecedented programme at breakneck speed, causing many experts to say that a certain amount of fraud was inevitable.

Furlough is now winding down and is expected to end for good next month, however businesses which bring staff back from furlough will receive another £1,000 if the employee is still in work by the end of January.

By August 16 this year, 9.6 million people had been put on Government-supported furlough, with 1.2 million employers claiming the support.

Meanwhile, around 2.7 million self-employed people have claimed around £7.8 billion in support from the Government.

Mr Harra said that an academic study has estimated that the level of fraud and error might be even higher than 10 per cent.

 

 

https://apple.news/AfVmz54xzSWen6t6wBKQqCQ

£35bn eh? So just about the cost if tax evasion of one or two multinationals.

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When the jam is opened, the wasps will come.

Companies are used to the government paying wages for them now, from Working Tax Credits to the Job Retention Scheme ...is it a coincidence that companies are now shedding staff once they have to pay salaries themselves, despite making huge profits?

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8 hours ago, Scooter said:

....is it a coincidence that companies are now shedding staff once they have to pay salaries themselves, despite making huge profits?

It's called  capitalism. Milton Friedma explains the whole thing on YouTube.

Or to paraphrase Milo Minderbinder from Catch 22, what's good for Anazon is good for everyone.

Edited by gdevoy
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18 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

It's called  capitalism. Milton Friedma explains the whole thing on YouTube.

Is debatable whether it is 'capitalism'.  You're talking about the tax payer subsiding loss making businesses, many of whom are owned by millionaires.  If the gov. wanted a 10% stake, or share of profits in 2021/22 from furloughed businesses it would be 'capitalism'.

The furlough scheme is state subsidy to stop the jobless total jumping by 5m overnight.  Unless Covid is gone by Christmas, the £36bn (or whatever) would have been better spent on universal basic income, with that many about to be jobless and little to no prospect of normal trading conditions resuming anytime soon.

Edited by RAG
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48 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

I see Amazon paid £293M in tax this year up some 30% from last year ...yippee!

Question is how much SHOULD they have paid.....

Small tip of a f**king enormous iceberg, and one of the main reasons for Brexit (the clampdown on tax havens and tax avoidance,  pension levels with the UK being told to get theirs up to Eu norms, etc.)

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