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Motherwell Match Forfeit - Appeal Successful


Allan

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Lots of people might disagree but my feeling is we need to accept this and move on. The whataboutery needs to stop as people aren’t comparing like with like when talking about Aberdeen, Celtic and Rangers. Take the Bolingoli example - it was one piece of idiotic behaviour by one player in his own private time. No Celtic players tested positive as a result. If one of our players did that and there was any suggestion that we forfeit points over it we would all be going ballistic and saying it’s unfair to punish the whole team. Ourselves and St M have had outbreaks that have spread throughout the squad, as a direct result of players’ behaviour while at work.

Personally I think our punishment is harsh but we would be better off using it to fire us up for the rest of the season rather than greetin’ about how “it wisnae just us, what about them over there...”

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3 minutes ago, historyman said:

Ok, If you want to be pedantic in all situations the games weren’t played yet different sanctions were applied. 
I think that it is totally unfair and in all of this the worst situation by a country mile is Aberdeen yet they got to play the game and walk away with 3pts. 

I don’t think it is pedantic. Bolingoli’s actions were one piece of idiotic behaviour in his own private time - no Celtic players tested positive as a result. Meanwhile we had an outbreak that spread throughout our squad after several players apparently didn’t follow protocol while working for the club. The two situations are simply not comparable. Every club unable to fulfil fixtures has forfeited games, in the league and cup.

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7 minutes ago, killie89 said:

I don’t think it is pedantic. Bolingoli’s actions were one piece of idiotic behaviour in his own private time - no Celtic players tested positive as a result. Meanwhile we had an outbreak that spread throughout our squad after several players apparently didn’t follow protocol while working for the club. The two situations are simply not comparable. Every club unable to fulfil fixtures has forfeited games, in the league and cup.

No they haven’t. Celtic and Aberdeen didn’t. That is a fact. 

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  • CB changed the title to SPFL: "Disciplinary proceedings have been commenced against Kilmarnock FC" 3-0 forfeit to Motherwell
3 minutes ago, historyman said:

No they haven’t. Celtic and Aberdeen didn’t. That is a fact. 

At what point were Celtic or Aberdeen unable to fulfil a fixture as a result of a COVID outbreak within their squad?

Loads of clubs have had positive tests but haven’t had to forfeit fixtures, not just those two clubs. Us, St Mirren, Forfar and Albion Rovers have all been in that position and all have forfeited.

Maybe all these other clubs should have forfeited games too, but it’s simply not true to say their situations are identical to ours.

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Wow is this how Dungcaster thinks he justifies his £338k/yr salary?  How can he award Motherwell 6pts and 6 goals for doing nothing?  This gives Motherwell a huge boost to their European prospects and every change that they could get an additional £70 to £140k extra for 'false' league position.  It could relegate St Mirren or even Killie!  Did Saints and Killie try to cheat the league, I very much doubt it as nothing of our bad behaviour (?) Gave us an unfair advantage.  In business you are usually fined for malpractice based on your turnover.  What would the OF be fined for any similar breach if we are fined £40k?  My last point, did the clubs not roundly vote against the prospect of allowing forfeit of points, does Dungcaster think he has unilateral authority to do what he likes?  An absolute farce!  Boy am I angry!

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28 minutes ago, Dotaman said:

I don’t have an issue with us facing some sanction for this. It’s the nature of the sanction that is the problem. All of these games could have been played by now. We could have subsequently faced a fine or points deduction. Rewarding Motherwell with 6 points (+6 g.d) without them kicking a ball is perverse.

Pretty much sums up feelings on it all, particularly on the basis that there were opportunities to rearrange our match - the aim should always be to play the match.

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1 hour ago, Bob Agg said:

Too many Killie fans here desperate to kick lumps out of our own without knowing the full details. Why are the SPL's so-called rules more stringent that government legislation? Why is it not okay to sit near someone on teh bus to a game but okay to sit beside them in the dressing room? 

Too many haven't read the full judgement, judging by some of the comments.

Elite football was given some dispensations, subject to strict protocols agreed by the Joint Response Group.

By not enforcing social distancing rules on the training and playing pitch, the game could restart. But the rules still apply away from the training and playing areas.

That includes changing areas:

"04 CHANGING FACILITIES – PLAYERS/COACHING STAFF

Changing facilities for players and team staff should be risk assessed to ensure compliance with social distancing protocols."

 

 

Edited by skygod
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1 minute ago, skygod said:

Too many haven't read the full judgement, judging by some of the comments.

Elite football was given some dispensations subject to strict protocols agreed by the Joint Response Group.

By not enforcing social distancing rules on the training and playing pitch, the game could restart. But the rules still apply away from the training and playing areas.

That includes changing areas:

"04 CHANGING FACILITIES – PLAYERS/COACHING STAFF

Changing facilities for players and team staff should be risk assessed to ensure compliance with social distancing protocols."

 

 

Some folk also don't know the meaning of 'close contact' in relation to Covid.

Some can't see (or more likely don't want to see) the difference between Killie /StMirren and Aberdeen /Celtic ... 

In our case THE CLUB BROKE THE RULES and we, rightly, got fecked for it .... if it was the other way about the folk doing a Donald Trump impression would be demanding 'justice' .

 

If I was StJohnstone I'd be going tonto because Aberdeen had 8(?) players suspended for their game but because the government called the match off, those players were all able to play next time around.

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17 minutes ago, killie89 said:

At what point were Celtic or Aberdeen unable to fulfil a fixture as a result of a COVID outbreak within their squad?

Loads of clubs have had positive tests but haven’t had to forfeit fixtures, not just those two clubs. Us, St Mirren, Forfar and Albion Rovers have all been in that position and all have forfeited.

Maybe all these other clubs should have forfeited games too, but it’s simply not true to say their situations are identical to ours.

There was no COVID outbreak in their squad. That is irrelevant. Their games did not go ahead on the original planned date because they were unable to fulfil them. The Scottish government did not prevent the games from going ahead on the basis of what their opponents did - therefore the games were cancelled because of the actions of Celtic and Aberdeen. 
I repeat in the whole of this sorry saga the worst incident by far was with Aberdeen and when you compare their penalty to ours (out of league cup and 3pts) its a disgrace. 

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45 minutes ago, historyman said:

Ok, If you want to be pedantic in all situations the games weren’t played yet different sanctions were applied. 
I think that it is totally unfair and in all of this the worst situation by a country mile is Aberdeen yet they got to play the game and walk away with 3pts. 

They didn't just get to play the game, they got to wait till their whole squad was fit as well.

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3 minutes ago, skygod said:

Too many haven't read the full judgement, judging by some of the comments.

Elite football was given some dispensations subject to strict protocols agreed by the Joint Response Group.

By not enforcing social distancing rules on the training and playing pitch, the game could restart. But the rules still apply away from the training and playing areas.

That includes changing areas:

"04 CHANGING FACILITIES – PLAYERS/COACHING STAFF

Changing facilities for players and team staff should be risk assessed to ensure compliance with social distancing protocols."

 

 

What about getting pished till 5 in the morning and doing the conga with all teammates and coaching staff? Don't give me the bubble pish, they came home and mixed with families then went back to clubs. Double standards, under 21's too ffs. Gordon Dalziel just admitted on radio that if Ceptic or Sevco this would not repeat not have been the punishment.

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20 minutes ago, skygod said:

Too many haven't read the full judgement, judging by some of the comments.

Elite football was given some dispensations, subject to strict protocols agreed by the Joint Response Group.

By not enforcing social distancing rules on the training and playing pitch, the game could restart. But the rules still apply away from the training and playing areas.

That includes changing areas:

"04 CHANGING FACILITIES – PLAYERS/COACHING STAFF

Changing facilities for players and team staff should be risk assessed to ensure compliance with social distancing protocols."

 

 

Ok, fair enough. 
So how do you explain the difference in the sanctions for Killie and St Mirren compared to Celtic and Aberdeen given that all 4 clubs failed to comply as required?
It seems to me that us and Saints have just been unlucky with the virus coming into the club and spreading while with Celtic and Aberdeen they were just lucky that it didn’t. 
For me it smacks of double standards and I won’t ever be able to see it any other way. 

Edited by historyman
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I’ve said for a long time now that the SFA don’t run Scottish football, they are only the puppets of the real power of the SFA, which is the old firm ! They bow down to the old firm constantly, because they are afraid they walk away    and take the potential income from TV and media with them, hence they do whatever the old firm wish, and because of this the SFA need to flex their muscles towards the other teams which results in bullying them to try and show they are the real deal and have full power and control which everyone knows is a joke, it’s time the whole SFA was taken to task over its bullying tactics towards the so called lower teams and allowing the old firm to continue to change the rules to suit themselves 

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8 minutes ago, historyman said:

So how do you explain the difference in the sanctions for Killie and St Mirren compared to Celtic and Aberdeen given that all 4 clubs failed to comply as required?
It seems to me that us and Saints have just been unlucky with the virus coming into the club and spreading while with Celtic and Aberdeen they were just lucky that it didn’t. 
For me it smacks of double standards and I won’t ever be able to see it any other way. 

The judgement deals with this:

"Unlike (KIlmarnock), both Celtic and Aberdeen had sufficient players to have fulfilled the fixtures required of them, had the Scottish Government not effectively postponed those matches. Both Aberdeen and Celtic situations were strict liabilities rather than the clubs themselves having been found to have a degree of culpability in the actions of their players outwith the club’s control."

 

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2 hours ago, Dillinger said:

Who's "they"? The SPFL? Why would they have anything to say about the national team?

As I've said all along, it was obvious from the route the spfl went with this that something was done wrong at club level. Its mental folk are still in here giving it "what about Bolongoli?" 

There's a huge difference between a business not putting in place the right protocols for their employees, and one lone employee acting against regulations in his own time. 

For what its worth, I agree it does seem harsh that not only have we been punished, but Motherwell have gained - twice. 

The players that play for the national team and in the Scottish league have nothing to do with the spfl?

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9 minutes ago, historyman said:

Ok, fair enough. 
So how do you explain the difference in the sanctions for Killie and St Mirren compared to Celtic and Aberdeen given that all 4 clubs failed to comply as required?
It seems to me that us and Saints have just been unlucky with the virus coming into the club and spreading while with Celtic and Aberdeen they were just lucky that it didn’t. 
For me it smacks of double standards and I won’t ever be able to see it any other way. 

It looks like Aberdeen and Celtic could prove they were complying with protocols internally. The players weren’t complying away from the club. It’s individuals or groups who have let themselves down. The clubs can’t be monitoring them every hour of every day.

Killie and St Mirren have been found guilty of breaches as clubs not individuals or small groups.

I don’t know why the club admitted its failings rather than wait for the SPFL to prove them. Perhaps an attempt at damage limitation which has now backfired

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3 minutes ago, skygod said:

The judgement deals with this:

"Unlike (KIlmarnock), both Celtic and Aberdeen had sufficient players to have fulfilled the fixtures required of them, had the Scottish Government not effectively postponed those matches. Both Aberdeen and Celtic situations were strict liabilities rather than the clubs themselves having been found to have a degree of culpability in the actions of their players outwith the club’s control."

 

So we are still going with the story that Celtic football club didn’t know one of their players had broken the rules by leaving the country? Very good.

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4 minutes ago, Killie61 said:

I’ve said for a long time now that the SFA don’t run Scottish football, they are only the puppets of the real power of the SFA, which is the old firm ! They bow down to the old firm constantly, because they are afraid they walk away    and take the potential income from TV and media with them, hence they do whatever the old firm wish, and because of this the SFA need to flex their muscles towards the other teams which results in bullying them....

I don't think the OF will care that Killie and Saints have forfeited matches, but they will if someone reports them for breaching the protocols.

These judgements have set precedents, of which other clubs including the OF might fall foul.  

 

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