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Covid chat (split from Brexit)


Beaker71

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On 11/25/2020 at 4:50 PM, gdevoy said:

Apologies for the infantile language I used which is not helpful. Not sure where it cones from, perhaps the thinly veiled contempt I perceived the Scots to be held in by many south of the border. But I really should not let my iown subconcious prejudice  be an excuse for saying silly, unhelpful things.

My point was that it was a majority of those on low incomes and benifits in the north of England voting Conservative, after 10 years of having services cut and employment protections eroded, that put Johnston in number 10. They actually voted to have their living conditions worsened still with a Mel Gison cry of Freedom from the EU. Now everyone is reaping the chaos of having this person in charge. Big bungs to their chums, big promises of stuff that can never be delivered, Oh and while you are at it a hugely increased chance of the break up of the UK. Which part of that have I giot wrong?

 

What is the point of this 5 day farce when it seems now in leaked report that schools will not be going back to 11th of jan or remote Learning childrens education have lost enough time they don't have the tools to do remote learning what is the scottish govt playing at then by 11th jan they will put us in another 25 day lockdown  they don't have a clue kids activities  have been shut down for 3 weeks and will shut down again when as cases rise again will shut down again its obvious  this 5 day easing of restrictions causes more problems than remedies

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Workmate got contacted by track and trace to say he had to self isolate as he was in close contact with a positive case,contact was on the 20th and got the text yesterday!they new the contact was positive from the 22nd so it took 5 days to tell my workmate to self isolate utter shambles

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On 11/26/2020 at 11:13 PM, killie1961 said:

What is the point of this 5 day farce when it seems now in leaked report that schools will not be going back to 11th of jan or remote Learning childrens education have lost enough time they don't have the tools to do remote learning what is the scottish govt playing at then by 11th jan they will put us in another 25 day lockdown  they don't have a clue kids activities  have been shut down for 3 weeks and will shut down again when as cases rise again will shut down again its obvious  this 5 day easing of restrictions causes more problems than remedies

Nothing us going to get remotely workable or sensible till the spring when we can go outside for things and people start to get vaccinated. Till then it is going to be a series of lockdows, tiers and back bench rebellions. When we leave the EU on the 1st of January the fun will really start.

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13 hours ago, gdevoy said:

Nothing us going to get remotely workable or sensible till the spring when we can go outside for things and people start to get vaccinated. Till then it is going to be a series of lockdows, tiers and back bench rebellions. When we leave the EU on the 1st of January the fun will really start.

Looks like the EIS influence on 5 day extension hoildays well they can make sure they can fore go  feb hoildays so our kids can get educated seeing  5 months lost in education previously

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On 11/26/2020 at 11:13 PM, killie1961 said:

What is the point of this 5 day farce when it seems now in leaked report that schools will not be going back to 11th of jan or remote Learning childrens education have lost enough time they don't have the tools to do remote learning what is the scottish govt playing at then by 11th jan they will put us in another 25 day lockdown  they don't have a clue kids activities  have been shut down for 3 weeks and will shut down again when as cases rise again will shut down again its obvious  this 5 day easing of restrictions causes more problems than remedies

Another 'leaked' lockdown proposal.

What a s**tty way to govern.

And that's before you discuss how utterly pointless this would be.

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22 minutes ago, Killiepies said:

FM got a roasting today from Andrew Marr .Covid  deaths per capita worst in the UK ,care home deaths the same.  Not doing as good a job as people believe.Car crash stuff today and caught out more than once 

They're just out of a complete national lockdown in England and Wales, which didn't happen in Scotland.  

The death figures lag this by 4-6 weeks.   The Scottish government does not have the borrowing powers to do things like extension of furlough, as was done in England at 24h notice . Thus, complete lockdowns, when required on the basis of clinical need, are less 'do-able' in Scotland.  That is in itself, an argument for independence.

No country is doing 'a good job' on Covid, but the alternative for Scotland - being ran by Boris, Hancock, Richard Lennon, or a PT linesman - is even less compelling to the majority.

Edited by RAG
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26 minutes ago, RAG said:

No country is doing 'a good job' on Covid, 

Exactly! I have been very careful not to be too critical of BoJo over Covid decisions. It is a lose, lose, lose situation for any leader. The whole thing is a huge learning experience and almost every decision made is a mistake on some level.

Regarding Andrew Marr, at least Wee Nicola has the bottle to take this stuff on, not look for the nearest large freezer. 

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2 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

Exactly! I have been very careful not to be too critical of BoJo over Covid decisions. It is a lose, lose, lose situation for any leader. The whole thing is a huge learning experience and almost every decision made is a mistake on some level.

Regarding Andrew Marr, at least Wee Nicola has the bottle to take this stuff on, not look for the nearest large freezer. 

Is also true the current COVID crisis is in some of the poorest communities in Scotland.  Places with ridiculous low life expectancy, high levels of disability, massive widespread deprivation and inequality.  It isn't really surprising when life expectancy is 10 years lower than areas of England, that COVID outbreaks would be taking people to an even earlier grave.  Is certainly nothing for unionists to crow about, unless you like the inequalities of your own folks poverty and depravation, which has remained remarkably consistent in the 313 years of union.

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28 minutes ago, RAG said:

Is also true the current COVID crisis is in some of the poorest communities in Scotland.  Places with ridiculous low life expectancy, high levels of disability, massive widespread deprivation and inequality.  It isn't really surprising when life expectancy is 10 years lower than areas of England, that COVID outbreaks would be taking people to an even earlier grave.  Is certainly nothing for unionists to crow about, unless you like the inequalities of your own folks poverty and depravation, which has remained remarkably consistent in the 313 years of union.

Don’t think unionists are crowing about how Covid has affected our country. Sturgeon to my eyes gets a kinder ride from the MSM than the undoubtably more inept parts of the WM govt . Yet the figures as pointed out by Marr and others doesn’t warrant this . Figures and statistics can all be manipulated to make an argument , and Marr does this with aplomb not just to Sturgeon but most politicians who darken his doorstep . 
As gdevoy says kudos to her for stepping forward but in recent weeks Johnston , Raab ,Starmer and Genrick (I think ) have all appeared on Marr with varying degrees of success , if you count not losing your sh!t on live TV . 

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1 hour ago, RAG said:

They're just out of a complete national lockdown in England and Wales, which didn't happen in Scotland.  

The death figures lag this by 4-6 weeks.   The Scottish government does not have the borrowing powers to do things like extension of furlough, as was done in England at 24h notice . Thus, complete lockdowns, when required on the basis of clinical need, are less 'do-able' in Scotland.  That is in itself, an argument for independence.

Did Wales have the borrowing power?

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7 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said:

Don’t think unionists are crowing about how Covid has affected our country. Sturgeon to my eyes gets a kinder ride from the MSM than the undoubtably more inept parts of the WM govt . Yet the figures as pointed out by Marr and others doesn’t warrant this . Figures and statistics can all be manipulated to make an argument , and Marr does this with aplomb not just to Sturgeon but most politicians who darken his doorstep . 

Or buried and suppressed when it doesn't suit the WM narrative.  The BBC websites sudden ability to publish clear comparative stats on COVID, was noted - but I'll eat my bunnet if they ever publish as clear comparative figures showing Scotland doing better than rUK.  Marr is clever on a weekly basis with his selective stats, in the classic BBC stilted manner to which we have become accustomed.

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2 minutes ago, Scooby_Doo said:

Did Wales have the borrowing power?

Wales only had to lockdown for 17 days, longer lockdowns were required elsewhere.  Wales didn't get the extra funding that was instantly available to England when it went into lockdown and is far less devolved than Scotland.  But Scotland and Wales are funded in a fundamentally different manner.  

An example of this would be the £300m available to sport, which the SG have to wait on the Barnett consequential of, before they know how much cash they have to dish out - extra money available to Scotland is only available as a %  of what is spent in England/Wales, after it is assigned to be spent England/Wales.

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23 minutes ago, RAG said:

Wales only had to lockdown for 17 days, longer lockdowns were required elsewhere.  Wales didn't get the extra funding that was instantly available to England when it went into lockdown and is far less devolved than Scotland.  But Scotland and Wales are funded in a fundamentally different manner.  

An example of this would be the £300m available to sport, which the SG have to wait on the Barnett consequential of, before they know how much cash they have to dish out - extra money available to Scotland is only available as a %  of what is spent in England/Wales, after it is assigned to be spent England/Wales.

'No' would have been more concise.

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2 hours ago, Bhamkillieken said:

her explanation on her knowledge of alex salmond was baffling. 

Dealing with the fact that your former boss close friend and confident spent a good.part of his career groping female employees would present anybody with a number of challenges. In politics it gets even more tricky. Factor in the fact that a number of your competitors for your job are keen to exploit the situation for their own benifit and we are where we are.

I think said competitors would see Marr in the useful idiot category.

Edited by gdevoy
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On 11/25/2020 at 4:50 PM, gdevoy said:

Apologies for the infantile language I used which is not helpful. Not sure where it cones from, perhaps the thinly veiled contempt I perceived the Scots to be held in by many south of the border. But I really should not let my iown subconcious prejudice  be an excuse for saying silly, unhelpful things.

My point was that it was a majority of those on low incomes and benifits in the north of England voting Conservative, after 10 years of having services cut and employment protections eroded, that put Johnston in number 10. They actually voted to have their living conditions worsened still with a Mel Gison cry of Freedom from the EU. Now everyone is reaping the chaos of having this person in charge. Big bungs to their chums, big promises of stuff that can never be delivered, Oh and while you are at it a hugely increased chance of the break up of the UK. Which part of that have I giot wrong?

 

As said previously they voted on immigration  racists

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19 hours ago, RAG said:

Or buried and suppressed when it doesn't suit the WM narrative.  The BBC websites sudden ability to publish clear comparative stats on COVID, was noted - but I'll eat my bunnet if they ever publish as clear comparative figures showing Scotland doing better than rUK.  Marr is clever on a weekly basis with his selective stats, in the classic BBC stilted manner to which we have become accustomed.

I did notice that later in the day the website story was updated to make it a bit clearer that actually they had been pretty selective in terms of the stats presented on the Marr show. In particular picking out a few weeks instead of a long term average. Could also be said they used mentions on death certificate - as opposed to deaths with a test, or number of positives, or hospital admissions, or random prevalence surveys, or excess deaths (including care homes) all of which would make Scotland look slightly better. It’s not a competition though that’s for sure.

Think NS made a mistake to try and highlight differences and walked right into a trap - although it must be hard not to take the bait sometimes

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4 minutes ago, Tom061087 said:

I did notice that later in the day the website story was updated to make it a bit clearer that actually they had been pretty selective in terms of the stats presented on the Marr show. In particular picking out a few weeks instead of a long term average. Could also be said they used mentions on death certificate - as opposed to deaths with a test, or number of positives, or hospital admissions, or random prevalence surveys, or excess deaths (including care homes) all of which would make Scotland look slightly better. It’s not a competition though that’s for sure.

Think NS made a mistake to try and highlight differences and walked right into a trap - although it must be hard not to take the bait sometimes

IIRC Scottish deaths in 2020 from Covid, are 7% lower than England and Wales per head of population. So to use the last 4 weeks figures, when England & Wales are just out of national lockdowns, without mention of the longer term picture, is ever so slightly disingenuous.

Aside from political argy bargy, we don't want people panicking during a pandemic unnecessarily.

I'd doubt the BBC used anything other than 'like for like' figures - deaths within a 28day timeframe of a positive test - shoehorned into a narrow viewpoint of 4 bad weeks for Scotland deaths wise, to suit the overall narrative presented by Marr.

Not seen the whole interview, but I didn't think NS looked that bad explaining the situation in the snippets posted on the BBC website.  Not that anyone looks that great explaining additional deaths - possibly why Boris doesn't do interviews like that.

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58 minutes ago, RAG said:

 

Not seen the whole interview, but I didn't think NS looked that bad explaining the situation in the snippets posted on the BBC website.  Not that anyone looks that great explaining additional deaths - possibly why Boris doesn't do interviews like that.

I thought she acquitted herself well and at least has the honesty to apologise for mistakes unlike the "we've done brilliantly" WM party line. The Salmond debacle BKK mentioned, whilst ignoring everything else, is a bit of a cloud to be fair. If you want to see a car crash interview look at Piers Morgan latest interview with Hancock a few days ago. Hugely embarrasing but good to see the wee s**te squirming. No wonder they crapping themselves to go on GMB. 

Ps its on UTube, the latest interviewer pay rises

Edited by Shropshire_killie
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38 minutes ago, Shropshire_killie said:

The Salmond debacle BKK mentioned, whilst ignoring everything else, is a bit of a cloud to be fair.

Nobody knows the full detail about that, even at trial AS wasn't allowed to provide additional evidence.  Seems likely, if there was some sort of political conspiracy, NS wouldn't be the only person with an axe to grind with AS. In fact thinking logically, she'd be well down the list of people AS had annoyed politically during his career, not least Trump and the UK - especially after going to work for RT.

Course that doesn't stop it being the cloud equivalent of a rolled up edition of yesterdays news to beat the SNP with.  Salmond's been out of office for nigh on 6 years..

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