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Why I Don't Want to Join The Trust...


jmthmsn

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  • baz changed the title to Why I Don't Want to Join The Trust...
38 minutes ago, baz said:

Best wishes to your auld man Paul, maybe one day we'll be able to have a coffee and chat and we can tell him all about it.

As I said in an earlier post ... he is one of the many who don't bother or can't be arsed with the Sunday - Friday off the pitch stuff .. it's all about gameday.

 

I can appreciate how hard it was for you guys and those currently in position. when I was on the board in the early days a few personal comments were taken as official Trust stance.  You do have to really think about what you say or write.

Some folk will never get on board with the Trust or any of the ideas, and that's fine, but some of the comments on this thread are disgraceful.

 

 

.

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Try to do something to effect change and you become a target to get shot at often by people that aren’t willing to do anything to make things change. 

Do nothing to effect change and nothing will change.

Look at the various fans groups that have tried to make positive changes and they have all been criticised for one reason or another. 

Funny thing is the most vocal critics are often people that don’t want to get involved in making a difference but are happy to criticise those that are willing and trying to make things better as no fan sets out to make the situation the club worse. 

Edited by MarkyMark
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3 minutes ago, MarkyMark said:

Try to do something to effect change and you become a target to get shot at often by people that aren’t willing to do anything to make things change. 

Do nothing to effect change and nothing will change.

Look at the various fans groups that have tried to make positive changes and they have all been criticised for one reason or another. 

Funny thing is the most vocal critics are often people that don’t want to get involved in making a difference but are happy to criticise those that are willing and trying to make things better as no fan sets out to make the situation the club worse. 

?

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On 1/9/2021 at 4:57 AM, historyman said:

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my questions. However, your answer has simply reinforced my view that I’m unclear as to the purpose of the Killie Trust organisation. 

Maybe quicker to read stuff on our wedsite for this.

www.thekillietrust.com

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On 1/8/2021 at 11:10 PM, historyman said:

Has the Trust sounded out the views of their members on the suitability of Alex Dyer continuing as manager?

If so, has the position of the trust been communicated to the board via their representative on the board?

if not, why not? The majority of fans on this forum, many of whom are trust members, think we should be looking for a new manager. 

Missed this one so wasn't aware I'd given a 'politician's answer'.

The Trust haven't run a poll of it's members on the suitability of Alex Dyer continuing as manager. Cathy is however aware of the cross section of views of the Trust board members.

Members haven't requested we do so .........and, is this really a good way to go when we're currently a Private Limited Company? Would it be a good thing in your line of work?

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On 1/9/2021 at 4:57 AM, historyman said:

Firstly, the executive boxes. As a shareholder I would be interested to know the cost of building and installing these boxes and the level of income that has been generated by them. I ask this question as, to be perfectly blunt, they look like a waste of money and stand out as a perfect example of poor decision making by the current board. They are providing something that there clearly isn’t a market for and I wonder how decisions like that can be made. 

That's one for you, as a shareholder to ask at the AGM which I believe will happen in some form at the beginning of next month. My belief is that the money for this project was provided by a Director who is no longer on the Club board. Might be wrong in this, mind you.

Maybe same thought process that got the Hotel built as a revenue generator.

I am aware that it is used regularly during the week as offices for staff........but again, not sure currently how many staff we actually have now following recent furlough activity sadly.

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18 minutes ago, jmthmsn said:

That's one for you, as a shareholder to ask at the AGM which I believe will happen in some form at the beginning of next month. My belief is that the money for this project was provided by a Director who is no longer on the Club board. Might be wrong in this, mind you.

Maybe same thought process that got the Hotel built as a revenue generator.

I am aware that it is used regularly during the week as offices for staff........but again, not sure currently how many staff we actually have now following recent furlough activity sadly.

Heard it was QTS that paid for the "behind windows" boxes, no idea if true or not though

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On 1/9/2021 at 7:41 AM, Souleycouley93 said:

If the club are furloughing staff, making cuts to academy staff and losing 50k or whatever a match day. Surely they will be struggling.

If that is the case an Avenue such as the trust who already have a system to get money into the club surely could go on a massive drive using the reasons stated as a incentive to many fans who are saving £50 a week by no going to football. An admittance of struggle may allow our fans to waken up to it and rally round which in the long run may boost members to trust. 
 

I know many people will be using Killie Tv and many others will be using dodgy streams to watch games. Teams like Dynamo Dresden in Germany are selling virtual tickets at different tiers. 5 euros/ 10 euros . 
 

The 5 may just be a contribution,  Many would pay it just as an Avenue to support the club at a hard time. 
 

Dynamo Dresden are a bigger club obviously but they sold something like 70,000 tickets. No fans were there but it was backed and came from being transparent with fans. I am not sure if it’s viable for people who are season tickets holders and already get the game. But many pay at the gate fans who will be saving minimum £44 a month if they don’t attend home games. If you build a big enough drive and buzz about it and even seen if it was viable or worthwhile. 

This is an idea we could take to the Club, particularly for Cup games.

Thanks for throwing this in to the ring.

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On 1/9/2021 at 8:56 AM, AyrshireCocard said:

Good post. If I'm right here, correct me if I'm wrong, but the executive box was empty during one of our biggest and well attended home games in recent history- home to Rangers Clarkes final game. If we were unable to sell the box out for that game then what chance have we got filling it somewhat at run of the mill games.

Again, post covid, I think this is where the Trust could come in, could there be a raffle with the club each month of who is paying £10 and someone is selected to get in the box for a home game with friends - beats it sitting empty and they can feedback and share thoughts on the experience.

We ran a community hero last year when they had someone on the park for a minute or 2 pre kick off, could we entertain the box for these people if it is empty. I think we need to go above and beyond, especially now.

We'll definitely work with the Hospitality Manager post-covid to look at more attractive packages that suit all pockets. Thanks for the suggestions. 

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On 1/9/2021 at 9:37 AM, Trojan76 said:

Realistically, what are the numbers fan wise and monthly cost wise we would be looking at for fan ownership?

Fan ownership of our Club ain't happening in our lifetime. Billy's proud to  be the owner and is putting his money where his mouth is.

Doesn't mean to say that Cathy & I won't have the occasional conversation with him though.

Seriously though, you never know what is round the corner in Scottish football and in life. At least the Trust has a head start with a seat on the board.

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16 hours ago, jmthmsn said:

Missed this one so wasn't aware I'd given a 'politician's answer'.

The Trust haven't run a poll of it's members on the suitability of Alex Dyer continuing as manager. Cathy is however aware of the cross section of views of the Trust board members.

Members haven't requested we do so .........and, is this really a good way to go when we're currently a Private Limited Company? Would it be a good thing in your line of work?

Well said. This kind of thing (fans thinking they should have a direct role in decisions over firing mangers) is why I would never want to see fan ownership of Kilmarnock.

I will leave it to board (who are playing a blinder in keeping us going as far as I can see) to make that kind of decision and I will just keep supporting the club/team.

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On 1/10/2021 at 10:43 AM, Zorro said:

Sorry if this has been answered already, how many shares do the trust own and if any, how many are proxied?

Shareholding at the end of 2019 was 190,979. Will be meeting with Club's company secretary soon to reconcile this but I'm sure that we are well over 300,000 now depending on what the cut off date is.

A few people have transferred their shareholding to the Trust this year too, including Bobby Fleeting's father, through the family.

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2 hours ago, KillieBus said:

Well said. This kind of thing (fans thinking they should have a direct role in decisions over firing mangers) is why I would never want to see fan ownership of Kilmarnock.

I will leave it to board (who are playing a blinder in keeping us going as far as I can see) to make that kind of decision and I will just keep supporting the club/team.

I think you have fan ownership mixed up with fan operated. I too was concerned about this, and remembered that clown of a club down south voting for who was in the team as well, so I asked about it and had it explained. Owning the majority of the shares in the club does not entitle fans to pick and choose the manager, it doesn't even give anyone any financial benefits (you need 75% for that to kick in). What it does give you is the right to veto any constitutional decisions, as opposed to operational. Non one could sell Rugby Park without the fans say so. No one could put us into administration or fold the club without our say so. The operational side of running the club is completely run by club employees in paid positions, and I was assured that was what the Killie Trust's intention would be, please correct me if I'm wrong Jim Thomson?

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20 hours ago, jmthmsn said:

You obviously have absolutely no faith in the current board, who are currently keeping our Club alive in extremely challenging financial conditions. You are of course entitled to your opinion. Maybe you have business skills/acumen that you could bring to the Trust board and, to the Club via us? The invitation is there.

There is no queue of other, charismatic characters beating down the door to invest the kind of money that is currently being put in. I hate Billy & Phyllis having to do this and I've said this to their faces......but I AM extremely grateful, as I am to the 460 subscribers to our 'Trust in Killie' funding campaign who can afford to go that wee bit extra mile on top of their other financial support to our Club. The Club is absolutely grateful to every Killie fan who is putting their hand in their pocket currently, be it for shop merchandise, shares, blue brick, PPV etc etc. Every single coin piece helps. Support of the Club just now is so important.

The Club will undoubtedly publish a loss at the forthcoming AGM. Imagine what this might look like if they weren't regularly covering some costs. Don't expect our Club board to put out the begging bowl either. Not a good signal to put out for their own businesses I'd have thought. 

I know that you are not a Trust member and I also see that you have no 'Trust in Killie'.

I genuinely hope that you might change your mind.

Thank you for taking the time to answer all of my questions in detail, especially on a Sunday night. 
I am impressed by all the efforts from you and your colleagues, particularly in the attempts to set up supporters groups in secondary schools as recruiting new fans is the only way to stop the long term decline in fan numbers. 
I do still disagree with the board being so limited in size and not having a separate chairman for the sense of good goverence. I would like them to seek additional board members who can bring business expertise as that has not worked well in past. New board members shouldn’t have to pay for the privilege, it’s their skills and experience that they would be bringing to the club. Until that changes I would not join the Trust and contribute more than I do to the club each year but fully understand those who do. 

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1 hour ago, historyman said:

Thank you for taking the time to answer all of my questions in detail, especially on a Sunday night. 
I am impressed by all the efforts from you and your colleagues, particularly in the attempts to set up supporters groups in secondary schools as recruiting new fans is the only way to stop the long term decline in fan numbers. 
I do still disagree with the board being so limited in size and not having a separate chairman for the sense of good goverence. I would like them to seek additional board members who can bring business expertise as that has not worked well in past. New board members shouldn’t have to pay for the privilege, it’s their skills and experience that they would be bringing to the club. Until that changes I would not join the Trust and contribute more than I do to the club each year but fully understand those who do. 

With respect your reasons for not joining the Trust are all out-with the present control of the Trust.....Jim has already stated that the Trust is seeking people with skills, business expertise and experience that would help the Trust and therefore the club, in fact you've put up a good argument for joining the Trust...

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4 minutes ago, Arderkilliesier said:

With respect your reasons for not joining the Trust are all out-with the present control of the Trust.....Jim has already stated that the Trust is seeking people with skills, business expertise and experience that would help the Trust and therefore the club, in fact you've put up a good argument for joining the Trust...

Just the very point I was about to make. ?

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4 hours ago, jmthmsn said:

Shareholding at the end of 2019 was 190,979. Will be meeting with Club's company secretary soon to reconcile this but I'm sure that we are well over 300,000 now depending on what the cut off date is.

A few people have transferred their shareholding to the Trust this year too, including Bobby Fleeting's father, through the family.

Is there an option to proxy the votes to the Trust while personally retaining the share ownership. A number of my shares were originally my grandfather's so I wish to retain them for sentimental reasons.

Although the number of shares held by BB, makes the distribution of the rest largely irrelevant, I personally think it would be a good way for share owning supporters to show support for the Trust and the current board. This would allow the Trust to report its share holding, it's number of votes and the number of shareholders it represents.

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Just now, Kfcinlancashire said:

Is there an option to proxy the votes to the Trust while personally retaining the share ownership. A number of my shares were originally my grandfather's so I wish to retain them for sentimental reasons.

Although the number of shares held by BB, makes the distribution of the rest largely irrelevant, I personally think it would be a good way for share owning supporters to show support for the Trust and the current board. This would allow the Trust to report its share holding, it's number of votes and the number of shareholders it represents.

When the notice for the AGM comes out there will be a proxy form in with it .... that will allow you to give someone else voting rights for your shares.

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On 1/9/2021 at 6:33 PM, Thebigguy68 said:

No one can possibly criticise owners donating their own money. However, I would much rather have charismatic people with a vision and an ability to bring us all together behind this vision even if they didn’t invest a single penny. Leadership and vision beats beats dipping hands in pockets to offset bad business decisions every time. People don’t seem to see or want to see this.

We had charismatic in the form of Bobby Fleeting and we ended up in debt. At least that’s how I remember. BB’s biggest failing is that he isn’t charismatic but he is a good business man and has dipped into his own pocket time after time.

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