skygod Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 I heard an interesting discussion on 5 Live on Monday night on this subject. The panel - no idea who they were - were saying that there used to be a stigma about it as not being good enough for your own first team but now players expect to spend time on loan, and many request to. In fact, they were saying that almost all the recent England squad had been out on loan at some point. It gives players new experiences - playing and life - and helps their development. Instead of having everything done for them, they have to find their way in a new environment. One of them - again, don’t know who - had spend time on loan in Scotland and was very enthusiastic about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prahakillie Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 The only part of the system I have a problem with is the loaning of players to teams in the same league (and then being unable to play against their parent club). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skygod Posted September 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 I think they mentioned that - it’s not on the iPlayer yet. It not ideal but, if a club wants a player to get experience at a certain level where they can easily monitor their performances, it makes some sense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, skygod said: It not ideal but, if a club wants a player to get experience at a certain level where they can easily monitor their performances, it makes some sense. Also allows the younger English players to recieve oibscene EPL wages, but get first team action. SPFL widely accepted as more technical, but not nearly as physical as League 2/1, so less chance of a younger player getting kicked off the park. ARe huge games in SPL too, just not every week, which might be what you'd want to develop a player. Maddison at Aberdeen or Longstaff at KIllie are prime examples. Were fairly good up here, but you wouldn't have called them £20m or £30m players, cos the technical standard is actually fairly good compared to what you'd get in England for SPL money! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumpweed Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, RAG said: Also allows the younger English players to recieve oibscene EPL wages, but get first team action. SPFL widely accepted as more technical, but not nearly as physical as League 2/1, so less chance of a younger player getting kicked off the park. ARe huge games in SPL too, just not every week, which might be what you'd want to develop a player. Maddison at Aberdeen or Longstaff at KIllie are prime examples. Were fairly good up here, but you wouldn't have called them £20m or £30m players, cos the technical standard is actually fairly good compared to what you'd get in England for SPL money! Agree with most of that but SPFL is more physical than both league 1 and League 2. A lot of the loan concerns are around player application. At the same time, not all clubs are willing to allow talent to leave the club with a loan percentage. An example is Everton wanted 100% of wages paid (6k per week) for Fraser Hornby last summer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 17 minutes ago, dumpweed said: Agree with most of that but SPFL is more physical than both league 1 and League 2. A lot of the loan concerns are around player application. At the same time, not all clubs are willing to allow talent to leave the club with a loan percentage. An example is Everton wanted 100% of wages paid (6k per week) for Fraser Hornby last summer. Maybe it's just my perception that lower league English teams look bigger and heavier than SPL sides! I should say, I have little to no interest in lower league English football as a disclaimer.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumpweed Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, RAG said: I should say, I have little to no interest in lower league English football as a disclaimer.. Neither do I half of the time. The players are generally heavier but the pace of the Scottish game accounts for a lot of the physicality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch14 Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 8 hours ago, skygod said: It gives players new experiences - playing and life - and helps their development. Instead of having everything done for them, they have to find their way in a new environment. This is why I've never understood why Rangers and Celtic are so kene on colts teams. Surely it's better to send players into an environment where staying in a league is a huge deal for a club, or where you can be part of a closely contested push for a title etc. You saw how much Ajer bought into what we were doing at Killie. Very noticeable that a lot of the proper fitba men on sportscene are very anti loan. Ian McColl in particular. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pompey Repatriated Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 Ian McColl isn't a proper anything. Unless you want to chuck some expletives in there 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skygod Posted September 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, RAG said: Maddison at Aberdeen or Longstaff at KIllie are prime examples. Were fairly good up here, but you wouldn't have called them £20m or £30m players.... That’s because they weren’t - they wouldn’t have been sent out on loan if they had been. Maddison had been signed for a couple of million from League One - you know, where all the kickers are! - not long before, and Longstaff hadn’t played a first team match. In other words, they were both raw, Maddison comparatively less so, and the loans made total sense for them. Even his loan at Killie didn’t transform Longstaff into a £30m player (which he probably isn’t at the moment) as he had a further season at Blackpool in League One which helped him again. The other side of the coin is Cal Roberts, who never showed much at Killie and is now in the National League. Edited September 16, 2020 by skygod 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker71 Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 38 minutes ago, mitch14 said: This is why I've never understood why Rangers and Celtic are so kene on colts teams. Surely it's better to send players into an environment where staying in a league is a huge deal for a club, or where you can be part of a closely contested push for a title etc. You saw how much Ajer bought into what we were doing at Killie. Very noticeable that a lot of the proper fitba men on sportscene are very anti loan. Ian McColl in particular. Its all "Look at us, we are the big guys here l we've even got our kids teams in the lower leagues" willy waving sort of pish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker71 Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 24 minutes ago, Pompey Exile said: Ian McColl isn't a proper anything. Unless you want to chuck some expletives in there disagree, the guy is a proper clueless loudmouth bellend. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenwick Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 heh if its good enough for an EPL club spurs to loan gareth bale previous world transfer record then why not loan players that would improve team 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 35 minutes ago, skygod said: That’s because they weren’t - they wouldn’t have been sent out on loan if they had been. Maddison had been signed for a couple of million from League One - you know, where all the kickers are! - not long before, and Longstaff hadn’t played a first team match. In other words, they were both raw, Maddison comparatively less so, and the loans made total sense for them. Even his loan at Killie didn’t transform Longstaff into a £30m player (which he probably isn’t at the moment) as he had a further season at Blackpool in League One which helped him again. The other side of the coin is Cal Roberts, who never showed much at Killie and is now in the National League. Maddison's been touted for the England team, Longstaff for Man United - although that's just paper or agent talk most probably! Don't think either looked like they'd that sort of potential in our league, although they were young, inexperienced and raw at the time. Not saying either were rubbish, but England are world champions at u17 and u20 level. Clearly they have improved, so the loan thing works for them, with the first team EPL standard being about World Super League level with the money involved. Woodman on the other hand, definitely looked like he was the real deal and a future international. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz of the 20/20 Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 On 9/16/2020 at 9:11 PM, Beaker71 said: Its all "Look at us, we are the big guys here l we've even got our kids teams in the lower leagues" willy waving sort of pish. 100% correct in my opinion, its nothing to do with developing their young players in League Two, its about another side for them to support and attempts at further oneupmanship against each other about who is most successful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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