Jump to content

Time for change?


KFC_Macca

Recommended Posts

57 minutes ago, Secret Squirrel said:

I didn't want Dyer appointed, but to sack him at this stage of the season is ludicrous. We have backed him with signings and given him a full pre-season, the man deserves to get the time to show what he can do when he has played against every team in the league. We are all disappointed after this week when we could have been potentially been talking about two wins. 

We have played well in all four games with us scoring a decent amount of goals. For all the people talking about us being too negative against St Johnstone we were prior to the red card in complete control and creating plenty of good chances especially from set plays. We have around us Livi and Motherwell who have had similar starts with managers who have been praised and in place much longer that Dyer.

Lets give him time and if we need to make a decision then we can make it with the knowledge that we did everything to make it work, unlike the previous manager. 

100% agree. Performances have been generally good. Deserves at least one round of games before being judged. What was also different in the clarke era, was the positivity of fans even when the team played well but didn’t get the win (eg Hibs game). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, GDS1980 said:

100% agree. Performances have been generally good. Deserves at least one round of games before being judged. What was also different in the clarke era, was the positivity of fans even when the team played well but didn’t get the win (eg Hibs game). 

I agree all managers need a fair crack of the whip to make their mark especially with new signings to bed in and I do think AD needs to be given a bit more time before we start sharpening the knives although I have heard that ominous noise for a while now and today’s defeat has just upped the level. The issue is that he hasn’t just taken over and is settling in. He has been around the club for ages and his record in charge is awful.

The problem with phrases like deserved a point and good performances when there is no end product is that you become an “unlucky” team and the relegation graveyard is littered with sides like that. 

Not sure the Hibs game under Steve Clarke Is a good example if you mean the home defeat soon after he took over. The positivity was for a spirited performance with the hope of better things to come and that soon materialised.Under AD the little positives never seem to get build on and there will come a point when fan patience runs out and with the run of games coming up that might not be far away.
 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, KillieBantam said:

A lot to be said about records and numbers etc etc. But lets look at ADs record in a bit of context eh?

AA was sacked 17th Dec every single player had downed tools and just did not look interested. Therefore I personally give AD the benefit of the doubt for the three 1-0 defeats between AAs sacking and the winter break as he was trying to get the ship back under control. I feel in balance that this is only fair.

Now ... the 12 games between the winter break and lockdown.

Started with a 6-0 win over QP. Good, great, expected from such a game.

For me that leaves 11 games to judge on. Out of that 11, 6 were against the 3 best teams in the league Celtic (2 losses), Rangers (1 win) Aberdeen (3 draws, lost AET in the cup replay). That is a half decent record against those teams imo. 

The other 5 games wins vs Hearts and RC and losses to St Johnstone, Hibs and Accies. I'll concede loss to Accies is always bad, St Johnstone I'll allow as it's a "winnable game" Losing to Hibs is nothing to lose sleep over. 

What I'm trying to say is we shouldn't rush to look at figures. Dyer has done a good job in a tough situation. There's only 2 of the 19 games for me that you can honestly say given the circumstances we should have won.

As for this season. Hibs away: deserved a  point, no shame in losing to them as they have had a good start. Celtic: did anyone expect a point from that? RC: always tricky to go gutted to drop 2 points in the way we did but with another ref we could have been 4-1 up. Today Millen doesn't act a twat and we have 11 men on the pitch we win simple as, McGowan and Findlay had howlers too! Cannot blame Dyer for 3 horror show individual errors.

Yes if you skew the figures without context it looks horrible but given those fixtures, excluding Steve Clark would any other Killie gaffer in the last 30 years have chance of a better record given those fixtures? I'd very much doubt it.

Lets see where we are after a round of fixtures against everyone then we can pass comment. If it's still as bad I'll hold my hands up and say I was wrong but I feel most are being extremely unfair of Alex Dyer.

You cant just pick and choose what games count.

Aye, the players downed tools under Alessio, correct (and should have been shipped out imo), they all wanted Dyer as manager (even though he was assistant under Alessio which indicates he was pulling in a different direction from the manager), they got Dyer as manager so you would expect perhaps a 'new manager bounce' especially in these circumstances. Never happened and somehow the 3 games after he took over don't count because the players were sad because of what alessio had done to them... despite them getting their own way?

You're making excuses for a bad record, players were still in a bad place because of alessio- doesnt count. Played teams higher than us in the league- doesnt count. Hibs had a good start this season- doesnt count. Ross County is tricky- doesnt count.

You need to think about who is skewing the figures. People are just stating facts on his record. Is Hibs, Celtic, Ross County and St Johnstone really as tough a start to the season as some are trying to make out?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, KFC_Macca said:

Alex Dyer is popular with the players and seems like a nice guy. However, his record as manager is terrible.

I feel like we will have a better chance of turning this around if we are decisive and change manager now. Anyone agree it’s time for change?

If it wasn't for the Steve Clarke association, I suspect that he would have had a far tougher time from the supporters. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, GDS1980 said:

100% agree. Performances have been generally good. Deserves at least one round of games before being judged. What was also different in the clarke era, was the positivity of fans even when the team played well but didn’t get the win (eg Hibs game). 

I’m not sure about a round of matches but, now Brophy seems to be fit, we need to see what the team can do. 

And what transfer activity can be done. A couple of great loans could give the side a real boost.  

But the stupid mistakes need to be eliminated. Almost every goal conceded has been down to at least one individual error. 

And AD needs to think about his selections, tactics and use of substitutions. He used three yesterday - he could have made another couple, if only to use up time/ disrupt play. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, skygod said:

I’m not sure about a round of matches but, now Brophy seems to be fit, we need to see what the team can do. 

And what transfer activity can be done. A couple of great loans could give the side a real boost.  

But the stupid mistakes need to be eliminated. Almost every goal conceded has been down to at least one individual error. 

And AD needs to think about his selections, tactics and use of substitutions. He used three yesterday - he could have made another couple, if only to use up time/ disrupt play. 

 

He couldn’t have made any more to disrupt play unless at the same time as when he used the other subs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If last season had not been ended early, under Dyers charge we might have been in a play off position come the end of the season as results were poor.

Had that been the case would have have got the job for this season.

We now just have a continuation of the same poor results.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, robkil said:

He said on Sportsound a month or so back part of his agreement with St Johnstone was he can't take a job up here until December.

Shouldn’t  stop us making approaches to TW before this if that’s what the board decide to do , but knowing this boards past record it won’t do so , and another team will beat us to it . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dyer may now have the issue where he has to upset some of his pals and the question is can he do that. Individual players threw that game away yesterday. Undid all the good work as we were well on top until the sending off. 

Think we all accepted giving Dyer the benefit of the doubt but after a stuttering start in the league to lose yesterday was unthinkable. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, robkil said:

He said on Sportsound a month or so back part of his agreement with St Johnstone was he can't take a job up here until December.

I had September in my head for some reason. December might be how long Bowie has in mind to give Dyer at any rate... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we give Dyer a round of fixtures this means he is in charge for the following:-

Rangers (away)

Dundee Utd (home)

Aberdeen (away)

Hamilton (home)

St Mirren (away)

Motherwell (home)

Livingston (away)

How many points from these fixtures keep him in a job?

As for comparing Dyer to Robinson or Holt. Robinson and Holt have achieved previously at their clubs. What has Dyer achieved at Killie?

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, MarkyMark said:

If we give Dyer a round of fixtures this means he is in charge for the following:-

Rangers (away)

Dundee Utd (home)

Aberdeen (away)

Hamilton (home)

St Mirren (away)

Motherwell (home)

Livingston (away)

How many points from these fixtures keep him in a job?

As for comparing Dyer to Robinson or Holt. Robinson and Holt have achieved previously at their clubs. What has Dyer achieved at Killie?

 

 

 

Under ssc I’d have been “budgeting” for 14 points and hoping for more. Now, maybe expect 7. A 50% reduction in expectation levels in 18 months.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Gaz of the 20/20 said:

You cant just pick and choose what games count.

Aye, the players downed tools under Alessio, correct (and should have been shipped out imo), they all wanted Dyer as manager (even though he was assistant under Alessio which indicates he was pulling in a different direction from the manager), they got Dyer as manager so you would expect perhaps a 'new manager bounce' especially in these circumstances. Never happened and somehow the 3 games after he took over don't count because the players were sad because of what alessio had done to them... despite them getting their own way?

You're making excuses for a bad record, players were still in a bad place because of alessio- doesnt count. Played teams higher than us in the league- doesnt count. Hibs had a good start this season- doesnt count. Ross County is tricky- doesnt count.

You need to think about who is skewing the figures. People are just stating facts on his record. Is Hibs, Celtic, Ross County and St Johnstone really as tough a start to the season as some are trying to make out?

Im not making excuses, I'm just being realistic sorry for not falling in line with the usual suspects spouting the same s**te as always throwing their toys out the pram. I feel my arguement is balanced and completely unbiased. AD hasn't had a fair crack at the whip and fans. From the first 4 games, at best I expected 5 points (DLDW) for me only yesterday was a disappointment and do I blame Dyer for that? No not at all, the defence is 100% to blame

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, KillieBantam said:

A lot to be said about records and numbers etc etc. But lets look at ADs record in a bit of context eh?

AA was sacked 17th Dec every single player had downed tools and just did not look interested. Therefore I personally give AD the benefit of the doubt for the three 1-0 defeats between AAs sacking and the winter break as he was trying to get the ship back under control. I feel in balance that this is only fair.

Now ... the 12 games between the winter break and lockdown.

Started with a 6-0 win over QP. Good, great, expected from such a game.

For me that leaves 11 games to judge on. Out of that 11, 6 were against the 3 best teams in the league Celtic (2 losses), Rangers (1 win) Aberdeen (3 draws, lost AET in the cup replay). That is a half decent record against those teams imo. 

The other 5 games wins vs Hearts and RC and losses to St Johnstone, Hibs and Accies. I'll concede loss to Accies is always bad, St Johnstone I'll allow as it's a "winnable game" Losing to Hibs is nothing to lose sleep over. 

What I'm trying to say is we shouldn't rush to look at figures. Dyer has done a good job in a tough situation. There's only 2 of the 19 games for me that you can honestly say given the circumstances we should have won.

As for this season. Hibs away: deserved a  point, no shame in losing to them as they have had a good start. Celtic: did anyone expect a point from that? RC: always tricky to go gutted to drop 2 points in the way we did but with another ref we could have been 4-1 up. Today Millen doesn't act a twat and we have 11 men on the pitch we win simple as, McGowan and Findlay had howlers too! Cannot blame Dyer for 3 horror show individual errors.

Yes if you skew the figures without context it looks horrible but given those fixtures, excluding Steve Clark would any other Killie gaffer in the last 30 years have chance of a better record given those fixtures? I'd very much doubt it.

Lets see where we are after a round of fixtures against everyone then we can pass comment. If it's still as bad I'll hold my hands up and say I was wrong but I feel most are being extremely unfair of Alex Dyer.

As someone posted earlier, since AD was appointed Hamilton have accumulated more points than us. That tells you how badly he is doing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, MarkyMark said:

If we give Dyer a round of fixtures this means he is in charge for the following:-

Rangers (away)

Dundee Utd (home)

Aberdeen (away)

Hamilton (home)

St Mirren (away)

Motherwell (home)

Livingston (away)

How many points from these fixtures keep him in a job?

As for comparing Dyer to Robinson or Holt. Robinson and Holt have achieved previously at their clubs. What has Dyer achieved at Killie?

 

 

 

LWLWWDD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, MarkyMark said:

If we give Dyer a round of fixtures this means he is in charge for the following:-

Rangers (away)

Dundee Utd (home)

Aberdeen (away)

Hamilton (home)

St Mirren (away)

Motherwell (home)

Livingston (away)

How many points from these fixtures keep him in a job?

As for comparing Dyer to Robinson or Holt. Robinson and Holt have achieved previously at their clubs. What has Dyer achieved at Killie?

 

 

 

St Johnstone didn’t win any of their first 9 games last year but Tommy Wright had plenty of credit in the bank built up over a number of years. The board kept faith with him and he delivered yet another top six finish. 
I can’t see Dyer doing the same. 

Edited by historyman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Gaz of the 20/20 said:

You need to think about who is skewing the figures. People are just stating facts on his record. Is Hibs, Celtic, Ross County and St Johnstone really as tough a start to the season as some are trying to make out?

Exactly. 4 games, 1 against the OF and 3 against the rest. Totally average and nothing unusual about that. 
People are just looking for excuses. If it had been Aberdeen, Rangers, Livingston and Motherwell they would have been saying that was a tough start. 
It seems to me that every game is considered a tough game for us now. 
Perhaps that says more about us than the opposition. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, KillieBantam said:

do I blame Dyer for that? No not at all, the defence is 100% to blame

Unless it is a player manager, no manager can ever be at fault for anything on the pitch, however, he is responsible for who goes on the pitch, his tactics, his use of subs, his change of play when things not working, and in that respect with a win ratio of 21% he is getting something wrong.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...