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Crowd test events


piffer

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18 hours ago, Dieter's Heeder said:

But your first point really doesn't take into account any unintended consequences. Those who are mingling in the surroundings of several thousand people returning home to vulnerable family members or spreading it through shops, schools and the wider community. 

If it was as simple as being a risk only for those who wanted to take it, the gates would be open by now. It's fine to risk your health and life but your approach is risking everyone else's, including those who chose not to go. 

Why has shielding been paused then if this is the risk?

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4 hours ago, Bigdaw said:

Its double standards , It should be easy to sit 2 metres apart in a football stadium. I know people will walk side by side or family in groups could be closer. But in the past couple of months , we have seen mass protests and thousands crammed onto beaches and now i see pictures of Kids returning to School were they are shoulder to shoulder walking to class. Yet the Covid infection rate if true is falling since the above happened. pretty sure 4000 fans in an 18000 stadium is no more a risk than the above, which has had no control whats so ever.

Scotland has recorded the highest number of daily coronavirus cases in almost three months

Speaking during the Scottish government’s daily briefing, Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, said 19,534 people had tested positive for Covid-19 in Scotland, up by 77 from 19,457 the day before. That is the highest number of cases in almost three months.

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6 minutes ago, KFCDJ said:

Scotland has recorded the highest number of daily coronavirus cases in almost three months

Speaking during the Scottish government’s daily briefing, Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, said 19,534 people had tested positive for Covid-19 in Scotland, up by 77 from 19,457 the day before. That is the highest number of cases in almost three months.

Why don’t they tell us the condition of the cases testing positive?

77 with little or no symptoms is a completely different situation v 77 needing hospital admission.

 

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2 minutes ago, Richaway said:

Why don’t they tell us the condition of the cases testing positive?

77 with little or no symptoms is a completely different situation v 77 needing hospital admission.

 

Because its mainly the younger generation who are being infected, for the time being, due to social gatherings and work environments. When those numbers increase, they inevitably spread to the older and more vulnerable population as they run through families. Then hospitalizations and serious cases follow, this is how it works pretty much everywhere if its not kept under control. 

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8 minutes ago, Dieter's Heeder said:

Because its mainly the younger generation who are being infected, for the time being, due to social gatherings and work environments. When those numbers increase, they inevitably spread to the older and more vulnerable population as they run through families. Then hospitalizations and serious cases follow, this is how it works pretty much everywhere if its not kept under control. 

I'd say 1% of total tests returning positive results is keeping it under control.  There were always going to be spikes and clusters. Country needs to return to work.

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13 minutes ago, Dieter's Heeder said:

Because its mainly the younger generation who are being infected, for the time being, due to social gatherings and work environments. When those numbers increase, they inevitably spread to the older and more vulnerable population as they run through families. Then hospitalizations and serious cases follow, this is how it works pretty much everywhere if its not kept under control. 

So why is shielding paused then?

 

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34 minutes ago, KFCDJ said:

Scotland has recorded the highest number of daily coronavirus cases in almost three months

Speaking during the Scottish government’s daily briefing, Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, said 19,534 people had tested positive for Covid-19 in Scotland, up by 77 from 19,457 the day before. That is the highest number of cases in almost three months.

Against that gyms and swimming pools are reopening from 31st August, so they can't be that worried. 

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42 minutes ago, Richaway said:

Why don’t they tell us the condition of the cases testing positive?

77 with little or no symptoms is a completely different situation v 77 needing hospital admission.

 

Currently we’re in the middle of a casedemic , a rise in the number of cases of covid but no rise in the number of hospital admissions , ICU admissions or deaths . The rise in the number of cases is due to a rise in the number of tests carried out weekly from around 2000 in April and May when these tests mainly confirmed hospital cases until the 8-10000  carried out in August to confirm the asymptomatic and mildly affected as the test and protect measures are rolled out .
If everyone follows the FASTS rules there is no medical reason as far as I can see to stop fans attending a football match . 

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1 hour ago, KFCDJ said:

Scotland has recorded the highest number of daily coronavirus cases in almost three months

Speaking during the Scottish government’s daily briefing, Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, said 19,534 people had tested positive for Covid-19 in Scotland, up by 77 from 19,457 the day before. That is the highest number of cases in almost three months.

Fed up with the lies.....Tens of thousands of Covid-19 tests have been double-counted in the Government’s official tally, public health officials have admitted.

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17 minutes ago, Scooter said:

It's all a conspiracy, eh? 

Hows it a conspiracy if the Gov admit they gone the test results wrong ....

Tens of thousands of Covid-19 tests have been double-counted in the Government’s official tally, public health officials have admitted.

Diagnostic tests which involve taking saliva and nasal samples from the same patient are being counted as two tests, not one.

The Department of Health and Social Care and Public Health England each confirmed the double-counting.

This inflates the daily reported diagnostic test numbers by over 20 per cent, with that proportion being much higher earlier on in the crisis before home test kits were added to the daily totals.

Almost 350,000 more tests have been reported in Government data than people tested since the start of the pandemic.

The discrepancy is in large part explained by the practice of counting salvia and nasal samples for the same individual twice.

Public Health England oversee the testing of patients who are seriously ill in hospital, as well as the most critical key workers.

The test involves a swab from the mouth and nose as well as a sample of saliva. Although both of these are taken from the same patient, they are counted twice by the Government in its daily data.

It is not the first time the Government has been caught massaging the testing data. It was accused last month of including thousands of home tests which had been posted but not completed in a bid to reach its target of 100,000 tests.

Jon Ashworth MP, Labour’s Shadow Health Secretary, said: “Ministers have already received an embarrassing slap on the wrists for their dodgy spin on testing figures. It seems they haven’t learnt their lesson. We need absolute transparency in the presentation of these figures”.

The Government announced at the beginning of May that it would be extending its target from 100,000 tests per day to 200,000 tests per day. But so far it has only hit the 100,000 target nine times in the 20 days since its introduction.

Global health experts said the Government should stop fixating on its arbitrary targets and instead focus on making testing work to drive down Covid-19 infections in the UK.

Nicola Stonehouse, Professor of Molecular Virology at the University of Leeds, said: “I don’t think it’s helpful to be simply focused on the numbers of tests. We should concentrate on using our testing intelligently and combining testing with contact tracing."

PHE said that there were other reasons why one person may receive more than one test.

These included repeating a test after receiving inconclusive results and double checking a negative result.

Devi Sridhar, Professor of Global Public Health at the University of Edinburgh, said: “Instead of fixating on the exact number of tests, we should be looking at the ratio of confirmed cases to total number of people tested (and bringing this percentage down), the speed of tests and getting results to individuals.

"All while setting up a massive public health infrastructure with testing sites around the country for regular use by social care workers, health workers, and even towards teachers as capacity grows. The number of tests required is linked to how much transmission is occurring."

Both Public Health England and the Department for Health and Social Care did not offer further comment.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/tens-thousands-coronavirus-tests-have-double-counted-officials/

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1 minute ago, Bigdaw said:

The Telegraph is behind a paywall, so I can't tell you what's in that article that you've posted twice now.

Some tests have been double counted, in England though, not in Scotland. So doesn't really relate to the fact that cases in Scotland are on the up.

Also, cases and testing are two different things. The bloated figure was for the amount of tests made available, not the number of tests returned positive.

This is the data dashboard from the Guardian. It gives you some useful data like the number of cases (which is creeping up) and a map showing week-on-week increase in number of cases by authority (where you'll see that NHS A&A is one of the pinker area - i.e., a greater week-on-week increase).

Having said all that, I'm not sure this is the best place to discuss a pandemic.

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1 hour ago, Scooby_Doo said:

So why is shielding paused then?

 

I've already said, there's a massive jump from pausing shielding to suggesting we open the floodgates for large crowd events without the necessary testing and precautions carried out before hand. It's a recipe for disaster otherwise. 

 

50 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

Currently we’re in the middle of a casedemic , a rise in the number of cases of covid but no rise in the number of hospital admissions , ICU admissions or deaths . The rise in the number of cases is due to a rise in the number of tests carried out weekly from around 2000 in April and May when these tests mainly confirmed hospital cases until the 8-10000  carried out in August to confirm the asymptomatic and mildly affected as the test and protect measures are rolled out .
If everyone follows the FASTS rules there is no medical reason as far as I can see to stop fans attending a football match . 

Sorry but this sounds far too much like the nonsense we hear from Donald Trump on a daily basis. He wasn't concerned about the rise in cases in Florida during late May and June. He told us it was because of an increase in testing and it was mainly the younger people being infected. Tell me where that eventually led to again and tell me why here is going to be any different if we do things the same way? 

Some proper burying head in the sand going on here, I think some of us will be in for a major shock come the winter. 

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2 hours ago, Richaway said:

Why don’t they tell us the condition of the cases testing positive?

77 with little or no symptoms is a completely different situation v 77 needing hospital admission.

 

Or out of how many tests. If it is 77 positives out of 10000 tests, with most of the tests targeted in areas where there is a known outbreak. Then it is less significant than last month there were 76 positives out of 1000 tests.

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19 hours ago, stewarty66 said:

And there you have it.

Despite drunken fights taking places in cities and towns all over the world, fitba fans get persecuted.

The lack of logic and consistency in Holyrood and Westminster governments decisions is baffling but unsurprising. 

I feel your pain, it’s total hypocrisy. In general people have behaved responsibly and I am sure they would at football matches as well. Buses and trains have been running right through the pandemic. 

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3 hours ago, Mojike and Bod said:

I'd say 1% of total tests returning positive results is keeping it under control.  There were always going to be spikes and clusters. Country needs to return to work.

Meanwhile cancer etc is going undiagnosed as the whole world spins round covid. I had a routine blood test last year which raised alarm bells and had no symptoms whatsoever. Luckily I was ok, but this year, like so many others, routine tests have stopped. Haven’t a clue what the GPS are doing to pass the time these days. 

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10 minutes ago, Mclean07 said:

Meanwhile cancer etc is going undiagnosed as the whole world spins round covid. I had a routine blood test last year which raised alarm bells and had no symptoms whatsoever. Luckily I was ok, but this year, like so many others, routine tests have stopped. Haven’t a clue what the GPS are doing to pass the time these days. 

The GPS are actually answering the phones  doing E consultations and trying to see every f**king old biddy who has a sniffle.  Same as always.  My wife works across three surgeries for the health and social care partnership and her job hasn't stopped due to covid.

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2 hours ago, Dieter's Heeder said:

I've already said, there's a massive jump from pausing shielding to suggesting we open the floodgates for large crowd events without the necessary testing and precautions carried out before hand. It's a recipe for disaster otherwise. 

 

Sorry but this sounds far too much like the nonsense we hear from Donald Trump on a daily basis. He wasn't concerned about the rise in cases in Florida during late May and June. He told us it was because of an increase in testing and it was mainly the younger people being infected. Tell me where that eventually led to again and tell me why here is going to be any different if we do things the same way? 

Some proper burying head in the sand going on here, I think some of us will be in for a major shock come the winter. 

Perhaps I didn’t explain it well Dieter the graphs below ably demonstrates that although the case numbers are on the rise deaths aren’t despite more testing. Very different from what Trump is saying ,google casedemic for further explanations 

87411584-53CF-4828-A569-3D8E5C9A6798.jpeg

507767DF-B272-4A35-A598-DB331D4544AE.jpeg

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11 minutes ago, Wrangodog said:

We only have around 3,000 season-ticket holders and some of them will be family groups. Surely we could get that many in even if we have to stagger arrival/departure times and have increased hand sanitation points. 

Agreed. 

Assuming non season ticket holders would have to book online to ensure social distancing. 

Which begs the question.....

Have the club considered this?

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11 minutes ago, Jasg said:

Can’t understand how you can’t go to football but can go to caravan parks where the kids(and a lot of adults)pay no attention to social distancing.

I like to go camping at caravan parks with much fewer than 60,000 people and where I have less than 8 people within 1m of me.

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