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Aberdeen match, Fred


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2 hours ago, mitch14 said:

I've doubts about Dyer being the right man for the job, but on this point I've found the opposite. I find this forum attracts the most negativity. Plenty fans of the view we are playing well  enough and can see the positives. That's the view from the various football podcasts I listen to as well form a variety of people who aren't Killie fans. 

Not saying it's right or wrong, but this place can attract the most kneejerk stuff for sure. Chat about a relegation fight from some when we are a win away from 5th being a good example. 

What I find odd in a lot of posts (not the one I've quoted I should add) is this assumed division between happy clappers and realists. I don't think anyone is really disagreeing. Some of us think the performances will turn to results. Some don't. Everyone agrees that if there aren't wins in the next run of games there should be changes. 

I'm not necessarily confidently predicting we will turn it round, but I've seen bad Killie teams and I dont think this is a bad Killie team.

Folk are right to criticise this, it's absolutely fair, but I do think the run of games is a factor. More so now when you see we've played six of the top seven. Part of that is that we've not been able to get momentum going.

I tend to think clubs should change things earlier than they do if it's clear a manager isn't working but I feel different around it based on what I've seen. I'd give Dyer a full round of fixtures, after which we could be in a much better looking position. Or one in which the decision will be easy to make. 

Good post. This is a good summary. The only thing to add is that almost everyone - after a handful of games - already accepts that we can’t be in the top 4. A team that for nearly 2 seasons was the most consistent and successful in the league Has already passed on Europe after 7 games. Just over a season after finishing third and it’s already at the “with a decent run of fixtures we could be up with the st mirren and ross county’s”. It’s true and I feel the same as you. But it’s a lot sad that our expectations has shifted soooooo much in a little over 12 months. A failure of leadership.

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7 minutes ago, James K Polk said:

He is just using the same line Steve Clarke used when he was managing us. Think it’s all related to the goals being one match a time, which was another SSC mantra.

For instance this was SSC from about midway through the full season, quote is taken from an interview in the Herald.

 “The target for us was to stay in the division and we have done that,” he said with a face you would never dare sit across a poke table from. “The secondary objective was to get back-to-back top-six finishes and that is the next target. Once we secure that, then we will look at any other possible outcomes, but we have to achieve that first.“

It’s not what you say sometimes it the way that you say it. We all bristled with confidence every time ssc opened his mouth. We heard what he said but knew what he meant. In a similar way to some of the great Scottish managers of the past. Clarke WAS killie for a couple of years. He raised up everything and everybody around him. The players, Dyer, the board. Without him everybody has lost the shine. The club is a top 12 club. No less, no more.

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1 hour ago, skygod said:

Correct, except that - in the interview I saw - he didn’t say it was our first priority. 

He said his only target was to remain in the division. 

He was given the opportunity to expand on his ambition but restated that’s it was just to stay in the division. 

He didn’t even say it was because of the exceptional circumstances this season, which I would have had sympathy with.

He’s not the most articulate, but he should be judged on results and not his communication skills.
 

Why do you say he isn’t articulate? Sounds very concise to me in his interviews with good grammar. I think some tend to confuse his general demeanour with his actual knowledge of the game, his determination and ability to get a message across......his latest post match made it very clear that if players aren’t at it, they’ll be dropped or subbed.....I agree he should be judged on results and ultimately league position.

Edited by Loudoun Killie
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1 hour ago, CB said:

Even in our 'two most successful top flight seasons' our first priority was to avoid the drop, then mid table, then top six, then top 5 etc. Small achievable goals. 

That's bolloxs, he may have said publicly the priority was to avoid relegation bit we all no that he and the squad were aiming/targeting much higher goals.

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The next 4 games are very important and you could say critical. Dyer can’t get the team to string a series of positive results together. We can’t string a run of no score draws as we can’t keep clean sheets. The performances aren’t bad but they aren’t yielding results. 
 

We now have a series of games against teams in the lower part of the league and need a series of positive results not a couple of wins or draws and a couple of defeats as that’s just more of the same. 
 

Hamilton will be a difficult test. They beat Livi away. St Mirren away will be a difficult test as until yesterday they seemed a solid outfit. Motherwell have a win under their belts and will be looking to build on that. I don’t think they are as bad as results suggest. They could be thinking the same about us. Livi will also be a difficult game. 
 

I didn’t expect us to get anything from Aberdeen away. I think they are better this year than in previous years. The bad results are Ross County away and St Johnstone at home.

The performances aren’t as bad as under Locke , Johnston or McCulloch. It’s time to convert this OK performances into points with consistency. 

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17 minutes ago, Loudoun Killie said:

Why do you say he isn’t articulate?

I didn’t say was inarticulate - I said he wasn’t the most articulate. 

I find his interviews uninteresting - he’s not a fluent speaker but it’s not especially important. 

To answer Jesper’s point that communication with the players is arguably the most important part of his job - of course it is, but we aren’t privy to that. 

Different managers have different communication styles with their players and, whatever they are, they will ultimately be reflected in results and that is why they should be the benchmark, and not communication style per se. 

 

Edited by skygod
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54 minutes ago, Thebigguy68 said:

It’s not what you say sometimes it the way that you say it. We all bristled with confidence every time ssc opened his mouth. We heard what he said but knew what he meant. In a similar way to some of the great Scottish managers of the past. Clarke WAS killie for a couple of years. He raised up everything and everybody around him. The players, Dyer, the board. Without him everybody has lost the shine. The club is a top 12 club. No less, no more.

Agreed

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24 minutes ago, skygod said:

I didn’t say was inarticulate - I said he wasn’t the most articulate. 

I find his interviews uninteresting - he’s not a fluent speaker but it’s not especially important. 

To answer Jesper’s point that communication with the players is arguably the most important part of his job - of course it is, but we aren’t privy to that. 

Different managers have different communication styles with their players and, whatever they are, they will ultimately be reflected in results and that is why they should be the benchmark, and not communication style per se. 

 

No better or worse than McInnes on Red TV before the game. Even gave a snide suggestion that fans don't actually have to stick to the no shouting, no singing rules. 

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1 hour ago, Thebigguy68 said:

It’s not what you say sometimes it the way that you say it. We all bristled with confidence every time ssc opened his mouth. We heard what he said but knew what he meant. In a similar way to some of the great Scottish managers of the past. Clarke WAS killie for a couple of years. He raised up everything and everybody around him. The players, Dyer, the board. Without him everybody has lost the shine. The club is a top 12 club. No less, no more.

Even at such an early stage in the season I am of the opinion that the top 4 are more or less settled. The Old Firm for obvious reasons, Aberdeen and probably Hibs. The rest will continue to take points off each other throughout the season. I don’t see much quality outwith the top 4. No team stands out. It’s going to be a long hard slog for us, and everyone else. I don’t see the quality in any of the other teams that will allow them to put an unbeaten run together.Relegation will go to the wire. Hopefully we’ll do enough to avoid the dog fight.

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4 minutes ago, Doonhamer said:

Even at such an early stage in the season I am of the opinion that the top 4 are more or less settled. The Old Firm for obvious reasons, Aberdeen and probably Hibs. The rest will continue to take points off each other throughout the season. I don’t see much quality outwith the top 4. 

Its actually been quite odd in the last two or three seasons that the better financed teams haven't been able to get things together - which was probably a factor in us getting into third. 

The signings Hibs and Aberdeen have made this season have got them more where you'd expect those teams to be. Hearts will be similar when they come back up with their backers. I'd have happily had every player that came off the bench for Aberdeen yesterday. 

Wonder if covid is going to highlight the differences in money even more. 

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3 minutes ago, mitch14 said:

Its actually been quite odd in the last two or three seasons that the better financed teams haven't been able to get things together - which was probably a factor in us getting into third. 

The signings Hibs and Aberdeen have made this season have got them more where you'd expect those teams to be. Hearts will be similar when they come back up with their backers. I'd have happily had every player that came off the bench for Aberdeen yesterday. 

Wonder if covid is going to highlight the differences in money even more. 

I think it was a mix of an opportunity for us in recent seasons to kick on due to other teams who would normally be above us hitting a trough and the way we gelled and delivered strongly as a unit. We had a period when we never gave in and were extremely hard to beat. You couldn’t grind us down. It was fantastic to watch and be part of that experience.Unfortunately Aberdeen and Hibs look like they’ve made some decent signings to complement their squads. We’ll never compete financially with them. It will have to be work ethic, bloody mindedness and dare I say it, an element of luck. I’m still pretty optimistic about us finishing in the top 6. However I can’t see us putting any sort of unbeaten run together. I know the next few games are really important, but thinking we will win most of them is being highly optimistic.

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Wonder what the fans of other sides round about us in the league are saying about their position & manager? Are we alone in being concerned about a relegation fight, or is every other team in that 8 facing similar worries? 
 

Just looking outside the prism we as Killie fans view things, I’d guess most clubs fans are grumbling about form, tactics, media sound bites, player selections, etc.

We’ll have a solid idea of our prospects after the next four games, but should be targeting 12 pts, not 7 or 8 as some have suggested. All are winnable.  

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3 minutes ago, casual observer said:

Wonder what the fans of other sides round about us in the league are saying about their position & manager? Are we alone in being concerned about a relegation fight, or is every other team in that 8 facing similar worries? 
 

Just looking outside the prism we as Killie fans view things, I’d guess most clubs fans are grumbling about form, tactics, media sound bites, player selections, etc.

We’ll have a solid idea of our prospects after the next four games, but should be targeting 12 pts, not 7 or 8 as some have suggested. All are winnable.  

I agree with your comment regarding the other teams around us. I have friends that are Motherwell and St Mirren fans. They’re as pessimistic as us at the moment and think it will be a long hard season. As I said luck may play an important part in the season. Something St Mirren aren’t having at the moment.

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13 hours ago, Gaz of the 20/20 said:

this whole narrative of playing well and being unlucky.... if you say something enough then people believe it, which has happened with a lot of our fans and also the chairman by look of things. 

This forum is only a snippet of our support and from all of the lads that go on our bus and never miss a game, i think there is 1, maybe 2 out of 50ish that think Dyer is the right man for the job. 

All the excuses about the games being too hard, the refs being baddies, the players making mistakes etc.... have been used up now. The next few games need to be won and even then i know many have seen enough that Dyer is not the man to take us forward. 

That makes absolutely no sense. Win the next three games but it still won’t be enough? What else can he do then? 
 

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14 minutes ago, Killieboykfc said:

That makes absolutely no sense. Win the next three games but it still won’t be enough? What else can he do then? 
 

Winning the next 3 games will buy him more time. But hes not the right man to take us forward, he was never the correct appointment. If he wasnt the right man when Clarke left then why was he a few months later after a disastrous interim spell?

If he turns it around and has us 5th or above at the end of the season I'll admit i am wrong.  

 

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For all that many of us dont really like mcinnes he has undoubtedly got an indian sign over us with all of his teams remember him bringing Bristol city for a pre season friendly and beating us and his record against us as Aberdeen  manager is quite impressive. Having said that we were unlucky yesterday to not at least get a point and if we get said luck in our next few games we should be in a better place league wise.

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Just now, Gaz of the 20/20 said:

Winning the next 3 games will buy him more time. But hes not the right man to take us forward, he was never the correct appointment. If he wasnt the right man when Clarke left then why was he a few months later after a disastrous interim spell?

If he turns it around and has us 5th or above at the end of the season I'll admit i am wrong.  

 

Think you may find it was a combination of not having loads of cash to secure a 'marque ' type manager and then of course covid 19 meaning having to cut our cloth to suit and like so many other people saying the appointment was wrong you dont give us a name to back up who you would like to replace him?

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4 minutes ago, Bbk said:

Think you may find it was a combination of not having loads of cash to secure a 'marque ' type manager and then of course covid 19 meaning having to cut our cloth to suit and like so many other people saying the appointment was wrong you dont give us a name to back up who you would like to replace him?

Are Kilmarnock the only team who had to deal with Covid 19? Deary me the excuses are getting more desperate by the week. I forgot it only hit Ayrshire. 

Its not my job to pick a new manager, indeed nobody even knows what calibre of manager would all apply as we didnt go through a proper recruitment process. I would be amazed if we would have had no applicants with more experience and a better track record than Alex Dyer. 

If he hadn't been Steve Clarkes assistant he would have been nowhere near the managers job. We are an established Premier League and in my opinion shouldn't be a place for rookie managers to learn their trade, it didn't work with Locke or McCulloch and its not working here. You can't underestimate the importance of having a good manager, Billy Bowie said as much, after looking at where Steve Clarke took us.

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7 minutes ago, Malkmus said:

I'm sorry but how were we unlucky not to get a point, goals column reads 0. We had some periods of possession is all.

I don't think we were unlucky, but Kabamba had a free header he put wide, McKenzie had a great chance that was goal bound and a defender stuck a leg out, Kiltie got a good save out of Lewis and we had a really good chance cleared at the back post with Waters ready to score. There were chances and opportunities, we just didn't take them. 

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1 hour ago, mitch14 said:

I don't think we were unlucky, but Kabamba had a free header he put wide, McKenzie had a great chance that was goal bound and a defender stuck a leg out, Kiltie got a good save out of Lewis and we had a really good chance cleared at the back post with Waters ready to score. There were chances and opportunities, we just didn't take them. 

I honestly thought Rory's shot was going wide.

Kabamba header was never going to trouble Lewis even if it was on target .

Kiltie attempt was a good effort and the clearance with Waters coming in at the back post were it really. 

Dicker had an excellent chance to shoot from the edge of the box but shat it ,turned his back to goal and passed it.

Edited by stewarty66
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A real problem area for us is our LB and RB positions. Goals keep coming from players being outpaced or allowed to run into the box way too easily. Why sign 2 boys who should easily be in the starting lineup and hardly give them a sniff so far. Is it a case of the managers son getting played week in week out, I mean come on the guy isn't good enough for this league, not trying to be too harsh on him. Waters has been decent but really lacks and strength and threat in the air. I don't understand how dyer isnt seeing this and why he isnt changing it.

Edited by BluenwhiteARMY
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1 hour ago, Gaz of the 20/20 said:

Are Kilmarnock the only team who had to deal with Covid 19? Deary me the excuses are getting more desperate by the week. I forgot it only hit Ayrshire. 

Its not my job to pick a new manager, indeed nobody even knows what calibre of manager would all apply as we didnt go through a proper recruitment process. I would be amazed if we would have had no applicants with more experience and a better track record than Alex Dyer. 

If he hadn't been Steve Clarkes assistant he would have been nowhere near the managers job. We are an established Premier League and in my opinion shouldn't be a place for rookie managers to learn their trade, it didn't work with Locke or McCulloch and its not working here. You can't underestimate the importance of having a good manager, Billy Bowie said as much, after looking at where Steve Clarke took us.

So you don’t like the manager and want him to be replaced. however, you don’t have any names or suggestions for a replacement? What happens if you don’t like the next appointment? Have you ever been described as a boo boy?

im not dyers biggest fan but think he deserves time at the start of the season.

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10 minutes ago, stewarty66 said:

I honestly thought Rory's shot was going wide.

Kabamba header was never going to trouble Lewis even if it was on target .

Kiltie attempt was a good effort and the clearance with Waters coming in at the back post were it really. 

Dicker had an excellent chance to shoot from the edge of the box but shat it ,turned his back to goal and passed it.

Agree with you. McKenna made more of McKenzies chance than Rory did. Kilties effort was the only one that really troubled them. The waters chance he was probably the last person we wanted on the end of that. Lack of height and no aggression to get it. He’s a LB though

The Dicker one I could have punched the TV. How many times is it said you’ve got to buy a ticket to win the raffle. Get the laces through it. Worst case scenario he misses and we don’t score. That happened anyway. Best case it goes in or we get a corner. 

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