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Why I Don't Want to Join The Trust...


jmthmsn

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5 minutes ago, FanWithaTypewritter said:

I stand to be corrected and no doubt will be, but with St Mirren fans really buying into their version of the Trust, has the money raised not been given to the club thus allowing them to put it towards new signings like Brophy?

If so, is that not an incentive to get involved in ours? 
 

Jim.... this has probably been already asked somewhere but what are Saints and ‘Well doing that attracts their support to a Trust whilst we struggle? Surely a formula to success should be able to be rolled out and work. 

the insinuation that TIK subs will allow money to be spend on players (either buying or wages) is one thing that annoys me. It might also let directors loans be repaid, or first class travel or caviar in the directors lounge. but every post you see insinuates that these subs will allow the club to increase spend on players. it simply isnt true.

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A hypothetical question please.

I wondered if the Club changed hands for any reason and BB had decided to sell his shareholding how you would sit as regards still having Director privileges etc? Have you a built in generational guarantee or would a new owner have the right to change what you have worked hard to achieve?

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Just now, Bhamkillieken said:

the insinuation that TIK subs will allow money to be spend on players (either buying or wages) is one thing that annoys me. It might also let directors loans be repaid, or first class travel or caviar in the directors lounge. but every post you see insinuates that these subs will allow the club to increase spend on players. it simply isnt true.

I wasn’t insinuating, just asking if my understanding of where Saints Trust  money was being directed was the case. It either is or isn’t.

Thought If it was that might be a positive for fans not currently involved.

What’s  clear  from this thread is that many fans simply aren’t buying into the concept of a Trust and that’s fine. 

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8 minutes ago, Bhamkillieken said:

to help answer OP, i see no point in being a member of the trust. i support the club through going to games, buying stuff and giving them money. 

£10 a year is neither here or there its nothing to do with cost, but i dont agree with fan ownership and how TIK are proposing to to get to 51%. so i wont give the trust any money as they are the main push behind TIK. this thread isnt about tik though.

whenever there has been a request for some money for this website (it may have only been once or twice) i have happily donated money to this website.

but a thread stating why are you not a member of the trust is confrontational and defensive, how about a thread starting what could we do so that you join the trust/tik? that might actually take you forward.

but however you put it, the active trust members is a very low percentage of the fans (500ish when we cant take 20,000 to semi/final), i guess some of the inactive previous members will be dead/given up. so i see no relevance in quoting this figure.

you might as well start a thread why dont you vote tory/labour? it will be as productive.

Would you and others consider a club membership system similar to TiK where fan ownership isn’t the final goal? A way of giving to the club every month.

I have my own reservations about fan ownership and not being sure if it’s the right choice but my feeling was it might be better to be involved and have a vote in decisions.

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2 hours ago, jmthmsn said:

That's why I started to the thread to find out what barriers we're putting up that people don't want involved or to debunk any myths surrounding the Trust. Trying to learn lessons.

Please don't be touchy about it.

Hi, definitely not touchy about it, but when someone says "Are you a member of the trust/TiK" it gets peoples backs up, that's what i am saying the problem is, it shouldn't be a divide and conquer thing

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16 minutes ago, Bhamkillieken said:

the insinuation that TIK subs will allow money to be spend on players (either buying or wages) is one thing that annoys me. It might also let directors loans be repaid, or first class travel or caviar in the directors lounge. but every post you see insinuates that these subs will allow the club to increase spend on players. it simply isnt true.

Season ticket money and gate money could also go to paying directors loans etc could it not? 
At the end of the day it’s extra money for the club that they wouldn’t otherwise have, which can only be seen  as a positive surely? 
if it were a significant sum going to the club (I.e more members/subs or more ST or walk ups ) then the budget would increase and more money available for players.

if the club needs 30k a month for covid testing and the trust say we’ll cover that then the club then have a spare 30k a month for player budget. 
 

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11 hours ago, PrestersKtid said:

There is a shareholder register, All members  shown with active members are highlighted. Not sure how up to date though.

http://new.theclaymoreproject.com/uploads/entities/1066/files/SR-310719.pdf 

Seeing as this has been mentioned, the shareholder register is redundant now, thankfully....'cos it was a lot of spreadsheet hours. In the early days once you joined the Trust you were always a shareholder. Community Benefit Society rules are now you must be an active member.

GoCardless has it all on a database now but there's still an awful lot of admin work associated with membership/TiK etc.

If we can increase membership numbers sufficiently, we'll consider the 'Lets Connect' system that the St. Mirren Trust use but there's a pretty big start up cost and annual payments.

Maybe someone can suggest better options?

Anyway, if your in any doubt about your membership, email us - [email protected].

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11 hours ago, malcr0 said:

Jim until recently I was in that category. Member of TiK but not the Trust. I had mistakenly related the Trust to the politics of the past. When I thought about it properly I realised that wasn’t the case any more. Not sure how you cut through years of apathy though.

Constant positivity and hopefully, occasionally delivering the goods in some shape or form!

Thanks for your support.

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11 hours ago, Arderkilliesier said:

Apologies as I confess to having a biased opinion on the subject as having watched many a Football Club going to the wall because of vein and incompetent owners and believe that the fans of those clubs had no doubt the same feelings for their club as Killie fans have for our club and don't want to see that happen to us.

Therefore the best way to stop that from happening is for the fans to own a larger share of the club than the private investors and have an influence on the board, I would probably go farther and go for all out fan ownership.

I can't say I 100% agree with all initiatives introduced by the Trust, but it is a democracy with all members having a vote and generally they have been right and good for the club and the fans and I feel for the members who put in an inordinate amount of work and energy in running the Trust and helping the club which should be lauded.

Surely most must see that in the financial situation the country is in and the normal one Killie finds itself, if BB has a change of heart or business fortune we could be in big trouble, so better to be proactive rather than reactive in the funding and long term survival of the club and the Trust is the best vehicle at our disposal. 

Thanks for the supportive spiel.

You're right. If BB got hit with a tanker his shareholding would probably get passed onto his son, who would soon get scunnered dipping into his pocket on a regular basis, bail out and sell the shareholding to his lawyer for a quid and then......... 

Sh*t!! There goes the positivity! ?‍♂️ Caught in the first fishing expedition.

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11 hours ago, Killie1984 said:

Sorry for the criticism, but asking people to check lists of members or search through bank statements appears somewhat amateurish. 

Should there not be a trust website where you can log in your details and be taken to a dashboard where you can check and renew your membership, donate to TIK, get updates etc. 

There is - thekillietrust.com.

Everything but a dashboard to check your membership but if you sign up, it renews automatically at the same time every year until you decide you don't love us no more and cancel your bank mandate.

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For those who have mentioned it. The “Trust In Killie” initiative got its name from then Trust Director Tommy Adams. There was no real clash because the official name of the Trust is the “Kilmarnock Supporters’ Society Limited”, which was on the logo until only last year. It was an Industrial and Provident Society before they were deemed old hat and as Jim says became a Community Benefit Society. There are infinite rules and regulations to comply with including all the Financial Authorities stuff so “re-branding” and the like could be a nightmare in more ways than one, it could prove costly as well. Maybe they could refresh and relaunch with the original name? Takes the word Trust out of the equation altogether.

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5 minutes ago, baz said:

For those who have mentioned it. The “Trust In Killie” initiative got its name from then Trust Director Tommy Adams. There was no real clash because the official name of the Trust is the “Kilmarnock Supporters’ Society Limited”, which was on the logo until only last year. It was an Industrial and Provident Society before they were deemed old hat and as Jim says became a Community Benefit Society. There are infinite rules and regulations to comply with including all the Financial Authorities stuff so “re-branding” and the like could be a nightmare in more ways than one, it could prove costly as well. Maybe they could refresh and relaunch with the original name? Takes the word Trust out of the equation altogether.

Just a thought the Killie KiSS as opposed to the Glasgow Kiss!!

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Has the Trust sounded out the views of their members on the suitability of Alex Dyer continuing as manager?

If so, has the position of the trust been communicated to the board via their representative on the board?

if not, why not? The majority of fans on this forum, many of whom are trust members, think we should be looking for a new manager. 

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3 hours ago, Bhamkillieken said:

but however you put it, the active trust members is a very low percentage of the fans (500ish when we cant take 20,000 to semi/final), i guess some of the inactive previous members will be dead/given up. so i see no relevance in quoting this figure.

You and I have been having words about the Trust for long and weary and to be honest from your posts here I don’t expect that to change. You won’t be surprised then that I take issue with the attached quote. Your numbers are way out. There is just under 1,000 active Trust members. There are at most 2,900 active season ticket holders (including kids) and the figures actually show that ST holders make up the majority of our match day support. That would mean well over one third of match going Killie fans are Trust members. Not such a minority as the Trust once were you have to agree surely?

I appreciate that fan ownership is an issue for some, but there is a massive difference in being fan owned (51%) and fan operated, which the Killie Trust have always maintained is not one of their aims, they want the Club run by professionals in a professional manner and the money they bring in should help to facilitate that. Let’s be honest though, as the shareholdings currently stand, it won’t ever be an issue for the foreseeable future, certainly not in our lifetimes...but it is something in my opinion that is worth working towards, if done right, many of the biggest football clubs in the world are majority owned by their fans, it can work and it’s an infinitely better prospect than a Gretna scenario.

What it does need to work for sure is a cross section of opinions and ideas, it’s good that you can use this platform to put your points across...we might not agree on a lot but hopefully one day we can find some middle ground...it has happened before, as many of the former Trust Directors will confirm.

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14 hours ago, Al#1 said:

Thanks. Going by that I’m on the list but not active. But at a glance 60% are not active.

Surely this is where a recruitment drive should start?

it seems to be a little bit of the MJ - you know where we are Mantra!

( as previous) i am happy to help the trust in this respect if they are interested 

 

I've checked the records for the past 3+ years but can't find any trace of your membership since we went to the GoCardless system (...favoured by other Trusts also).

We spent quite a bit of money around the launch of this attempting to contact 'inactive' members, first by email and then by post without much success. Would need to trawl the minutes to get numbers but I believe it was a pretty low return.

Anyway, I suppose we've generated our numbers over the past three years. main thing is, it has continued to gain momentum. We had 650 active members just over a year ago.

Always happy to accept help and advice which will benefit the Trust.

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13 hours ago, Wrangodog said:

I was at the Irvine Q&A with Lee McCulloch and it was badly attended. Maybe it was too nice a summer's night, but it was disappointing. Maybe an online Q&A with AD, but given some of the comments on here it would need to be on the basis of questions submitted prior to the online event taking place. 

We are waiting on availability of some 'guests' for our next 'On Board, In Person' event. When we get this, emails will go out again with requests for questions.

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14 hours ago, Al#1 said:

100% agree

I am willing to help to provide a more professional approach to recruitment , retaining members And incentives.

Previous offers of help to the trust have been ignored or declined.  I am available to discuss further with any board member.

Apologies, I don't recall any approach to give recruitment/retention advice. This would be warmly welcomed.

There hasn't really been an issue so far (touch wood) with retention. Although the TiK fundraising campaign isn't really about rewards, we usually do a prize draw every month. Several of you will have been match day guests of Cathy's at a home game. in the current climate, we'll utilise shop vouchers again and that way, the money is still going to the Club.

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11 hours ago, Bhamkillieken said:

it galls me that whenever the Trust is mentioned the immediate response is that it is only £10 a year. What has that got to do with anything? i doubt even making it free would drastically increase the numbers long term. sure immediately you might get a couple, but if people had to go through a process to renew each year i reckon the level would remain roughly where it is now. the amount of current inactive members would indicate such.

if you want to meet fellow killie fans, go to games (when you are able to do so)

To be honest, I think we've moved on a fair bit since you last did your your research into the Trust.

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9 hours ago, Wrangodog said:

You don't have to go through a process to renew, it comes off your bank account every year. It isn't about meeting fellow Killie fans, it's about having a say in the running of our club. At the moment it is a relatively small say but it has achieved or is on the way to achieving things that fans want, like rail seating and improved facilities for disabled fans. The Trust has also put money into the club during a very difficult financial period for football.

Nobody wants this to be an us and them situation, the more people that join and contribute the more the Trust represents the majority of our fanbase rather than the minority. 

Thanks. Couldn't have put that bit better myself!

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9 hours ago, Bhamkillieken said:

this is absolutely this. the vast majority of killie fans i know have nothing to do with the trust or tik. like it or not the Trust/Tik are in the minority. That is not intended to be a goad in anyway, its just a fact.

 

Again, you're behind the time with your facts I'm afraid.

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7 hours ago, Forres Killie said:

Just a quick one from me, been signed up for the trust in killie from the start but never signed up for the trust. Being from up the north of Scotland my only affiliation with Kilmarnock and Ayrshire is through the team I support (dad is originally from Troon). With the trust side of things I always perceived it as doing things in the community down in killie so never thought of getting on board as it doesn’t really feel like I should have a say (being from up here). 

Firstly, thanks for your support. Unfortunately, the rules of a CBS don't give you a vote/say unless you are a member. To the community thing.....

The community aspect is very important to the Trust and to the football Club. The community is in fact the lifeblood of the Club without whose support Rugby Park would (in the normal world) be pretty empty on match days. We've got to work to try and generate a love for the Club, particularly with kids to ensure a support for the future and therefore a reasonably sustainable Club.

Similarly, the business community. We need their support for adverts in programmes, boards around the ground, hospitality and even attracting the Billy Bowie's and Phyllis McLeish's of this world to love the Club and invest. Business people love to be associated with community clubs. We've a history of Directors who've made their wealth locally and want to give something back. The football Club's about the only thing about that regularly keeps the town's name alive. When the team are doing well, the town IS alive. Just now we're all down and unfortunately, so the Club's an easy target to put the boot into. But, apart from....well a lot of serious inexplicable player brain freezes, we'd have plenty of points, far more confident performances as a result of these points and a happier support. (maybe?)

.....but my cups always half full. 

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7 hours ago, Cc87 said:

The club has 80K followers across the official social media accounts. The Trust could easily use paid social ads to retarget these audiences, via Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn primarily, with an engagement and/or web click objective. Twitter will have a large volume of non-supporters and click through rates aren’t great, so it’s not always great value for paid advertising. The other channels have 40K followers to kick off with targeting, Twitter could be organic. Use the ad posts to explain what the Trust has delivered for the club in recent times and it’s relationship with the club - bite-sized, to the point and informative context which will capture supporter attention. Also, signpost to the sign up page of the Trust in the ads and explain how straightforward it is. This can be done via Trust profiles or as a direct ad posts on the official KFC channels if allowed to do so. A 1% conversion rate could be 400 new subscribers, not to mention it’d likely boost awareness among a captive audience and be organically popular if the messaging and call to action is strong enough. Appreciate budget is needed to do this, but on average a £100 paid ad investment tends to reach around 7K profiles, depending on how refined the targeting is. There’s no harm in trying if you’re trying to freshen things up and build momentum. 

This is WAY outta my comfort zone.

If you'd like to lead on this and show the way.....we're all ears,

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7 hours ago, Dieter's Heeder said:

Great thread, and I apologise in advance that I've not had the time to read the whole thing so this question has probably already been asked and answered, if so, just say. 

But I've been wondering why both the Trust and TIK perhaps don't get pushed as much as they can. For example, you can go and buy a season ticket without even a question of would you like to join the Trust or contribute to TIK etc when it might be a good opportunity to encourage more people to join? Surely as something which benefits both the trust and the club as a whole, this is something which could be arranged for any sales? Even if uptake isn't outrageous, it might encourage that lapsed contributer back or give a fan a spur of the moment decision where they go for it? Just a suggestion, might be a no goer and might already have been answered so sorry for wasting your time if so. 

Definitely NOT a waste of time. Thanks. Food for thought.

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