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Aberdeen match, Fred


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4 hours ago, Loudoun Killie said:

Why do you say he isn’t articulate? Sounds very concise to me in his interviews with good grammar. I think some tend to confuse his general demeanour with his actual knowledge of the game, his determination and ability to get a message across......his latest post match made it very clear that if players aren’t at it, they’ll be dropped or subbed.....I agree he should be judged on results and ultimately league position.

Agreed. He's no AJ thankfully

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I share the view that we have played reasonably over the opening few games but apart from the Dundee Utd game, have had little run of the ball. Having said all that, we must see results over the next 4 games which pitch us against other teams who may consider themselves in the same boat.

Burkey, Dicker, Brophy and surprisingly Findlay are all somewhat short of what's expected, so it may be time to introduce some fresh names to compete. Yesterday we were really pressurising Aberdeen in the second half and looking good for an equaliser but Stuart Findlay passed a horrible square ball just outside their penalty box which was intercepted, leading to a sharp pacy Aberdeen attack that almost cost us another goal.  We lost momentum at that moment and never really recovered. Stuart's fitness may be the issue but if so he needs to be rested until it's sorted.

Pinnock causes trouble when he comes on and why McKenzie is so often overlooked baffles me. Where is young Connell these days? 

Let's freshen things up and move on from relying on Steve's historic stalwarts.

 

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55 minutes ago, Twonky65 said:

So you don’t like the manager and want him to be replaced. 

Correct

 

1 hour ago, Twonky65 said:

 however, you don’t have any names or suggestions for a replacement? 

I'm just a punter, it's not my job to pick a new manager and i dont know who would be interested. However i can guarantee that we would get candidates with more managerial experience than 1 month in the english non-league.

55 minutes ago, Twonky65 said:

What happens if you don’t like the next appointment? 

If he has less than a 20% win record after 22 games then i would think its a bad appointment. However its unlikely we could make the same mistake and have two successive managers who have the worst records in our history. We should strive to be as good as possible, not accept poor results as we don't think we deserve better.

55 minutes ago, Twonky65 said:

Have you ever been described as a boo boy?

no, never. 

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3 hours ago, Gaz of the 20/20 said:

Winning the next 3 games will buy him more time. But hes not the right man to take us forward, he was never the correct appointment. If he wasnt the right man when Clarke left then why was he a few months later after a disastrous interim spell?

If he turns it around and has us 5th or above at the end of the season I'll admit i am wrong.  

 

Anywhere in the top 6 would be a great season. 

In terms of budget etc most teams outside the top 4 are evenly matched so I reckon finishing the best of the rest would be a great season. Performances mean I’m not as worried as some about Dyer but after the next 4 or 5 games we need the results to match the performances otherwise Dyer could be away. 

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1 hour ago, Twonky65 said:

you don’t have any names or suggestions for a replacement? 

Following your message and having had a 2 minute look at out of work managers who have a better record than Dyer (doesn't narrow it down too much), the following names popped up:-

Lee Johnson, Tommy Wright, Steve Kean, Danny Wilson, Billy Davies, even John Hughes has a decent track record. 

I'm not saying any of these would be my first choice but I'd have more confidence in any of the above than I do the current management team. If thats a 2 minute google search from a punter then I'm sure a football club board could compile a better list within a couple of weeks.

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1 hour ago, Twonky65 said:

So you don’t like the manager and want him to be replaced. however, you don’t have any names or suggestions for a replacement? What happens if you don’t like the next appointment? Have you ever been described as a boo boy?

im not dyers biggest fan but think he deserves time at the start of the season.

How much more time does he deserve then? 
If any fan thinks that less than 7pts from the next four games is acceptable given where we are currently sitting then clearly their expectations are limited to avoiding relegation and nothing more. 
A half decent team would be targeting the top six this season. 

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6 hours ago, WWWWnnnnnn! said:

Dyer is too soft and needs to demand more from his team, no manager should be happy with a losd. His record is abysmal. The next 4 games are pivotal. 

I get that almost every manager tries to put a positive slant on a defeat, but I don’t see any desire to gamble to get the wins. It’s all too safe, all too conservative. Take yesterday for example 1-0 down, 89 minutes on the clock and another injury to a defender. No harm to the lad, but what did bringing Rossi on achieve? Does anyone think SC would’ve made the same choice? I think most of us would’ve expected him to put another forward on or added more width. We’d have gambled with Findlay and Millen, with Dicker offering some protection as we chased a point. Instead we settled for a 1-0 loss. It’s not good enough. 

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39 minutes ago, Gaz of the 20/20 said:

If he has less than a 20% win record after 22 games then i would think its a bad appointment. However its unlikely we could make the same mistake and have two successive managers who have the worst records in our history.

Worst in our history?.....

Eddie Morrison....4 wins in his first 22 games (in the 1st Division)  (18% win rate)

Kenny Shiels .........3 wins in his first 22  games  (14% win rate)

Gary Locke.............4 wins in his first  22  games  (18% win rate)

AA won 7 games in the 20 he had.  (35%)

Out of 22 games AD has had, yes, won 5 (including Queens Park in the Cup) which is a win rate of 23%.......AA obviously winning 2 games 'more' than AD so far.(one of those being CQ away)

 

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17 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

Worst in our history?.....

Eddie Morrison....4 wins in his first 22 games (in the 1st Division)  (18% win rate)

Kenny Shiels .........3 wins in his first 22  games  (14% win rate)

Gary Locke.............4 wins in his first  22  games  (18% win rate)

AA won 7 games in the 20 he had.  (35%)

Out of 22 games AD has had, yes, won 5 (including Queens Park in the Cup) which is a win rate of 23%.......AA obviously winning 2 games 'more' than AD so far.(one of those being CQ away)

 

Since when was a managerial % win rate at a club been whittled down to where they've all played the same number of games? That's not how it works. However i presume you know that and are trying to be clever. 

Eddie Morrison : 34%

Gary Locke: 25% 

Kenny Shiels: 28% 

Angelo Alessio: 36% 

Alex Dyer: 22% 

My mistake being i thought it was below 20%, its still below all the managers you listed, and indeed any other manager in our history. With wins in the next few games this would of course improve, or without wins it would get worse.

Edited by Gaz of the 20/20
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The point is surely though that after the same number of games played, AD's % is not below the others mentioned. I don't remember calls for Kenny Shiels to be bagged after the same number of games (might be wrong) which AD has had (and also his managerial previous experience was all in the Northern Irish League-some at lower levels of that). Perhaps the difference is, that when KS was appointed, most folk were quite happy with that, after all, he had been Mixu's assistant. When AD was appointed by contrast it followed confusion over what had happened with AA, and a lot of folk weren't happy with the process (or the appointment from the start)

Of course, if you take the entire tenures of Morrison, Shiels, Locke etc, they will be above 22%. As you say the next 4 games will be telling, if he wins them all, his win % would be on 31......Don't think many folk are disagreeing that results have to improve in these next 4.

Edited by Jedi2
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Ask yourself if Clarke had started so badly and had two windows to address a squad he had inherited but had a win % of 22%, would we as a fanbase be happy? The current manager inherited a squad and has had two windows to address any weakness he seen fit, yet is riding on the goodwill built by a previous manager and he himself has no record to fall back on as sign that he can turn this around.

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43 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

Worst in our history?.....

Eddie Morrison....4 wins in his first 22 games (in the 1st Division)  (18% win rate)

Kenny Shiels .........3 wins in his first 22  games  (14% win rate)

Gary Locke.............4 wins in his first  22  games  (18% win rate)

AA won 7 games in the 20 he had.  (35%)

Out of 22 games AD has had, yes, won 5 (including Queens Park in the Cup) which is a win rate of 23%.......AA obviously winning 2 games 'more' than AD so far.(one of those being CQ away)

 

There is no way Eddie Morrison only won 4 games in his first 22 games. 

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 I don't think we'll ever beat Aberdeen again. I'm just resigned to that. We have only managed it once and that was under Sir Steve when they had a man sent off after about 10 mins, unjustly at that. 

I don't think anyone deep down expected us to go to  Aberdeen and win. Is the definition of madness doing the same thing and expecting different results. Aberdeen are just our bogey team. 

Despite the fact that McInnes annoys us he is a good manager. Players for some unknown reason want to play for him and unless your name is Greg Stewart gets the best out them. Aberdeen had won their last 4 games and even beaten the mighty Hibs at Easter Road. Going a goal behind yesterday was the worst thing that could have happened to us as from that point Aberdeen do what Aberdeen do and marked us out the game. There was no space in around the box so it was very difficult to get any meaningful shots on goal but we managed a bit. I thought we actually played quite well but because of the way we played with 2 up top and choosing to have in the words of Neil McCann 'a real good go' we were at times exposed at the back or out of position defensively. This was the case for the goal, we lost possession then we weren't in the right positions and McCrorie had enough time for an unchallenged finish. Great finish though it has to be said. Possibly we should have been a bit more pragmatic but then again if we had lost 1-0 but barely been out our half then it would have been a lot worse. 

Now is the time to judge Alex Dyer. We've played Rangers, Celtic, Hibs and Aberdeen on this 1st round of fixtures. We have taken 1 point from probably the top four. We play Hamilton, St Mirren, Motherwell and Livingston before the next set of fixtures. How we do in these will determine where we are! 

Apart from the top four I've mentioned any one of bottom 8 could easily find themselves in trouble. 

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I don’t think comparing Dyer’s record against other managers means too much. 
All that matters is - is his record good enough? If some think 4 league wins so far is acceptable then they have low standards. 
As has been said, the next four games will be critical. If we don’t get decent enough results in those games then he has to go. 

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16 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

His first game was against Falkirk on Oct 13th 1984....

https://www.londonhearts.com/scores/a1980/kilmarnock1985.htm

I know- I was there and at a few other victories during his first 22 games.....

Well, after checking "Everygame", it turns out what I remember as "a few other victories" was in reality another five wins.:9:

But that gives him 6 wins out of 22...... 

Edited by DuncanEwart
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6 hours ago, Gaz of the 20/20 said:

Following your message and having had a 2 minute look at out of work managers who have a better record than Dyer (doesn't narrow it down too much), the following names popped up:-

Lee Johnson, Tommy Wright, Steve Kean, Danny Wilson, Billy Davies, even John Hughes has a decent track record. 

I'm not saying any of these would be my first choice but I'd have more confidence in any of the above than I do the current management team. If thats a 2 minute google search from a punter then I'm sure a football club board could compile a better list within a couple of weeks.

Who Danny Wilson?

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