SNP screw up education again

[RAG]

8 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

Calling marking pupils down based on the school they attend "harsh" is like saying the police were a bit rough with George Floyd.

Totally unacceptable to attempt to draw that parallel when discussing the grading of kids education. 

[EKX16]

Undefined and Cheviotstag responses are well thought out and constructive. I hope the appeal system is successful for the pupils sake. The past 5 months or so has been a nightmare for everyone from education, the economy etc. 

[Beaker71]

18 minutes ago, RAG said:

Totally unacceptable to attempt to draw that parallel when discussing the grading of kids education. 

As I said earlier his piss poor attempt at SNP.baad sensationalism, shows its very ugly head again.

[Scooter]

1 hour ago, gdevoy said:

Calling marking pupils down based on the school they attend "harsh" is like saying the police were a bit rough with George Floyd.

That's a terrible analogy, nobody died yesterday when they got their texts! 

[undefined]

16 hours ago, RAG said:

Would have been a grade A submission, had it not been for @undefineds incorrect assertion, Danish 1990s pop sensations; AQA - famous for singalong classic Barbie Girl - were in charge of the marking at the SQA this year!!

Either you've misunderstood, or you've whooshed me here.  The AQA reference was to the England and Wales results which they'll be issuing over the next couple of weeks.

[Bonbon19]

16 minutes ago, undefined said:

Either you've misunderstood, or you've whooshed me here.  The AQA reference was to the England and Wales results which they'll be issuing over the next couple of weeks.

Wooshed . 
 

The humour on here take a bit of getting used to. 

[gdevoy]

10 minutes ago, undefined said:

Either you've misunderstood, or you've whooshed me here.  The AQA reference was to the England and Wales results which they'll be issuing over the next couple of weeks.

I now feel I may have been a little a little hasty in conflating the SNP's record on education with the methodology of the SQA. As you pointed out, exactly the same issue is going to arise down south as this seems to be a generalised approach across the nation.

However I still feel quite angry at attempts to trivialise what appears to me to be essentially unvarnished institutionalised "classisism". I see even the Torygraph headline in relation to the issue down south is "Pupils face exam chaos 'Life sentence'".   

[Beaker71]

10 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

However I still feel quite angry at attempts to trivialise what appears to me to be essentially unvarnished institutionalised "classisism". I see even the Torygraph headline in relation to the issue down south is "Pupils face exam chaos 'Life sentence'".   

Your assertion that this is somehow deliberate classis is frankly absolute bollocks.

And you've still yet to suggest an alternative methodology which is achievable with a finite resource,  and which reflects the general level of attainment.  Simply saying well done have a grade higher than you would likely have got simply stores up issues for the future.

The appeals process MUST be made speedier, simpler and based on individual evidence.  If so then those kids who appear to have been disadvantaged will not be.  Where I disagree is that kids from some public schools have been automatically upgraded.  But I've yet to hear of a sensible and achievable alternative to the methodology chosen, which was inherently flawed, but then they all are to varying extents.

[gdevoy]

7 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

Your assertion that this is somehow deliberate classis is frankly absolute bollocks.

 

I never said "deliberate", I said "institutionalised". That means its OK because we have always done it that way. It demonstrates an inbuilt assumption by those in authority that poor people are just thicker than rich people and even if they are not who is going to complain?

Just because your teachers are crap doesnt mean you wont pass exams. In fact the  idea that your performance in education is solely dictated by the quality of your teachers us sadly misguided.

[Beaker71]

17 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

Just because your teachers are crap doesnt mean you wont pass exams. In fact the  idea that your performance in education is solely dictated by the quality of your teachers us sadly misguided.

It isn't wholly misguided, but the additional factors are present in poorer households in a higher degree.  Is this instituionalised and the fault of the SQA?

Once again what is your alternative suggestion which doesn't involve simply awarding higher grades based on over eager teachers grade estimates?

No point in lambasting the SNP and SQA if you cannot suggest a credible alternative.

[gdevoy]

13 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

No point in lambasting the SNP and SQA if you cannot suggest a credible alternative.

So how do you explain things to an ambitious hard working teenager whose whole lifes path has just been negatively altered because mummy and daddy could not send them to a posh school?

"Life is s**t if you are poor and dont expect education to make anything better. Maybe you should consider some career opportunities with your local drug dealer".

 

[Beaker71]

1 minute ago, gdevoy said:

So how do you explain things to an ambitious hard working teenager whose whole lifes path has just been negatively altered because mummy and daddy could not send them to a posh school?

"Life is s**t if you are poor and dont expect education to make anything better. Maybe you should consider some career opportunities with your local drug dealer".

 

this is getting ridiculous now.  What is your alternative??

Or is it just SNP baad as I said on ky initial reply.

There have been plenty posts on here explaining the situation and also the appeals process.  You've come up with nothing beyond 'just give them their grades' and sensationalist statements.

[Zorro]

1 hour ago, gdevoy said:

So how do you explain things to an ambitious hard working teenager whose whole lifes path has just been negatively altered because mummy and daddy could not send them to a posh school?

"Life is s**t if you are poor and dont expect education to make anything better. Maybe you should consider some career opportunities with your local drug dealer".

 

Surely the hard working teenager will have course work to show as evidence of their abilities and this will be supported by the school. This is exactly why the appeals process Is there.  

[Bonbon19]

1 hour ago, Zorro said:

Surely the hard working teenager will have course work to show as evidence of their abilities and this will be supported by the school. This is exactly why the appeals process Is there.  

Couldn’t agree more here. 
The pupils who persisted with their studies , completed the course work , attended the online classes etc will be rewarded with the grades they deserved , even if they have to appeal them. Those who perhaps looked upon it as an extended holiday will be regretting that decision if their grades didn’t measure up. Nothing to do with your postcode .
It’s a less than ideal situation and there is blame to be laid at the govts door but it can recoup some political capital by initiating a swift and fair appeals process ASAP.

[gdevoy]

1 hour ago, Zorro said:

Surely the hard working teenager will have course work to show as evidence of their abilities and this will be supported by the school. This is exactly why the appeals process Is there.  

But the SQA have just made a ruling  based on the teenagers course work, their teachers recommendations and which school the went to. What are the grounds for any appeal? 

[chubbs]

There were always going to be issues with the results simply because of the worldwide situation we are all in.

In 'normal' years, do they not adjust the bandings depending on exam results anyway? I.e. if a huge number of people are getting high scores for maths then the threshold for an A might move from 75% to 78%.... or if results are low then they lower it to 72%. I don't know the actual figures and just picked them as examples. I could be wrong but I'm sure I read that this happens.

As far as I know, the teachers were asked to put their pupils into bands for the grades and then to rank them in order within the bands. 

These two points could account for some changing of grades but not that much ... and not where kids have been dropped 2 or 3 grades.

[chubbs]

6 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

But the SQA have just made a ruling  based on the teenagers course work, their teachers recommendations and which school the went to. What are the grounds for any appeal? 

Class work was cherry picked initially .... the appeal will look at everything they've done.  My daughter is appealing 2 subjects and had been told to sort out all her class notes, homework, projects etc in order to support the process.

[Bonbon19]

It seems that the English are using a very similar statistical model to Scotland’s but the basis for appeal is on “very narrow technical grounds” Appeals are only allowed by Ofqual if a school can prove the process was not followed correctly ie an error was made during the calculation process.

Early data published by Ofqual shows calculated grades have had no impact on the attainment gap between disadvantaged pupils and their peers and ethnic minorities and their peers . 

[Shropshire_killie]

What's good about this topic is it shows you folks North of the border are quite right to criticise the SNP on this ( if it is appropriate),  and in an independent Scotland you could also rightly be criticising whoever is in government.  You do not need WM and personally I need to get my head around criticisms of the SNP could or may not be valid but not necessarily associated with anti independence. Hope that makes sense

[Scooter]

13 hours ago, Shropshire_killie said:

What's good about this topic is it shows you folks North of the border are quite right to criticise the SNP on this ( if it is appropriate),  and in an independent Scotland you could also rightly be criticising whoever is in government.  You do not need WM and personally I need to get my head around criticisms of the SNP could or may not be valid but not necessarily associated with anti independence. Hope that makes sense

We get'cha. 

If the criticism of any government comes from a reasonable place with the intention to help make improvements, then fair and well. But when the constant stream of criticising everything comes from a place of hatred and malice, using bad faith arguments, that's no use to anybody and they can just jog on!

Edited August 7, 2020 by Scooter

[DrewWylie]

On 8/4/2020 at 10:14 PM, gdevoy said:

The Scottish Govenment seem to have a real flair for totally bollixing up education. And yet again today they have come up trumps with an artificial awards system lacking any credibility.

Ye couldnae nake it up.

just education ?

[gdevoy]

15 minutes ago, DrewWylie said:

just education ?

And some other stuff. But taken over the piece clearly ahead of the Westminster, Old Etonian, Dreams of Empire show led by BoJo the clown and his merry band of inbred halfwits.

[EKX16]

Undefined and Cheviotstag responses are well thought out and constructive. I hope the appeal system is successful for the pupils sake. The past 5 months or so has been a nightmare for everyone from education, the economy etc. 

4 hours ago, DrewWylie said:

just education ?

The Labour party in Wales is following the same principles as the SQA and Scottish government. I'm sure England will be the same as well.

[gdevoy]

42 minutes ago, EKX16 said:

I'm sure England will be the same as well.

They are and they are not allowing appeals. We just have to gave some sort of faith in Nicola when she said they were relying on the appeals system to mitigate the worst of this, in my view criminal, social profiling, she meant it.

My original complaint was that the SNP were allowing this. It niw appears that flawed as they are, they are making a better job of it than the rest if the UK.

Edited August 7, 2020 by gdevoy

[Beaker71]

54 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

They are and they are not allowing appeals. We just have to gave some sort of faith in Nicola when she said they were relying on the appeals system to mitigate the worst of this, in my view criminal, social profiling, she meant it.

My original complaint was that the SNP were allowing this. It niw appears that flawed as they are, they are making a better job of it than the rest if the UK.

I will ask again, what beyond giving all pupils the distorted grades the teachers put down, is your alternative?

even your late admission that the Scot Giv is still miles ahead of WM, cannot mitigate the SNP bad stuff you’ve posted here.

yet to hear anything coherent