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Time for change?


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Just now, Jedi2 said:

Today was undoubtedly a poor result, no question. From a comfortable position, the red card has completely changed the course of the game, in addition to individual errors. During the recent window, the board have clearly backed AD to bring in his own players and shape the squad the way he wants it. With new players coming in, it can take time for any squad to gel (obviously the likes of Findlay, Broadfoot, Power, Dicker, Burke etc were there before). 

The 'test' of a manager at the start of a new season is normally better defined once 11 matches have been completed against each side. So far we would have expected to beat St. Johnstone at home, and possibly County away, with presumably nothing from Celtic, and Easter Rd always a difficult place to go....so, a 'realistic' expectation of between 4-6 points. Clearly a return of 2 from that is disappointing. Two very tough away games to come, with what looks to be another 'should' win against Utd at home. We then have the Hamilton's and St.Mirren's to come...games in which again we should be looking to take 3pts. 

I know that AD had a mixed record in the 2nd half of last season, but that was following a January transfer window in which we basically brought in Broadfoot and Kabamba, it was a mend and make do, approach by the board. It is difficult to judge a manager until not only from the start of the season they have faced each side, but also until they have their own players in. 

Of course we need an improvement in results, and soon, no doubt, and obviously if we continue on a run where we aren't able to beat the likes of Utd, Hamilton, St.Mirren etc the board would need to assess the situation. However, 4 games in, it is still very early with a new squad.

Incidently, Livi have managed 2 wins in their last 10 matches,(from the end of last season until now), including defeats to Ross County, St. Johnstone, and St.Mirren and a 4-1 at home to Hibs......presumably that would be classed as relegation form as well?

His record isn't "mixed" it's crap.

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1 minute ago, Mclean07 said:

It does for anyone talking about player budgets.

So has everyone on here who voices their opinion to declare their contribution? If you've contributed more is your opinion automatically more important even if you are saying things like Gary Locke has been killies greatest manager?

Ok here is my contribution;

Adult season ticket, child season ticket, international KTV subscription (so I can watch away games and we get the money rather than other clubs), new adult home and away top, new kids home top, new beanie hat, new scarf, new Hummel polo shirt, new captain conker plush toy, new pin pages from the shop, killie trust subscription all the while being on furlough and having less money!

Is this enough for me to be allowed an opinion?

There are people out their (myself included) who didn't think dyer was up to the task and didn't want him to get the job after last season finished as he hadn't shown enough to give confidence he would succeed. But the board decided to give him the job and I would like him to succeed (no one wants to see their team lose) but he isn't winning games! Daniel Stendel had a better record at the end of last season than Dyer and he was in charge of the worst team in the league!

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11 minutes ago, MuirP said:

So has everyone on here who voices their opinion to declare their contribution? If you've contributed more is your opinion automatically more important even if you are saying things like Gary Locke has been killies greatest manager?

Ok here is my contribution;

Adult season ticket, child season ticket, international KTV subscription (so I can watch away games and we get the money rather than other clubs), new adult home and away top, new kids home top, new beanie hat, new scarf, new Hummel polo shirt, new captain conker plush toy, new pin pages from the shop, killie trust subscription all the while being on furlough and having less money!

Is this enough for me to be allowed an opinion?

There are people out their (myself included) who didn't think dyer was up to the task and didn't want him to get the job after last season finished as he hadn't shown enough to give confidence he would succeed. But the board decided to give him the job and I would like him to succeed (no one wants to see their team lose) but he isn't winning games! Daniel Stendel had a better record at the end of last season than Dyer and he was in charge of the worst team in the league!

You’re lying, you haven’t bought a season ticket.

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I didn't want Dyer appointed, but to sack him at this stage of the season is ludicrous. We have backed him with signings and given him a full pre-season, the man deserves to get the time to show what he can do when he has played against every team in the league. We are all disappointed after this week when we could have been potentially been talking about two wins. 

We have played well in all four games with us scoring a decent amount of goals. For all the people talking about us being too negative against St Johnstone we were prior to the red card in complete control and creating plenty of good chances especially from set plays. We have around us Livi and Motherwell who have had similar starts with managers who have been praised and in place much longer that Dyer.

Lets give him time and if we need to make a decision then we can make it with the knowledge that we did everything to make it work, unlike the previous manager. 

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A lot to be said about records and numbers etc etc. But lets look at ADs record in a bit of context eh?

AA was sacked 17th Dec every single player had downed tools and just did not look interested. Therefore I personally give AD the benefit of the doubt for the three 1-0 defeats between AAs sacking and the winter break as he was trying to get the ship back under control. I feel in balance that this is only fair.

Now ... the 12 games between the winter break and lockdown.

Started with a 6-0 win over QP. Good, great, expected from such a game.

For me that leaves 11 games to judge on. Out of that 11, 6 were against the 3 best teams in the league Celtic (2 losses), Rangers (1 win) Aberdeen (3 draws, lost AET in the cup replay). That is a half decent record against those teams imo. 

The other 5 games wins vs Hearts and RC and losses to St Johnstone, Hibs and Accies. I'll concede loss to Accies is always bad, St Johnstone I'll allow as it's a "winnable game" Losing to Hibs is nothing to lose sleep over. 

What I'm trying to say is we shouldn't rush to look at figures. Dyer has done a good job in a tough situation. There's only 2 of the 19 games for me that you can honestly say given the circumstances we should have won.

As for this season. Hibs away: deserved a  point, no shame in losing to them as they have had a good start. Celtic: did anyone expect a point from that? RC: always tricky to go gutted to drop 2 points in the way we did but with another ref we could have been 4-1 up. Today Millen doesn't act a twat and we have 11 men on the pitch we win simple as, McGowan and Findlay had howlers too! Cannot blame Dyer for 3 horror show individual errors.

Yes if you skew the figures without context it looks horrible but given those fixtures, excluding Steve Clark would any other Killie gaffer in the last 30 years have chance of a better record given those fixtures? I'd very much doubt it.

Lets see where we are after a round of fixtures against everyone then we can pass comment. If it's still as bad I'll hold my hands up and say I was wrong but I feel most are being extremely unfair of Alex Dyer.

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1 minute ago, KillieBantam said:

A lot to be said about records and numbers etc etc. But lets look at ADs record in a bit of context eh?

AA was sacked 17th Dec every single player had downed tools and just did not look interested. Therefore I personally give AD the benefit of the doubt for the three 1-0 defeats between AAs sacking and the winter break as he was trying to get the ship back under control. I feel in balance that this is only fair.

Now ... the 12 games between the winter break and lockdown.

Started with a 6-0 win over QP. Good, great, expected from such a game.

For me that leaves 11 games to judge on. Out of that 11, 6 were against the 3 best teams in the league Celtic (2 losses), Rangers (1 win) Aberdeen (3 draws, lost AET in the cup replay). That is a half decent record against those teams imo. 

The other 5 games wins vs Hearts and RC and losses to St Johnstone, Hibs and Accies. I'll concede loss to Accies is always bad, St Johnstone I'll allow as it's a "winnable game" Losing to Hibs is nothing to lose sleep over. 

What I'm trying to say is we shouldn't rush to look at figures. Dyer has done a good job in a tough situation. There's only 2 of the 19 games for me that you can honestly say given the circumstances we should have won.

As for this season. Hibs away: deserved a  point, no shame in losing to them as they have had a good start. Celtic: did anyone expect a point from that? RC: always tricky to go gutted to drop 2 points in the way we did but with another ref we could have been 4-1 up. Today Millen doesn't act a twat and we have 11 men on the pitch we win simple as, McGowan and Findlay had howlers too! Cannot blame Dyer for 3 horror show individual errors.

Yes if you skew the figures without context it looks horrible but given those fixtures, excluding Steve Clark would any other Killie gaffer in the last 30 years have chance of a better record given those fixtures? I'd very much doubt it.

Lets see where we are after a round of fixtures against everyone then we can pass comment. If it's still as bad I'll hold my hands up and say I was wrong but I feel most are being extremely unfair of Alex Dyer.

Are you a Scottish Labour spin doctor? That’s an impressive interpretation. I think your glass in most definitely half full. 

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2 minutes ago, Thebigguy68 said:

Are you a Scottish Labour spin doctor? That’s an impressive interpretation. I think your glass in most definitely half full. 

Nope I just don't jump on every bandwagon going. At the time I said we were wrong in sacking Alessio, I still stand by that. We never gave him time instead we let Kirk f**king Broadfoot f**k us about and run the show.

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7 minutes ago, KillieBantam said:

Nope I just don't jump on every bandwagon going. At the time I said we were wrong in sacking Alessio, I still stand by that. We never gave him time instead we let Kirk f**king Broadfoot f**k us about and run the show.

Fair enough. I don’t either which gets me alot of red. Agree with Alessio. I worried about dyer though. It’s like trying to make the same classic movie with a budget director. It’s gonna be s**t. We need to make a new movie. New characters and a new plot. 

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1 minute ago, Thebigguy68 said:

Fair enough. I don’t either which gets me alot of red. Agree with Alessio. I worried about dyer though. It’s like trying to make the same classic movie with a budget director. It’s gonna be s**t. We need to make a new movie. New characters and a new plot. 

Like I said too many folk are too interested in numbers with no context. I've tried to add some balance to the arguement. Not saying I am right or wrong but lets wait til he has had a full round of fixtures then reflect. Not, as @kilm53 says 4 games into a 2 year contract. 

For me this season is all about survival in both the league and the whole COVID-19 situation anything else is a Brucie

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Just now, KillieBantam said:

Like I said too many folk are too interested in numbers with no context. I've tried to add some balance to the arguement. Not saying I am right or wrong but lets wait til he has had a full round of fixtures then reflect. Not, as @kilm53 says 4 games into a 2 year contract. 

For me this season is all about survival in both the league and the whole COVID-19 situation anything else is a Brucie

Your expectations are mirrored by the current set up, I’m reluctantly having to lower mine to match.

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3 minutes ago, Thebigguy68 said:

Your expectations are mirrored by the current set up, I’m reluctantly having to lower mine to match.

I don't think they are mirrored per say more just my perception of realism. I've always said anything more than staying up is a bonus. Never known Killie as anything less than a top division club and for me thats most important. A few European trips and few trips to Hampden scattered in my life will always be treated as a bonus and not a guarantee.

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