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Squad & Realism


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We all know how we got into the current mess and that has been done to death in other threads so I would not advocate revisiting it here.

I think that despite a good start to recruitment, we will be starting 21/22 with an incomplete, under-strength squad and a team that self evidently will have next to no experience of playing with each other.

I just don't understand why so many people on here are still of the mind "we will bounce straight back up" and I worry that those people will turn against the team and the manager when we face the inevitable set backs. I expect these are the same people that were still saying we would "cruise it" in the second leg against Dundee despite a season's worth of evidence to the contrary.

I am still angry and upset that we got relegated but given the s**t we were (and are) in I don't think I am being pessimistic by saying if it takes a couple of seasons to build the base of the club properly, I might be prepared to accept that if we came back stronger.

 

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From most posts I've seen on here and talking to other Killie fans I don't see many people who are expecting we'll go straight back up or are unrealistic.

Seems to me the majority view is there is a definite opportunity to go straight back up but that taking a few seasons is maybe more likely. 

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Can imagine one or 2 thistle , Dunfermline or even Falkirk fans might said same thing years back that they would settle for couple years out of the top league if then came back up as a stronger club….,.

For me it is so vital we get back up in one season one way or another, otherwise the huge financial costs of hanging around in championship would really start to have a major effect throughout our club including the ringfenced for one season player budget, and without some big new financial backing we may face a long wait to get back up again , stronger or otherwise 

Big ask for TW to get a new look team brought in and then playing well so quickly BUT he is a very experienced manager, he does have the biggest budget in this league…….and think he would himself know it’s a one season challenge to get that elusive promotion spot 

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There seems to have been a collective mindset shift in society over lockdown that means you have to be positive about everything, all of the time. It's not just in a football context, but certainly noticed it in certain conversations with fellow Killie fans.

I totally agree with the original poster, we should be under no illusions about the task we face next season.

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Given the likes of Hibs, Hearts, Rangers and Dundee Utd have all been in the Championship within last 5-6 years, we can have no complaints about our level of opposition. The league looks comparatively weak next to other recent seasons.

We will have the biggest player budget in the league, probably by some distance.

There can be no excuse for failing to achieve promotion. It would be a f**kup every bit as big as our relegation.

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5 minutes ago, Fletch said:

Naw, it really shouldn't. They had both Hearts and Hibs who had come down from the Premiership to contend with. This literally could not be more different.

We're in a position where we're actually going to be against Championship level sides every week. If we blow it then we've made a mess of a season where there's no excuses in terms of opposition.

It really should. My point being having the biggest budget does not necessarily equate to success. Anyone who thinks that because we have the biggest budget this will somehow be straightforward is deluding themselves.

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Personnel and being able to create a good winning mentality is important. We should certainly be up there. I’d like to think we have a good chance of going up. We have waited 28 years to end up where we are. 
 

Time to freshen up the structure and staff. We should be a top level club with facilities/budget/fan base. I don’t want us to accept mediocrity because we are now a championship club. Two years ago we were a European club with record points totals. Football changes fast. Good decisions and consistency will get us back to where we belong. 

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13 minutes ago, gjkillie007 said:

It really should. My point being having the biggest budget does not necessarily equate to success. Anyone who thinks that because we have the biggest budget this will somehow be straightforward is deluding themselves.

There's no comparison between that league and this one. There was an era for a while that was more or less an anomaly, the Championship had a load of big clubs after they all had financial issues at the same time. That era is done. If we fail to bounce back it's nothing short of a massive balls up.

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I think it’s vital we go back up this season or risk sinking into mediocrity. The system is set up to cushion the financial blow of relegation for Premiership teams. We’re using that to try and fund a push to go back up. If we make a mess of it then whoever goes down next year has that cushion and we’ve lost the impetus it gives us this season. We have an advantage just now - we can’t throw it away. 

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8 minutes ago, Zorro said:

I’m under no illusions about the task we face and I’m still supremely confident we’ll bounce straight back up. People are vastly overestimating the quality in the championship and seem to think we need a sledgehammer to crack a walnut. 
 

This is going to be a season that requires pragmatism. Some of the players we bring in won’t make much of a contribution and will be shipped back out. Some of the football will be eye-bleedingly bad. We will grind out points at some grounds and drop points at others but come the end of season we will be champions. We will be champions because of the strength and depth of our squad. When the games start coming thick and fast, when teams start picking up injuries, that’s when the difference will be made. 
 

I’ve seen some suggestions TW has to have us top of the league in December or January or he will be a failure, behave. We only need to be top on the last day of the season. It may take more than one transfer window to get the balance right. It may result in a few sleepless nights for our boss, but he will get it right. We need to show patience and we need to stand firm in our support. Knickerwetting won’t help anyone. 

It will relieve the bladder though. Preferable to bed wetting in the January transfer window.

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If we fail to go up at the 1st attempt with the biggest budget in the league and with what should be the best squad there will be no place for the manager to hid.He will be out the door and someone else will be brought in.Wright would not be a anywhere near Killie if we were a championship team and I expect him to have a squad capable of getting us back to the premiership.Best record of any manager in the league by far.I every confidence he is the man to do the business 

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46 minutes ago, Fletch said:

Naw, it really shouldn't. They had both Hearts and Hibs who had come down from the Premiership to contend with. This literally could not be more different.

We're in a position where we're actually going to be against Championship level sides every week. If we blow it then we've made a mess of a season where there's no excuses in terms of opposition.

Spot on. Not for a moment saying we will “ bounce straight back” but there aren’t any of the so called big teams that will have a vastly superior budget compared to the rest so it should be an evenly contested division. 
 

We should have every right to be positive that we will be one of the sides in the mix when the newly assembled squad starts to gel. Bring it on! 

 

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The single worst thing we can do as a club or fanbase is accept our position in this league. Do I expect to win this league by 25 points? No. Will we lose matches and struggle some weeks? yes.  Do I expect us to win this league given the level of competition and our budget? Absolutely.

The club in Scotland most comparable to us in terms of the last 30 years of history and budget is Motherwell. If they'd gone down 95% of folk on here would be backing them to romp that league. With no Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd or even Dundee - we are the big fish here. Doesn't sit well but it's objectively the truth. Of course if we stay down for 3/4 years we'll be back in Dunfermline/Partick territory. This season is easily our best chance to make sure we don't let that happen. 

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We are most definitely favourites this season due to budget and stature as a club. 
clubs business has been decent so far but now we need to start adding quality and in particular a top keeper cb and striker.

if Burke signs aswell then we have the makings of a good squad.


I fancy the start of the season will be a bit of a slog due to a brand new team gelling and the other teams will be looking at us as a target.

 Hopefully as season goes on we can start expressing ourselves. Main thing is to be able to grind out results which is one of the main reasons we’re down here. If we were able to hold on against the Livingstons, st Johnstone’s, st mirrens etc we’d have been safe

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46 minutes ago, Zorro said:

I’m under no illusions about the task we face and I’m still supremely confident we’ll bounce straight back up. People are vastly overestimating the quality in the championship and seem to think we need a sledgehammer to crack a walnut. 
 

This is going to be a season that requires pragmatism. Some of the players we bring in won’t make much of a contribution and will be shipped back out. Some of the football will be eye-bleedingly bad. We will grind out points at some grounds and drop points at others but come the end of season we will be champions. We will be champions because of the strength and depth of our squad. When the games start coming thick and fast, when teams start picking up injuries, that’s when the difference will be made. 
 

I’ve seen some suggestions TW has to have us top of the league in December or January or he will be a failure, behave. We only need to be top on the last day of the season. It may take more than one transfer window to get the balance right. It may result in a few sleepless nights for our boss, but he will get it right. We need to show patience and we need to stand firm in our support. Knickerwetting won’t help anyone. 

This!

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The only thing we have to hold onto as supporters is our blind optimism that our new team can win the league this year and surely the reality of the possibility that we won't is at the back of our minds just now.

Hopefully the team TW is assembling will be good enough to achieve what we all want back up in one go and at the  expense of dundee going in the opposite direction with Hamilton beating St. Mirren in the play offs and the double whammy of getting 3 plastic fantastics back in the top league lets believe!

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in 1989 reality hit when we lost at Hampden to Queens Park and we were then in 38 / 38 position in Scottish football.  We need to learn form past experience. Tommy Burns dragged us by the scruff of the neck out of that league and eventually to the top division again.

While the recruitment so far looks solid,  we will have setbacks - be prepared for these.

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Who does the Forumites have as favourites to win the league, and why?

Personally of all the seasons to get relegated, we at least got our timing right with one thing! No city clubs, no recently relegated and obvious Prem teams in a false position, nobody unlucky not to go up last season due to a dodgy play off decision or whatever.

We have the biggest playing budget so more leeway to replace injured or underperforming players come January, and run with a bigger core squad than most others.

There’s also a good chance home fans (at least) will return to stadiums and possibly away too as the season goes on. We will have the biggest support in the league or thereabouts, home and away which helps our players.

This is by far the best season to have a crack at bouncing back up, balanced against the debit column of starting with a completely new squad bar a couple of positions, a lack of managerial experience operating at this level, and a potential period of adjustment to our new found surroundings.

So on all the available evidence, I am confident but respectful we have a very good chance of promotion via winning the league at our first run at it, but mindful the cream may not rise to the top until well into the season. 

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