Matchday Aberdeen match, Fred

[piffer]

27 minutes ago, bute-killiefan said:

Doesn't matter if he 'didn't mean it', but any Killie manager saying he's going home happy after a DEFEAT needs chased. That is tinpot stuff

Bizarre listening to Dyer then the rest of the managers in the league. They were all talking about winning games and the importance of three points. Dyer is happy with the performance

[Gaz of the 20/20]

2 hours ago, Pompey Exile said:

Dyer post match said he's going back to Kilmarnock.

worst thing I've seen all day!

[Gaz of the 20/20]

2 minutes ago, Killie lad said:

He also said we created a lot of opportunities, what utter pish. If you're not going to give any actual insight then just don't bother. 

this whole narrative of playing well and being unlucky.... if you say something enough then people believe it, which has happened with a lot of our fans and also the chairman by look of things. 

This forum is only a snippet of our support and from all of the lads that go on our bus and never miss a game, i think there is 1, maybe 2 out of 50ish that think Dyer is the right man for the job. 

All the excuses about the games being too hard, the refs being baddies, the players making mistakes etc.... have been used up now. The next few games need to be won and even then i know many have seen enough that Dyer is not the man to take us forward. 

[Jamsie]

Celtic are miles ahead of Rangers, who are miles ahead of Aberdeen, who are slightly ahead of Hibs, although it’s early in the season. 9 of 12 teams could easily go down. Waiting to play the “easier” teams and assuming well pick up points cause we did “well” at Santiago Pittodrie will see us adrift by December. 
Alex seems to think the fans loved to see Kiltie playing left, right and through the middle today. Totally oblivious to the fact that fans love to see goals and points. 

Best case scenario we go on a run now.. realistically we’re looking at an 8/9th place finish. We’ve seen recently how continual lower half finishes lead to a slide. The club needs to aim for improvement every season to hopefully establish ourselves again as a top 6 side then ideally kick on. Simply accepting being in the top tier will see us quickly fall behind the Livingston, Ross County, Hamilton’s..

Edited September 12, 2020 by Jamsie

[Pompey Repatriated]

27 minutes ago, piffer said:

Bizarre listening to Dyer then the rest of the managers in the league. They were all talking about winning games and the importance of three points. Dyer is happy with the performance

it's like the gravity of losing points is completely missed on him and same as lot of fans, keep doing the same and it'll all come good. Hopefully it does in the next 4 games and we get similar to United game.

[Thebigguy68]

5 hours ago, Big sexy said:

If thats the case get brophy sold .its not as if hes prolific .

Think that ship may now have sailed. Worth trying to get something by moving him on but his performances level has been largely poor for a while now. Should have been sold summer after ssc left. That penalty against rangers and first Scotland cap. Still 18 months on contract at the time. Likely to stumble through to January till pre contract offer. But his next club won’t be Leeds anymore. In danger of wasting his potential.

[Angelo's Ashes]

32 minutes ago, Thebigguy68 said:

Think that ship may now have sailed. Worth trying to get something by moving him on but his performances level has been largely poor for a while now. Should have been sold summer after ssc left. That penalty against rangers and first Scotland cap. Still 18 months on contract at the time. Likely to stumble through to January till pre contract offer. But his next club won’t be Leeds anymore. In danger of wasting his potential.

In order to sell a player, another club has to be interested. It's not a unilateral decision on Killie's part.

We've got no idea whether Leeds or anyone else made an enquiry about him. 

[Dieter's Heeder]

1 hour ago, Gaz of the 20/20 said:

this whole narrative of playing well and being unlucky.... if you say something enough then people believe it, which has happened with a lot of our fans and also the chairman by look of things. 

This forum is only a snippet of our support and from all of the lads that go on our bus and never miss a game, i think there is 1, maybe 2 out of 50ish that think Dyer is the right man for the job. 

All the excuses about the games being too hard, the refs being baddies, the players making mistakes etc.... have been used up now. The next few games need to be won and even then i know many have seen enough that Dyer is not the man to take us forward. 

So even if he does start winning games, he's still not good enough cause your bus thinks so. He really is on a hiding to nothing. 

[RayD]

Aberdeen are a strong side, very clinical and very well drilled, they will be 4th at worst this season. 
They've scored 5 goals in 5 games and won 4 of them.

I can't see the top 4 changing from what it is now, so that leaves 8 teams looking at two remaining spots in top 6.

If we're to be one of those 2, we need a minimum of 8 points from next 4 games starting with any kind of win against the masters of frustration that are Accies.

[piffer]

8 minutes ago, Dieter's Heeder said:

So even if he does start winning games, he's still not good enough cause your bus thinks so. He really is on a hiding to nothing. 

If he starts to win games people’s opinions will change. I dont think he’s the man for the job. If he wins the next few I’ll be prepared to give him more time. Until that point he has to be judged on what is being served up. He can’t take the praise for beating a rangers or drawing with Celtic and be immune from criticism because we lost to Aberdeen. 

[Boabkfc19]

See these clowns saying aberdeen are worse than us to watch, wtf games have yous been watchin... Aberdeen prob should have scored more today.. They have 5 wins in a row. They have a manager thats been long term, half the folk on here are calling for our managers head... Folk need to take their glasses off at times man.. We didmt play terrible but didnt do eonugh to get much from the game... Dons are miles ahead of us.. End of...

[DuncD]

5 hours ago, Bbk said:

Very fine margins in some of our defeats so far and with a little more luck we could possibly have had a few more points though it is worrying that losing could become  a hard  habit  to break let's hope  not. 

 

Luck doesn’t exist. We weren’t good enough to take points. Simple 

[mitch14]

7 hours ago, Gaz of the 20/20 said:

This forum is only a snippet of our support and from all of the lads that go on our bus and never miss a game, i think there is 1, maybe 2 out of 50ish that think Dyer is the right man for the job.  

I've doubts about Dyer being the right man for the job, but on this point I've found the opposite. I find this forum attracts the most negativity. Plenty fans of the view we are playing well  enough and can see the positives. That's the view from the various football podcasts I listen to as well form a variety of people who aren't Killie fans. 

Not saying it's right or wrong, but this place can attract the most kneejerk stuff for sure. Chat about a relegation fight from some when we are a win away from 5th being a good example. 

What I find odd in a lot of posts (not the one I've quoted I should add) is this assumed division between happy clappers and realists. I don't think anyone is really disagreeing. Some of us think the performances will turn to results. Some don't. Everyone agrees that if there aren't wins in the next run of games there should be changes. 

I'm not necessarily confidently predicting we will turn it round, but I've seen bad Killie teams and I dont think this is a bad Killie team.

Folk are right to criticise this, it's absolutely fair, but I do think the run of games is a factor. More so now when you see we've played six of the top seven. Part of that is that we've not been able to get momentum going.

I tend to think clubs should change things earlier than they do if it's clear a manager isn't working but I feel different around it based on what I've seen. I'd give Dyer a full round of fixtures, after which we could be in a much better looking position. Or one in which the decision will be easy to make. 

[jesper]

9 hours ago, piffer said:

Bizarre listening to Dyer then the rest of the managers in the league. They were all talking about winning games and the importance of three points. Dyer is happy with the performance

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but we could have seen this trend emerging.

Pre-season, in all the interviews I saw or read, Dyer said things like "our first priority is to avoid relegation".

No... No!  A year after our two most successful top flight seasons, our priority should not be to avoid relegation! 

Now we're just seeing a continuation of that mindset in post-match interviews... It's demoralising for fans to hear we have no ambition beyond a relegation fight, but if the players are going into games think that's what we're playing for then that's where we're heading... 

And we shouldn't be! Bar a bit of cover needed in some positions, we have a very able squad. 

[Merk]

15 hours ago, Ngonge88 said:

Doesnt save it but Roger's is brilliant for that there. 

Glad you said it, when you see the replay behind the goals you see how good he was coming out and making himself big.

[Gaz of the 20/20]

1 hour ago, mitch14 said:

 I'd give Dyer a full round of fixtures, after which we could be in a much better looking position. Or one in which the decision will be easy to make. 

We are pretty much two-thirds of the way through the first round of fixtures anyway so can't disagree with that too much, however it really depends how they go. Getting beaten by Hamilton would be a bit of a catastrophe. 

How far we have fallen in the past 18 months is pretty depressing.

[CB]

7 minutes ago, jesper said:

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but we could have seen this trend emerging.

Pre-season, in all the interviews I saw or read, Dyer said things like "our first priority is to avoid relegation".

No... No!  A year after our two most successful top flight seasons, our priority should not be to avoid relegation! 

Now we're just seeing a continuation of that mindset in post-match interviews... It's demoralising for fans to hear we have no ambition beyond a relegation fight, but if the players are going into games think that's what we're playing for then that's where we're heading... 

And we shouldn't be! Bar a bit of cover needed in some positions, we have a very able squad. 

Even in our 'two most successful top flight seasons' our first priority was to avoid the drop, then mid table, then top six, then top 5 etc. Small achievable goals. 

[historyman]

1 hour ago, mitch14 said:

I've doubts about Dyer being the right man for the job, but on this point I've found the opposite. I find this forum attracts the most negativity. Plenty fans of the view we are playing well  enough and can see the positives. That's the view from the various football podcasts I listen to as well form a variety of people who aren't Killie fans. 

Not saying it's right or wrong, but this place can attract the most kneejerk stuff for sure. Chat about a relegation fight from some when we are a win away from 5th being a good example. 

What I find odd in a lot of posts (not the one I've quoted I should add) is this assumed division between happy clappers and realists. I don't think anyone is really disagreeing. Some of us think the performances will turn to results. Some don't. Everyone agrees that if there aren't wins in the next run of games there should be changes. 

I'm not necessarily confidently predicting we will turn it round, but I've seen bad Killie teams and I dont think this is a bad Killie team.

Folk are right to criticise this, it's absolutely fair, but I do think the run of games is a factor. More so now when you see we've played six of the top seven. Part of that is that we've not been able to get momentum going.

I tend to think clubs should change things earlier than they do if it's clear a manager isn't working but I feel different around it based on what I've seen. I'd give Dyer a full round of fixtures, after which we could be in a much better looking position. Or one in which the decision will be easy to make. 

If we don’t get at least 7 or 8 points in the next four games then he should have the decency to resign. 
Four wins in his time as manager simply isn’t good enough. 
If it’s not a bad Killie team they seem to have an ability to consistently get bad results. I think that a weak and inexperienced manager is a big part of that. 

Edited September 13, 2020 by historyman

[mitch14]

8 minutes ago, Gaz of the 20/20 said:

How far we have fallen in the past 18 months is pretty depressing.

If we come out of the next run of games  in fifth or sixth it will look brighter. 

It was always going to be really tough without Taylor, Stewart, Jones, the O'Donnell we had under Clarke. They are all players it's almost impossible to replace on our budget. 

Not making good signings last summer has really cost us, that's still what annoys me most. We had the opportunity to lock in a few good players with sell on value and completely f**ked it. 

Something niggling at me is Haunstrup and MacGowan. It's going to be really annoying if they come into the team and are clearly better than what we have stuck with up to now. I hope it's not a Power under McCulloch situation. 

[Scouser2]

21 minutes ago, CB said:

Even in our 'two most successful top flight seasons' our first priority was to avoid the drop, then mid table, then top six, then top 5 etc. Small achievable goals. 

Also when Manager at out club in nearly every interview SC used the line about our first job was to avoid relegation .....even after a run of wins he still came out and used that line ....

too much sometimes is made of what comments a Manager might make in interviews, what is more important is what they say to the players and the results achieved on the pitch 
For me the next run of 4 league games could well define the way the rest of our season will go , or what decisions need to be made ,
In terms of squads and quality there is.not that much between 7 or 8 teams in this league , often games won by a one goal margin ......what any club needs is go on a run of consecutive positive results (mostly wins)  , we badly need that in next few games 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Scouser2

[skygod]

21 minutes ago, CB said:

Even in our 'two most successful top flight seasons' our first priority was to avoid the drop, then mid table, then top six, then top 5 etc. Small achievable goals. 

Correct, except that - in the interview I saw - he didn’t say it was our first priority. 

He said his only target was to remain in the division. 

He was given the opportunity to expand on his ambition but restated that’s it was just to stay in the division. 

He didn’t even say it was because of the exceptional circumstances this season, which I would have had sympathy with.

He’s not the most articulate, but he should be judged on results and not his communication skills.
 

[jesper]

26 minutes ago, CB said:

Even in our 'two most successful top flight seasons' our first priority was to avoid the drop, then mid table, then top six, then top 5 etc. Small achievable goals. 

Not sure why you've put that in inverted commas, is it in question? 

I don't recall the second season being one where our intention was to avoid relegation. The first, yes, because Clarke was taking us over when we were mere points from the relegation zone. The second? I don't think our first objective was to avoid relegation, and if it was, I don't recall Clarke repeating that often - as mentioned above, it's demoralising and he clearly knew how to motivate players and fans. 

[jesper]

14 minutes ago, skygod said:

Correct, except that - in the interview I saw - he didn’t say it was our first priority. 

He said his only target was to remain in the division. 

He was given the opportunity to expand on his ambition but restated that’s it was just to stay in the division. 

He didn’t even say it was because of the exceptional circumstances this season, which I would have had sympathy with.

He’s not the most articulate, but he should be judged on results and not his communication skills.
 

Agreed with this until the last paragraph. 

As a manager, his communication skills are arguably one the most important parts to get right - it's how he leads, motivates and conveys his tactics to the team. He's not very good at that with the media, and he wasn't great at speaking at the AGM. What you say, and how you say it, is important. 

I want Dyer to keep his job btw, and I want him to be successful...but a bit more positivity isn't going to hurt. 

[historyman]

21 minutes ago, skygod said:

Correct, except that - in the interview I saw - he didn’t say it was our first priority. 

He said his only target was to remain in the division. 

He was given the opportunity to expand on his ambition but restated that’s it was just to stay in the division. 

He didn’t even say it was because of the exceptional circumstances this season, which I would have had sympathy with.

He’s not the most articulate, but he should be judged on results and not his communication skills.
 

If he is being judged on results then he’d better start to improve pretty quickly as patience is wearing thin. The next four games are critical - if he gets the opportunity of being in charge for all of them. 

[James K Polk]

1 hour ago, jesper said:

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but we could have seen this trend emerging.

Pre-season, in all the interviews I saw or read, Dyer said things like "our first priority is to avoid relegation".

No... No!  A year after our two most successful top flight seasons, our priority should not be to avoid relegation! 

Now we're just seeing a continuation of that mindset in post-match interviews... It's demoralising for fans to hear we have no ambition beyond a relegation fight, but if the players are going into games think that's what we're playing for then that's where we're heading... 

And we shouldn't be! Bar a bit of cover needed in some positions, we have a very able squad. 

He is just using the same line Steve Clarke used when he was managing us. Think it’s all related to the goals being one match a time, which was another SSC mantra.

For instance this was SSC from about midway through the full season, quote is taken from an interview in the Herald.

 “The target for us was to stay in the division and we have done that,” he said with a face you would never dare sit across a poke table from. “The secondary objective was to get back-to-back top-six finishes and that is the next target. Once we secure that, then we will look at any other possible outcomes, but we have to achieve that first.“