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Alex Dyer Megathread™

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1 hour ago, Gaffer said:

Cant believe this argument about how good AA was still being trotted out. He came in with a cracking CV as a coach and assistant manager but it never materialised into being a Manager He was not a Leader, his contacts who were going to loan us players never materialised in any numbers or quality except Del Fabro. Niko was also ok at first, the rest of what he brought in was crap. He was a dead man walking after the Europe fiasco, rightly so.

Alex Dyer is our Manager now if he fails he will be out the door but FFS give the man a chance, he inherited a s**t show and I agree at times since taking over it has also been s**t. I was at St. Mirren away at Christmas and it was awful and AD looked out his depth but I was also at Livingston away a few weeks earlier and it was also awful, AA looked lost and that was after he had 5 months to stamp his authority on his team. Given time and backing from The Club and Supporters I'm confident in AD going forward, not all good managers start out with an impressive CV, some start out at unfashionable Clubs and build a legacy maybe we have found our man to build that here.

You certainly can't get more unfashionable than Welling Utd and Whitehawk. 

Edited by historyman

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1 hour ago, historyman said:

You certainly can't get more unfashionable than Welling Utd and Whitehawk. 

Look at Alex Ferguson at East Stirlingshire 

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9 hours ago, mitch14 said:

Its so depressing reading this forum at the moment and have variations of this comment on every thread. 

What does that mean? Like actually what does that mean, other than a dig at the players? If it was that, how would Dyer know? How would the players know? 

And he was keeping a player who he knew would almost certainly be leaving happy? That doesn't make sense. 

And this is troublesome Gary Dicker? Who is living away from his wife and kid for the whole season, helped install the rail seating in the ground and has signed up for another year to go through all that again? Does that make sense? 

I find it so odd that our fans turned against the players to the extent that they did. The possibility that the players didn't like working with Alessio because he was completely out of his depth and a disaster behind the scenes seems to have just been dismissed by so many fans. 

Is this all we have to look forward to as Killie fans at the moment? Constant digs at the manager and the captain until we win a few games? A grim old close season ahead. 

 

Correct - it doesn't make sense, but it's very clearly what has happened. O'Donnell and other senior players are calling the shots, and the board are too inexperienced to realise it.

It's been documented numerous times that senior players have been calling the shots behind the scenes. Alessio left us in 5th place, and his replacement seen us 5th. The replacement who said he didn't want the job, signed a player he was pally with at an old club who played about 2 games before dissapearing with injury, brought back a 35 year old dud who couldn't get a game for St Mirren because those same players like him, dropped another player who was playing well for him, all before seeing us finish 8th.

Honestly, if you think that Alessio was completely out his depth and a disaster, I do not for a minute understand why you think Dyer is a good choice. I'll support him, of course, but I have no faith that anyone from the manager, the head of football, to the board really know what they are doing

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20 hours ago, Cass316 said:

Bowie saying Dyer will be the manager next season. 

 

 

For the life of me I really don’t know what ‘he knows how the club operates’ actually means in a results driven business. In fact this interview goes further and discusses the reserves and developing their own players.

No mention of the club informing 10 reserve players on Wednesday that furlough would not be extended and they would be leaving the club in 10 days time, with no support offered at all. This at a time when there are no clubs recruiting, no training facilities available and a lack of jobs everywhere, especially in Ayrshire. Some of these young players (age 18-20) have spent HALF their lives at the club, sacrificing their education, to pursue their dream. They surely deserve more consideration from a club who only recently at a Trust Event and Supporters Event boasted about being a community club and looking after the welfare of their young players. Maybe the club’s media silence on this decision, without so much as a thank you for the boys’ service, speaks volumes.

The club is PERFECTLY ENTITLED to get rid of these players who they consider not good enough. However furlough extension, even for a couple of months, costs the club NOTHING and would have been better than being dumped in the unemployment queue in the current unprecedented difficult climate.

A decision has been taken and for these Killie young players they will move on, but it could have been handled in a more respectful and dignified manner.

Here is a statement from the PFA on the actions of club’s such as Kilmarnock FC. 

“It has a been a hugely frustrating and worrying week for a lot of you regarding furlough extensions.

We share your frustrations at the reluctance of SOME clubs to extend furlough agreements for their out-of-contract players and have spent the week speaking with these clubs about the reasoning behind their decisions so we can try and find a solution.

Let’s be blunt, the clue is in the title – it is called the Job Retention Scheme because it is about keeping people in employment at a time of great uncertainty. That is what the government intended it for, it is written in black and white in the guidelines.

However, as often happens in football, one club gets cold feet and scaremongers others in to following suit. It is quite staggering.

As you know, our specialist employment lawyer has stated that “it is my very firm view that not only does the Guidance permit such extensions, but it encourages them since the Scheme is a blunt one with an overall objective of keeping employees in work.”

This has been affirmed by a number of lawyers and HR departments at clubs throughout the SPFL who HAVE extended their players furlough contracts. We thank these clubs for their co-operation and for looking after our members.

Unfortunately, there are some clubs who are still digging their heels in, but rest assured that we are NOT giving up the fight. Please do not think that because we are not shouting about this in the media that we are not doing anything about it.

We are speaking to clubs on a daily basis and have even managed to change the mindset of some of them, who will now continue to furlough their out of contract players.

We are also actively speaking to the Government, HMRC, MSPs, the governing bodies and lawyers (both ours and others) and are continuing to push for this on your behalf.

Hopefully we can get some form of comfort that we can take to reluctant clubs which will let them change their minds.

We know this is a worrying and upsetting time, but as soon as we have any news we will let you know.“
 

 

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13 minutes ago, TroonKFC said:

 

No mention of the club informing 10 reserve players on Wednesday that furlough would not be extended and they would be leaving the club in 10 days time, with no support offered at all. This at a time when there are no clubs recruiting, no training facilities available and a lack of jobs everywhere, especially in Ayrshire. Some of these young players (age 18-20) have spent HALF their lives at the club, sacrificing their education, to pursue their dream. They surely deserve more consideration from a club who only recently at a Trust Event and Supporters Event boasted about being a community club and looking after the welfare of their young players. Maybe the club’s media silence on this decision, without so much as a thank you for the boys’ service, speaks volumes.

The club is PERFECTLY ENTITLED to get rid of these players who they consider not good enough. However furlough extension, even for a couple of months, costs the club NOTHING and would have been better than being dumped in the unemployment queue in the current unprecedented difficult climate.

A decision has been taken and for these Killie young players they will move on, but it could have been handled in a more respectful and dignified manner.

 

 

That’s shameful. Completely avoidable. Thanks for highlighting this. The club should have some questions asked of it. 

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12 minutes ago, The Lurker said:

That’s shameful. Completely avoidable. Thanks for highlighting this. The club should have some questions asked of it. 

It's not shameful at all, its unfortunate, its circumstances, its not shameful. Self righteous patter at a time when clubs are fighting for their very existence, you want them to take advantage of the furlough system to keep people in a job that they would be getting cut from anyway? That money is meant to be for keeping people in a job, not just giving cash to people (who will qualify for other benefits) regardless of the situation. We do it every year, where is the outrage then? It might cost the club nothing, but it costs the government money and we're all going to be paying for it soon through taxes. I agree its not nice not thanking them but again, they don't do that in normal circumstances either so its nothing new, plus there is not much you can do in person these days during lock down.

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47 minutes ago, Killie alan said:

Look at Alex Ferguson at East Stirlingshire 

He was 32 at the time and quickly moved on. AD is 54 with virtually no management experience - four matches at Welling, a few days at Whitehawk and 15 matches at RP.

AD's CV looks better when you include assistant manager's positions at Charlton and Huddersfield. It's still a big difference between being assistant to a good manager and stepping out on your own.

Regarding Alessio, if it was "an utter disaster and the the whole setup was embarrassing from day one", the players must have been asking how on earth the board came to appoint him. 

They got shot of the manager but the board remains.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, TroonKFC said:

For the life of me I really don’t know what ‘he knows how the club operates’ actually means in a results driven business. In fact this interview goes further and discusses the reserves and developing their own players.

No mention of the club informing 10 reserve players on Wednesday that furlough would not be extended and they would be leaving the club in 10 days time, with no support offered at all. This at a time when there are no clubs recruiting, no training facilities available and a lack of jobs everywhere, especially in Ayrshire. Some of these young players (age 18-20) have spent HALF their lives at the club, sacrificing their education, to pursue their dream. They surely deserve more consideration from a club who only recently at a Trust Event and Supporters Event boasted about being a community club and looking after the welfare of their young players. Maybe the club’s media silence on this decision, without so much as a thank you for the boys’ service, speaks volumes.

The club is PERFECTLY ENTITLED to get rid of these players who they consider not good enough. However furlough extension, even for a couple of months, costs the club NOTHING and would have been better than being dumped in the unemployment queue in the current unprecedented difficult climate.

A decision has been taken and for these Killie young players they will move on, but it could have been handled in a more respectful and dignified manner.

Here is a statement from the PFA on the actions of club’s such as Kilmarnock FC. 

“It has a been a hugely frustrating and worrying week for a lot of you regarding furlough extensions.

We share your frustrations at the reluctance of SOME clubs to extend furlough agreements for their out-of-contract players and have spent the week speaking with these clubs about the reasoning behind their decisions so we can try and find a solution.

Let’s be blunt, the clue is in the title – it is called the Job Retention Scheme because it is about keeping people in employment at a time of great uncertainty. That is what the government intended it for, it is written in black and white in the guidelines.

However, as often happens in football, one club gets cold feet and scaremongers others in to following suit. It is quite staggering.

As you know, our specialist employment lawyer has stated that “it is my very firm view that not only does the Guidance permit such extensions, but it encourages them since the Scheme is a blunt one with an overall objective of keeping employees in work.”

This has been affirmed by a number of lawyers and HR departments at clubs throughout the SPFL who HAVE extended their players furlough contracts. We thank these clubs for their co-operation and for looking after our members.

Unfortunately, there are some clubs who are still digging their heels in, but rest assured that we are NOT giving up the fight. Please do not think that because we are not shouting about this in the media that we are not doing anything about it.

We are speaking to clubs on a daily basis and have even managed to change the mindset of some of them, who will now continue to furlough their out of contract players.

We are also actively speaking to the Government, HMRC, MSPs, the governing bodies and lawyers (both ours and others) and are continuing to push for this on your behalf.

Hopefully we can get some form of comfort that we can take to reluctant clubs which will let them change their minds.

We know this is a worrying and upsetting time, but as soon as we have any news we will let you know.“
 

 

PFA in trying to keep players in a job shocker! Really, what do you expect them to say? You say "clubs like Kilmarnock FC" suspiciously like you are here on a day trip! What a load of bollocks about players sacrificing their education etc. They do it for themselves because they want to. They play football because they want to. They are lucky at having been able to train with a professional club for HALF their life and hopefully they will use it to their advantage. Are you a tobloid journalist by any chance because that's exactly how your post has been written!!!

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3 minutes ago, skygod said:

Yeah - the guys with the money think they know all about football.#

 

Don't we all? Whoever pays the piper calls the tune. They can't get sacked from the board, they own the club, that's how it works unfortunately for us fans.

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52 minutes ago, bute-killiefan said:

 

Correct - it doesn't make sense, but it's very clearly what has happened. O'Donnell and other senior players are calling the shots, and the board are too inexperienced to realise it.

It's been documented numerous times that senior players have been calling the shots behind the scenes. Alessio left us in 5th place, and his replacement seen us 5th. The replacement who said he didn't want the job, signed a player he was pally with at an old club who played about 2 games before dissapearing with injury, brought back a 35 year old dud who couldn't get a game for St Mirren because those same players like him, dropped another player who was playing well for him, all before seeing us finish 8th.

Honestly, if you think that Alessio was completely out his depth and a disaster, I do not for a minute understand why you think Dyer is a good choice. I'll support him, of course, but I have no faith that anyone from the manager, the head of football, to the board really know what they are doing

I'm struggling to get past your first line... It doesn't make sense, but we'll go with it anyway? That's exactly what I'm trying to challenge. If I'm wrong I'll happily admit it if someone can tell me exactly what the players did? 

To be clear, I'm not suggesting Dyer is an amazing coach I've said various times in the past few days that without the pandemic I'd have hoped we looked for someone else.

If you want a good point of comparison - we were fifth with a startling low points tally because the league was s**t for the first half of the season. We had 23 points. That would have had us in eight at that point in the season before. 

The point about us being fifth seems to be used by numerous posters as if to suggest that we were going well and if the players had just listened a bit more to Alessio we would have done even better. 

The reality was that we weren't that good and people on here were moaning constantly about the football. Its also a weird argument to say that the players were underminging the manager so much that we were... fifth with the best defensive record in the league? How do those things go together? 

Looking at the evidence, it suggests to me that the opposite of what most post is true - without the professionalism of the players we wouldn't have been in the position that we were.

Again, more than happy to be corrected, but if even half the stories are true then no undermining from players was required...

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6 minutes ago, mitch14 said:

I'm struggling to get past your first line... It doesn't make sense, but we'll go with it anyway? That's exactly what I'm trying to challenge. If I'm wrong I'll happily admit it if someone can tell me exactly what the players did? 

To be clear, I'm not suggesting Dyer is an amazing coach I've said various times in the past few days that without the pandemic I'd have hoped we looked for someone else.

If you want a good point of comparison - we were fifth with a startling low points tally because the league was s**t for the first half of the season. We had 23 points. That would have had us in eight at that point in the season before. 

The point about us being fifth seems to be used by numerous posters as if to suggest that we were going well and if the players had just listened a bit more to Alessio we would have done even better. 

The reality was that we weren't that good and people on here were moaning constantly about the football. Its also a weird argument to say that the players were underminging the manager so much that we were... fifth with the best defensive record in the league? How do those things go together? 

Looking at the evidence, it suggests to me that the opposite of what most post is true - without the professionalism of the players we wouldn't have been in the position that we were.

Again, more than happy to be corrected, but if even half the stories are true then no undermining from players was required...

We won't agree on this if you make claims while telling me I need to prove mine to you. To me it was clear that the players didn't like Alessio, and he wasn't supported by the club to bring in more professional players. The signing of Broadfoot confirmed that for me. Dyer isn't the man to kick them up the arse, neither is Fowler. I hope I'm wrong

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23 minutes ago, skygod said:

Regarding Alessio, if it was "an utter disaster and the the whole setup was embarrassing from day one", the players must have been asking how on earth the board came to appoint him. 

They got shot of the manager but the board remains.

 

 

I think this is really important to keep in mind. 

I'm not able to go to the agms/Trust events etc but I have got the feeling the club has at least recognised the mistakes of last summer and are doing what they can to rectify it? That's my hope anyway. 

January was a setback. It looked like Dyer was it even before covid, which I'm very wary of, but the summer will be the big test of whether lessons have been learned. 

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4 minutes ago, bute-killiefan said:

We won't agree on this if you make claims while telling me I need to prove mine to you. 

Apologies if it came across that way - not my intention.

What I meant was that I've heard numerous stories about Alessio and how bad things were. 

What I genuinely haven't heard is any indication that the players undermined the manager/didn't do their best to play for him/didn't follow instructions etc as opposed to just struggling to get on with what was happening. It was a question for anyone who might know - is that actually the case? 

I agree that the players didn't like Alessio - all I'm trying to establish is whether that was warranted and what effected it actually had, rather than the effect some appear to have guessed it had. 

 

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As an aside let’s put the early comparisons to SAF away. I think he won 9 of his first 17 games at East Stirlingshire. Figures our current manager could only dream of. 
He’s all but signed to be our manager for the new season and will get my support wholeheartedly as he’s a good guy who has still has some credit in the bank for the Clarke era....... but a bad start and I wouldn’t be surprised if a mutual parting of the ways follows and we are back int he lucky dip managers pool before Xmas - assuming the league is played roughly on schedule. 

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1 hour ago, bute-killiefan said:

Dyer isn't the man to kick them up the arse, neither is Fowler. I hope I'm wrong

To be fair I don't think that's Fowler's job

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8 minutes ago, Killie alan said:

Yes he did East Stirlingshire sacked him

No they didn't.   He moved to St Mirren when the manager's job became available.

The only club who ever sacked Ferguson was St Mirren - what a claim to fame. 

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3 minutes ago, Wee_Eck1979 said:

No they didn't, he left to take up the St Mirren job (who are the only club to sack him).

Snap

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Can't honestly believe Angelo Alessio is still being discussed. He overseen our worst defeat in recent history, the football was chronic, his signings were below average at best (DDF aside), he managed to alienate an entire dressing room and tore up some of the backroom staff at the club.

The guy was an absolute disaster, but there's a myth developing among some of our support that he was genius who wasn't afforded enough time. Baffles me really.

All he had to do was play the same team, tactics and keep the same backroom team until he had sussed players out and he tried to put square pegs in round holes.

This is a man who loaned out Kiltie and brought in Harvey St Clair mind...

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Have the club started players training again? The reason for asking is that the ones whose contracts were up and not being renewed would not be involved. If they have returned to light training then
Killie will be paying the wages of players contracted, with no income to support it.

Out of contract players would not be furloughed, my reading is that Job Retention means that they will be retained after the lockdown ends, this is not the case for these players.

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Totally agree with the above post how many of us can honestly say we enjoyed what we were seeing on the park from someone who let us not forget was supposedly used to working in a lot higher company than the spfl with supposed high quality contacts I'm sorry but I didn't see his influence in any of our games even taking into account he was working with more 'inferior' players I worried when I saw power,dicker and o'Donnell running over to the technical area and having discussions with Dyer in the first few home games because they all knew AA's tactics were s*** and there is only one man at rugby park who really knows why AA was dumped and he isn't telling!

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4 minutes ago, killie billies pal said:

Have the club started players training again? The reason for asking is that the ones whose contracts were up and not being renewed would not be involved. If they have returned to light training then
Killie will be paying the wages of players contracted, with no income to support it.

Out of contract players would not be furloughed, my reading is that Job Retention means that they will be retained after the lockdown ends, this is not the case for these players.

No, the club won't start training till we have a plan on when the league will start.

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so we gave the job to dyer

i guess pochettino knocked it back.... 

an easy appointment as bowie knows dyer wont be banging door looking for backing in transfer window like a manager freshly appointed. going down the loan route again, just a thot does the transfer window move to coincide with when football starts again 

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