Mclean07 Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 I agree with Ian.....again....stating what we’ve all been saying for years. Him and Russell also saying the constant abuse of opponents not helpful to their cause of persuading people. Listen and learn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skora11 Posted December 1, 2021 Report Share Posted December 1, 2021 Ipsos MORI showing 55% support of Scottish independence in latest poll. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted December 1, 2021 Report Share Posted December 1, 2021 Yougov/times poll showed 46 no 40yes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKX16 Posted December 1, 2021 Report Share Posted December 1, 2021 If Boris Johnson thought they would win an Independence referendum we would have had one by now. I think if we get a referendum it will be a close call. Once again we have Sir Keir Starmer doing an imitation of Tony Blair in trying to out tory the tories. As far as I'm concerned the Yes side cannot hide behind Covid or whatever the latest strain is to put back a referendum. There will always be some new strain popping up and there will always be people making a profit out of this. Reading the Private eye the winners in all this are the Tory politicians and their donors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted December 2, 2021 Report Share Posted December 2, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, EKX16 said: there will always be people making a profit out of this. Reading the Private eye the winners in all this are the Tory politicians and their donors. ...and this is likely to be the tip of the iceberg as these are just from the start of the pandemic! And yet, we keep the Tories in power, picking our pockets at every turn, it's breathtaking how they get away with it. Edited December 2, 2021 by Scooter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big sexy Posted December 2, 2021 Report Share Posted December 2, 2021 20 hours ago, Scooter said: ...and this is likely to be the tip of the iceberg as these are just from the start of the pandemic! And yet, we keep the Tories in power, picking our pockets at every turn, it's breathtaking how they get away with it. How much money do u think the companies producing the jabs are making 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted December 2, 2021 Report Share Posted December 2, 2021 10 minutes ago, Big sexy said: How much money do u think the companies producing the jabs are making Pfizer Moderna and BioNTech are all ahead from last years position by double figure % , AZ as it’s a not for profit vaccination hasn’t kept pace with them . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_killie Posted December 2, 2021 Report Share Posted December 2, 2021 16 minutes ago, Big sexy said: How much money do u think the companies producing the jabs are making That did cross my mind too...to be fair. The beneficiaries won't be us peasants 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker71 Posted December 2, 2021 Report Share Posted December 2, 2021 On 12/1/2021 at 3:42 PM, Bonbon19 said: Yougov/times poll showed 46 no 40yes This was utter bollox, timed just as the SNP conference was starting, and just as the state broadcaster decamped to tell us all how good we've got it... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted December 3, 2021 Report Share Posted December 3, 2021 5 hours ago, Big sexy said: How much money do u think the companies producing the jabs are making Nice deflection. If they're doing the research, tweaking the jag as variants emerge and saving lives then good on them. But hey, nevermind the multi-millions in commissions to these middle-men pictured, eh? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big sexy Posted December 3, 2021 Report Share Posted December 3, 2021 3 hours ago, Scooter said: Nice deflection. If they're doing the research, tweaking the jag as variants emerge and saving lives then good on them. But hey, nevermind the multi-millions in commissions to these middle-men pictured, eh? Your just a subscription to them now .If people die or have side effects while taking the jag so be it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted December 3, 2021 Report Share Posted December 3, 2021 8 hours ago, Beaker71 said: This was utter bollox, timed just as the SNP conference was starting, and just as the state broadcaster decamped to tell us all how good we've got it... The same could be said of the MORI poll after the SNP had started and telling us how good they were doing …..see how this goes ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker71 Posted December 3, 2021 Report Share Posted December 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Bonbon19 said: The same could be said of the MORI poll after the SNP had started and telling us how good they were doing …..see how this goes ? Nowhere near on the same scale. Name a singke newspaper, broadcaster, Polling firm whichbis owned or even mildly influenced by the SNP (and you must stop conflating the SNP and Independence movements, they really arent the same thing). There isnt one, wall to wall SNP baad, conspicuously timed 'poll' which apparently showed Scotland wanting to stay in the union, spin, deflection and fake news every day and yet the balance is still with Independence BEFORE we have even started campaigning. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted December 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Bonbon19 said: The same could be said of the MORI poll after the SNP had started and telling us how good they were doing …..see how this goes ? The SNP don't need 'polls' to say how well they're doing (compared to other political parties) in Scotland. The answers in the elections they keep winning for the last decade. If another indyref ever does happen, is for the unionist side to come up with an argument as to why folk would vote with an 'already rejected at the polls' Tory party, allied to a meek Labour outfit led by Starmer. Is a totally different situation to 2014, where the SNP were coming into power and didn't have as large a mandate, or indeed a 'settled will of the people' mandate going back over a decade. Some positive case for more Tory rule, (cos that's what staying in the union means in practice) may be made in the meantime? The demographics of the YES/NO vote render it a boring subject to talk about, and unfortunately mean at some point the question will be revisited, and unless something happens radically as did in 2012-2015 period, they'll be a bigger YES win as more Tory rule and the Union drags on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted December 3, 2021 Report Share Posted December 3, 2021 41 minutes ago, Beaker71 said: Nowhere near on the same scale. Name a singke newspaper, broadcaster, Polling firm whichbis owned or even mildly influenced by the SNP (and you must stop conflating the SNP and Independence movements, they really arent the same thing). There isnt one, wall to wall SNP baad, conspicuously timed 'poll' which apparently showed Scotland wanting to stay in the union, spin, deflection and fake news every day and yet the balance is still with Independence BEFORE we have even started campaigning. I’m not conflating independence with the SNP but they are linked . How about the National for supporting the SNP ? But as you’ve said countless times the MSM are not to be believed , but obviously some people still pay attention to them . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted December 3, 2021 Report Share Posted December 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, RAG said: The SNP don't need 'polls' to say how well they're doing (compared to other political parties) in Scotland. The answers in the elections they keep winning for the last decade. If another indyref ever does happen, is for the unionist side to come up with an argument as to why folk would vote with an 'already rejected at the polls' Tory party, allied to a meek Labour outfit led by Starmer. Is a totally different situation to 2014, where the SNP were coming into power and didn't have as large a mandate, or indeed a 'settled will of the people' mandate going back over a decade. Some positive case for more Tory rule, (cos that's what staying in the union means in practice) may be made in the meantime? The demographics of the YES/NO vote render it a boring subject to talk about, and unfortunately mean at some point the question will be revisited, and unless something happens radically as did in 2012-2015 period, they'll be a bigger YES win as more Tory rule and the Union drags on. The unionist mantra imo that will be used at the next referendum will be how being part of the U.K. and the monies logistics and the vaccines supplied through this helped Scotland get through the pandemic . Did Scotland do any better than the rest of the U.K. ? I’m sure there are facts and figures out there that will be put forward to show both sides of that argument . Whilst I’ve no argument to justify this Tory government’s actions I have to believe like the SNP did pre the 90,s that there will be a political change in the future . And if the unionists side line Johnson Starmer and Ross there argument would look better . I also believe that they will attack the coalition/agreement with the Greens which if they get all that they want in the next parliament is going to hit the Scottish people in the pocket , putting aside of course whether it’s the right thing to do . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker71 Posted December 3, 2021 Report Share Posted December 3, 2021 12 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said: The unionist mantra imo that will be used at the next referendum will be how being part of the U.K. and the monies logistics and the vaccines supplied through this helped Scotland get through the pandemic . Did Scotland do any better than the rest of the U.K. ? I’m sure there are facts and figures out there that will be put forward to show both sides of that argument . Whilst I’ve no argument to justify this Tory government’s actions I have to believe like the SNP did pre the 90,s that there will be a political change in the future . And if the unionists side line Johnson Starmer and Ross there argument would look better . I also believe that they will attack the coalition/agreement with the Greens which if they get all that they want in the next parliament is going to hit the Scottish people in the pocket , putting aside of course whether it’s the right thing to do . Why fight so hard if we are suxh a burden.... this is central to any argiment the yoons have, and it just doesnt wash. Its 1minute to midnight for the union 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted December 3, 2021 Report Share Posted December 3, 2021 19 minutes ago, Beaker71 said: Why fight so hard if we are suxh a burden.... this is central to any argiment the yoons have, and it just doesnt wash. Its 1minute to midnight for the union You’re buying into the right wing English media propaganda Beaker . The majority don’t think we’re a burden and I suspect the UK government will be telling their right wing media pals not to conduct any polls to the contrary in the run up to any referendum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker71 Posted December 3, 2021 Report Share Posted December 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said: You’re buying into the right wing English media propaganda Beaker . The majority don’t think we’re a burden and I suspect the UK government will be telling their right wing media pals not to conduct any polls to the contrary in the run up to any referendum. You are kidding yourself if the majority don't think we are a burden. You ask the average jor in Englandshire, and they tell you they're sick of subsidising our life. Majority of MPs are the same. Yoon tactics coming back to bite you on the helmet, never mind the arse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted December 3, 2021 Report Share Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Beaker71 said: You are kidding yourself if the majority don't think we are a burden. You ask the average jor in Englandshire, and they tell you they're sick of subsidising our life. Majority of MPs are the same. Yoon tactics coming back to bite you on the helmet, never mind the arse. The powers that be know fine well Westminster would be seriously diminished if Scotland was not part of the UK. However it suits their agenda both here and in Englandshire for them to feed figures to the right wing MSM showing what a hideous burden Scotkand is on The Exchequer. In the same way Nicola Sturgeon knows polls showing less than 50% suppirt for independence on a single day mean nothing. She also knows she needs more than 55% in the polls to be certain of winning a referendum. Its called politics. Edited December 3, 2021 by gdevoy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted December 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2021 4 hours ago, Bonbon19 said: The unionist mantra imo that will be used at the next referendum will be how being part of the U.K. and the monies logistics and the vaccines supplied through this helped Scotland get through the pandemic . Did Scotland do any better than the rest of the U.K. ? I’m sure there are facts and figures out there that will be put forward to show both sides of that argument . Firstly the 'monies' supplied for the pandemic arrived through thin air. A central cog of the next referendum will indeed be Tory mismanagement of UK finances in the period 2014-next referendum. It won't look too pretty. The UK has had it's worst economic contraction in 300 years, significantly worse than our neighbours, then there's Brexit - remember that? Regarding the pandemic / indy position, a better comparison would be to look at how much better per head of population the Republic of Ireland fared than Scotland or the UK itself. To suggest the UK covid response has been stellar simply doesn't wash and might be the ultimate expression of 'Stockholm Syndrome'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted December 3, 2021 Report Share Posted December 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, RAG said: Firstly the 'monies' supplied for the pandemic arrived through thin air. A central cog of the next referendum will indeed be Tory mismanagement of UK finances in the period 2014-next referendum. It won't look too pretty. The UK has had it's worst economic contraction in 300 years, significantly worse than our neighbours, then there's Brexit - remember that? Regarding the pandemic / indy position, a better comparison would be to look at how much better per head of population the Republic of Ireland fared than Scotland or the UK itself. To suggest the UK covid response has been stellar simply doesn't wash and might be the ultimate expression of 'Stockholm Syndrome'. But the monies did arrive and kept Scotlands economy going during grim times . Also the price of oil and gas tanked by between 50-85% according to OECD figures during Covid yet Scotlands economy kept going . I agree the UKs Covid response and by association Scotlands wasn’t stellar and there will be nitpicking of any reports should they be produced before any referendum vote 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted December 3, 2021 Report Share Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) My principal reason for suppirting independence would be nothing to do with finance, nuclear weapons,or any "Anglophobia". It would be to free ourselves of a 17th century electoral system. A system that, apart from here, only exists now in third world countries, and possibly the Middke East. A system that still has a hereditary legislature. (House of Lords ffs) A system that would put a total idiot in charge, someone not responsible enough to look after his own family, in order to prevent The Left taking power. It would be nice though to think those pushing for independence had an actual financial / defence plan. Edited December 3, 2021 by gdevoy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killie71 Posted December 3, 2021 Report Share Posted December 3, 2021 39 minutes ago, gdevoy said: It would be nice though to think those pushing for independence had an actual financial / defence plan. Defence plan? We can’t possibly plan for an Alien attack. They’ll have special death rays and stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted December 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Bonbon19 said: But the monies did arrive and kept Scotlands economy going during grim times . Also the price of oil and gas tanked by between 50-85% according to OECD figures during Covid yet Scotlands economy kept going . The money did not exist and was plucked from 'thin air' or 'borrowed' as we like to call it. None of the money to pay for the pandemic or the fallout from Brexit exists, it's all borrowed. That is the outcome of the economic policy of successive Tory governments you are defending. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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