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How would you pay for Covid ?


Bonbon19

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8 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

We all know that tax rises are imminent and possibly necessary to pay for the Covid pandemic.

What measures would you take to try and balance the books ?

There will be no whataboutery tolerated and no GERS figures quoted , treat it as if we/them/us are one nation please . 

Mibbe need to look at all capital infrastructure projects including defence and bin them. Not sure how much that would save though. Prob a fraction. Look at all offshore monies held by rich folk resident here, change the law and tax the feckers. Prob need to sell off some of the tons of gold that are stashed in the treasury. Prob need to increase tax for some of the higher paid folk. Very difficult question. 

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Well first off I'd boot out the incompetents in charge right now, to be fair they could not organise a successful piss up in a brewery let alone a world class test and trace system. And I think you'll find Charles Walker, who is vice-chair of the 1922 committee of Conservative backbenchers 1922 committee said pretty much the same thing in the Observer on Sunday.

I'd find myself some people more interested in fiscal prudence than pandering to some nonsensical "rebuilding empire" ideology. Then I'd increase taxes across the board except for people on minimum wage and I'd borrow a load of money and invest it heavily in infrastructure like roads / rail and fibre optic broadband.

Then I'd look at where the government are spending money on education. I just know we could get a much better return I than at present if we could lose the elite obsessing with woke issues and focus on competence.  

Edited by gdevoy
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5 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

We all know that tax rises are imminent and possibly necessary to pay for the Covid pandemic.

What measures would you take to try and balance the books ?

There will be no whataboutery tolerated and no GERS figures quoted , treat it as if we/them/us are one nation please . 

Extend furlough scheme at 60% of salary on sectors still not safe to reopen (night time economy, night clubs, entertainment venues, pubs etc where social distancing is impossible )

to help pay towards it...

Raise a temporary Covid income tax on all salaries over £ 25 k at say + 2%, Increasing at £10 k intervals until you get to say 60% tax on all salaries over £100 k
 

introduce a corporation tax levy on all businesses that have been doing well over the period 

make it a legal requirement that all wages are paid into a bank account - which creates a paper trail for the cash / black economy which will lead to more declared Taxable income and increased tax take.

for all businesses registered in tax havens they will no longer be eligible for any more public sector grants or subsidies. Not eligible for any public sector contracts until they register for tax in this country. 
 

Clearly all of these things would require planning to make them workable, but a combination of measures like this could enable support to be maintained for the sectors that need it, and at the same time the businesses which continue to thrive and the people who continue to earn more share more of the load 

this is a very  rushed tuppence worth - there must be more that can be done that is fair and equitable

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Literally close the tax avoidance loopholes,  this loses 10s of billions a year.  Make these c**ts pay their way.

How on earth can it be right that I as an individual pay more tax than f**king Starbucks ffs!

Bin Trident replacement instantly saving 300billion iver 20 years. 

Edited by Beaker71
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49 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

We all know that tax rises are imminent and possibly necessary to pay for the Covid pandemic.

What measures would you take to try and balance the books ?

There will be no whataboutery tolerated and no GERS figures quoted , treat it as if we/them/us are one nation please . 

Clamp down on tax avoidance, reduce spending on defence (specifically Trident).

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57 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

Literally close the tax avoidance loopholes,  this loses 10s of billions a year.  Make these c**ts pay their way.

If only it wis that simple. You are right but nobody seems to have the wit or the will to close said loopholes.

58 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

How on earth can it be right that I as an individual pay more tax than f**king Starbucks ffs!

Indeed, Like you I also bear more of the UK's tax burden than Starbucks. I think it has something to do with the fact they would rather pay money to fancy tax lawyers than to the UK exchequer. 

1 hour ago, Beaker71 said:

Bin Trident replacement instantly saving 300billion iver 20 years. 

This very emphatically! The UK has no current strategic or tactical justification for having nukes. All the justification is historical. Billions and Billions spent on nostalgia and memories of lost empire. 

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This is a hoot.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-53971771

Douglas Ross calls for 'massive' investment in transport links.

His party has been in power for 10 years but has shown absolutely no interest in this stuff. They have been so far up their own arses with "taking back control from Europe" to interest themselves in the wellbeing of the people. In fact hey have worked tirelessly to ensure the SNP are unable to go down this path. Now he is slagging them off for not doing it. Ye couldnae make it up.

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5 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

This is a hoot.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-53971771

Douglas Ross calls for 'massive' investment in transport links.

His party has been in power for 10 years but has shown absolutely no interest in this stuff. They have been so far up their own arses with "taking back control from Europe" to interest themselves in the wellbeing of the people. In fact hey have worked tirelessly to ensure the SNP are unable to go down this path. Now he is slagging them off for not doing it. Ye couldnae make it up.

And we will now be back onto the constitution debate....... 

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14 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

If only it wis that simple. You are right but nobody seems to have the wit or the will to close said loopholes.

Indeed, Like you I also bear more of the UK's tax burden than Starbucks. I think it has something to do with the fact they would rather pay money to fancy tax lawyers than to the UK exchequer. 

This very emphatically! The UK has no current strategic or tactical justification for having nukes. All the justification is historical. Billions and Billions spent on nostalgia and memories of lost empire. 

It should be that simple, these companies must be taken to task on how little they pay versus their earnings. The demand for their supply is there so it's not like they will pack up and leave if we squeeze them for more tax. 

Trident is a completely outdated concept in the UK, who are we defending against...Russia? They could and would wipe us out in the blink of an eye (with or without trident). 

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4 minutes ago, Fudger said:

 

Trident is a completely outdated concept in the UK, who are we defending against...Russia? They could and would wipe us out in the blink of an eye (with or without trident). 

That's my issue with it.

It's outdated, costs a fortune, will never be used and it' will do nothing to deter Russia should they wish to wipe Britain off the map.

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20 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

This is a hoot.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-53971771

Douglas Ross calls for 'massive' investment in transport links.

His party has been in power for 10 years but has shown absolutely no interest in this stuff. They have been so far up their own arses with "taking back control from Europe" to interest themselves in the wellbeing of the people. In fact hey have worked tirelessly to ensure the SNP are unable to go down this path. Now he is slagging them off for not doing it. Ye couldnae make it up.

He does know about the Queensferry crossing, m74 extension completion,  border railway, completion of Edinburgh trams, Aberdeen Western peripheral and the impending Huadigan Junction upgrades......  not to mention dualling rhe A9 surely?

Infrastructure is a devolved matter, but when his rancid vermin infested sack of s**te party keep cutting the budget its very difficult to invest.

However investment in infrastructure   even from borrowing could generate better returns for the exchequer  so he isnt too far wrong on the concept   but the finger of blame he uses is typical of a Scots tory  and many mad yoonatics.  Borrowing in Scotland is strictly controlled by wm and the last request to the Queensferry crossing was denied,  so its even more difficult to achieve what this little rat wants.

Edited by Beaker71
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Just now, Fudger said:

It should be that simple, these companies must be taken to task on how little they pay versus their earnings. The demand for their supply is there so it's not like they will pack up and leave if we squeeze them for more tax. 

These companies can afford far cleverer lawyers than work for the UK government. And they have huge global influence in many areas. The UK government simply doesn't have the power to make them "play the game". The EU has a better chance, but look at the tangle even they have got in with Microsoft. But hey the UK don't need anything the EU has to offer apparently.

4 minutes ago, Fudger said:

Trident is a completely outdated concept in the UK, who are we defending against...Russia? They could and would wipe us out in the blink of an eye (with or without trident). 

In the 1940s the UK and it's empire could complete with the USSSR in nuclear weapons. It is that competition the Trident system is based on. But now the UK has a fraction of the global influence it had then and the USSSR does not exist. Now the US has out gunned whatever is left of the Russian empire by some way and the real nose to nose stuff now comes from the Chinese. Real current threats are Iran and Pakistan getting in a nuke off with Israel and or North Korea doing something incredibly stupid.

Nobody gives a stuff about the UK. We simply canny afford the defence spending of the 1940s but Trident seems like it canny be challenged.

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14 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

These companies can afford far cleverer lawyers than work for the UK government. And they have huge global influence in many areas. The UK government simply doesn't have the power to make them "play the game". The EU has a better chance, but look at the tangle even they have got in with Microsoft. But hey the UK don't need anything the EU has to offer apparently.

In the 1940s the UK and it's empire could complete with the USSSR in nuclear weapons. It is that competition the Trident system is based on. But now the UK has a fraction of the global influence it had then and the USSSR does not exist. Now the US has out gunned whatever is left of the Russian empire by some way and the real nose to nose stuff now comes from the Chinese. Real current threats are Iran and Pakistan getting in a nuke off with Israel and or North Korea doing something incredibly stupid.

Trident/Polaris was only used as a platform for the uk nukes, because the uks ICB missile program was too expensive and got cancelled in the 1960s, in favour of Polaris. Polaris was an American technology, Wilson got by doing a deal with the Americans, using the Holy Loch base as a bargaining chip.  The Americans were happy to have the UK participate in Manhattan, but once they realised how well it worked, they refused the UK access to the data and the UK basically had to reverse engineer it. Given our current nukes are American anyway, require American firing codes, is obvious it isnt an independent deterrent and is one the US would Probably rather we didnt have..

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I’d be as happy as anyone to see trident cancelled but at this time it’s only a sensible option if the savings are reinvested in capital spending projects rather than to try and fill a huge black hole of debt. Destabilising more companies, involved in the supply chain, and increasing the number of unemployed is not a desirable outcome in the current situation. 
 

I’d also be ultra cautious about going after the tax avoiders (at this time)for the same reasons. Many companies will have seen profits plummet and will have incurred increased costs due to the pandemic. While companies are on their knees, it’s probably not the best time to kick them in the baws. 
 

Longer term the tax system in the U.K. needs a complete overhaul from top to bottom. For every Amazon or Starbucks shirking their social responsibilities, there are tens of thousands of plumbers, joiners, hairdressers, nail bars being paid cash in hand and “forgetting” to include it in their books. Personally, I’m in favour of scrapping all forms of taxation and imposing a single land value tax, but that’s probably a bit radical for these times. 

Edited by Zorro
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19 minutes ago, RAG said:

Trident/Polaris was only used as a platform for the uk nukes, because the uks ICB missile program was too expensive and got cancelled in the 1960s, in favour of Polaris. Polaris was an American technology, Wilson got by doing a deal with the Americans, using the Holy Loch base as a bargaining chip.  The Americans were happy to have the UK participate in Manhattan, but once they realised how well it worked, they refused the UK access to the data and the UK basically had to reverse engineer it. Given our current nukes are American anyway, require American firing codes, is obvious it isnt an independent deterrent and is one the US would Probably rather we didnt have..

This must be a first. Pretty well everybody posting thinks its a total waste of money not a single dissenting voice.

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4 minutes ago, Zorro said:

Destabilising more companies, involved in the supply chain, and increasing the number of unemployed is not a desirable outcome in the current situation.

That is the down side. Barrow, a town of about 40,000 souls would be wiped out at a stroke. And that is just the start. The money would hve to be carefully re-invested so probably not a good idea while Boris and his travelling circus are in town.

Edited by gdevoy
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We can't tax or 'cut' our way out of this Covid mess anyway.  Only thing to do is build and grow, remember that last, lost decade of austerity?  Any discussion about radically re-altering the UK tax system is pointless.  It ain't gonna happen in a radical enough manner, overthrowing 40 years of Thatcherite low tax, low wage, free market led economics, to improve the lot of most in the 5th most unequal country on Earth - especially under a Tory government.  Only thing to do is accept it as the next stage in the economic demise all former world empires endure, move to Europe while you can, or do something better yourself.  And don't whatever you do worry about the national debt, UKs not paid any of that back for about 400 years and has no intention of doing so.  A bit of inflation, (like we've not seen in decades) will make short work of that debt, which is really just numbers in a bank of England computer and doesn't exist in the real world - they could make it disappear, or let the bank of England go bust and replace it with another central bank at 9:01am on the day the BoE went bust. No debt, problem solved.

Edited by RAG
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