killie1961 Posted June 22, 2021 Report Share Posted June 22, 2021 21 minutes ago, Travis said: Next step for us probably isn’t getting out of tournament groups; it’s consistently becoming a presence at tournaments again so that it becomes the norm and avoids the insane amount of expectation when we do finally make it. A very long 23 years is too much. We should be looking to Belgium, Sweden, Denmark, Croatia, even Wales, and building a solid, consistent base which allows the occasional stars to come through and shine. Clarke is dead right to switch the focus to the World Cup qualifiers right away. The group needs to stick together, build that club mentality, make players want to be a part of it again and to feel the pride and passion of a nation. Get to the World Cup and build from there, and help lift the game. How do we fix the decades of decline though? We’ve a long way to go, and we’re still limbered with an antiquated SFA which is run like a local bowling club or golf club for old men in blazers. And our club competitions are run for the benefit of two clubs. Until we move on from that, we’re hampering ourselves from the off. Clarke deserves praise for kicking us on and making us believe, but the game as a whole needs to be about finding and nurturing young talent rather than a youth system designed to massage the egos of aged wannabes and men with loud voices; we need a serious rethink on goalkeeping; and we need to support youth systems at clubs to positively drive young Scottish players into the game. We’re not far off. We have a good manager, good players and you’d like to think we have an appetite for more. TbH we are just not good enough at this level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted June 22, 2021 Report Share Posted June 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, killie1961 said: TbH we are just not good enough at this level. I really don’t agree. That Scotland squad is plenty good enough at this level, but needs to get into the habit of sticking in there, qualifying, turning up and taking part. The Scandinavian nations do it, Wales does it, Croatia does it. There’s no reason at all this squad shouldn’t be qualifying regularly over the next 10 years, which in itself generates more interest and players. We need to learn nuance - we’re a brutal nation for instantly thinking we’re either the worst or the best. We need to be comfortable being somewhere in between. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killie1961 Posted June 22, 2021 Report Share Posted June 22, 2021 Just now, Travis said: I really don’t agree. That Scotland squad is plenty good enough at this level, but needs to get into the habit of sticking in there, qualifying, turning up and taking part. The Scandinavian nations do it, Wales does it, Croatia does it. There’s no reason at all this squad shouldn’t be qualifying regularly over the next 10 years, which in itself generates more interest and players. We need to learn nuance - we’re a brutal nation for instantly thinking we’re either the worst or the best. We need to be comfortable being somewhere in between. Did you hear the scathing comments made by Graham Souness and backed up by the czech manager that scotland play football in a bye gone area ie hoofball backed up by punting the ball up to lyndon dykes who should be no where near a Scotland team its hard to disagree. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudger Posted June 22, 2021 Report Share Posted June 22, 2021 The constant long ball up the park was really frustrating to watch. We did ok but generally it’s just a lot of huff and puff from Scotland. Our creativity and consistent goal threat is just not there, we have a few tidy players but no real game changers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangodog Posted June 22, 2021 Report Share Posted June 22, 2021 The positive is that we have young players coming through who will learn from this experience. We don't have any yet that excel in the goalkeeping and striking positions. One can keep you in the game and the other can win the game for you. Marshall and Gordon are OK but that's it and Dykes and Adams are similarly average at this level. Gilmour is our brightest prospect but he needs to play more first-team football than Chelsea are currently giving him. Qualification for the next World Cup isn't going to be easy, Austria and Denmark away will be difficult fixtures. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killie lad Posted June 22, 2021 Report Share Posted June 22, 2021 1 hour ago, skygod said: Interview with Clarke typifies the attitude: ”How proud were you of the players tonight?” “How much has the squad developed?” ”Can the way they played at Wembley and tonight give them a building block?” “How determined does it make you to return to the big stage?” Might as well have asked him what he had for his tea. In other countries the coach would be grilled about tactical matters. We do interviews out of Good Morning Britain. The fact we've been celebrating a 0-0 draw like we won the competition sums us up, absolutely tinpot nation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayD Posted June 22, 2021 Report Share Posted June 22, 2021 42 minutes ago, killie1961 said: Did you hear the scathing comments made by Graham Souness and backed up by the czech manager that scotland play football in a bye gone area ie hoofball backed up by punting the ball up to lyndon dykes who should be no where near a Scotland team its hard to disagree. This is a huge part of it too. We have the aggression, we have the effort, we fly into tackles and aw that, but then I watch how relaxed and confident Croatia were in possession. Touch, move, touch, move, quick diagonal and they were in dangerous areas... so much movement off the ball, dragging us in every direction. When they did lose it, look how quickly they closed us down and regained possession, or at least forced us to lump it long and into those 50/50 2nd ball areas. Glimmer of hope, we do seem to have a few younger players who take it as seriously as they should, want to improve, want to learn, and vitally important... the mental strength and tactical nous required to compete at this level. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo's Ashes Posted June 22, 2021 Report Share Posted June 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Travis said: By random chance our best players have developed in defensive positions while Wales and Croatia have struck gold with top players in attacking positions. Wales are a Bale and a Ramsey away from being very weak. They add the cutting edge, while all our top players are further back. Same with Modric for Croatia. Football is more like basketball than is acknowledged. An individual world class forward player can turn a mediocre team into a decent team. I don't care what Malcolm Gladwell says. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casual observer Posted June 22, 2021 Report Share Posted June 22, 2021 I’m more positive now based on the quality of the squad than I’ve been for many years. We are still developing and unfortunately don’t yet have experience of tournament football and a settled enough first team to have consistent patterns of play. Who’d have thought a few months ago Grant Hanley going off would have weakened us? Gilmour emerges from the potential column to central figure and Patterson may follow him assuming he plays regular football. Its important the players & Clarke feel the pain and frustration of this and come back stronger straight away - second place in the WC group is achievable. I’d personally have McTominay in midfield beside Gilmour as a building block. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted June 22, 2021 Report Share Posted June 22, 2021 Oh well, back to the old default position of supporting whoever England are playing. ? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetfitter Posted June 22, 2021 Report Share Posted June 22, 2021 We lack strikers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted June 22, 2021 Report Share Posted June 22, 2021 Just now, casual observer said: I’m more positive now based on the quality of the squad than I’ve been for many years. We are still developing and unfortunately don’t yet have experience of tournament football and a settled enough first team to have consistent patterns of play. We've been "developing" since I started watching fitba in the 1960s. It seems like a process without end or outcome. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo's Ashes Posted June 22, 2021 Report Share Posted June 22, 2021 2 hours ago, piffer said: I’m not saying he wasn’t a great player I just don’t think he was at that very top level of those I listed. I think Scholes was as good as Xavi and Iniesta. Nobody was as good as Zidane. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo's Ashes Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 4 hours ago, gdevoy said: We've been "developing" since I started watching fitba in the 1960s. It seems like a process without end or outcome. When do we get the report from Ernie Walker's think tank? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhamkillieken Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 none of our midfielders are the star where they play in the EPL, they all get it and give it to someone better than them! it was like when we used to get the ball then give to fletcher because he was at man u! all he wanted to do was give it straight back, not turn his man and stride forward. need a striker, play maker, winger and goalie. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraz65 Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 33 minutes ago, Bhamkillieken said: none of our midfielders are the star where they play in the EPL, they all get it and give it to someone better than them! it was like when we used to get the ball then give to fletcher because he was at man u! all he wanted to do was give it straight back, not turn his man and stride forward. need a striker, play maker, winger and goalie. I think that we've got playmaker covered for the next 10-15 years fortunately. Marshall still has a few years left and he rarely lets us down. Hopefully Ryan Fraser can get back to some sort of form as he's as good a wide player as we've had in recent years. We desperately need a 5 goal per campaign striker though. It should be Leigh Griffiths but he's wasted his career. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrogate Peter Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 8 hours ago, Travis said: I really don’t agree. That Scotland squad is plenty good enough at this level, but needs to get into the habit of sticking in there, qualifying, turning up and taking part. The Scandinavian nations do it, Wales does it, Croatia does it. There’s no reason at all this squad shouldn’t be qualifying regularly over the next 10 years, which in itself generates more interest and players. We need to learn nuance - we’re a brutal nation for instantly thinking we’re either the worst or the best. We need to be comfortable being somewhere in between. 'Not too up when you win; not too down when you lose' is the mantra all the top managers follow. Then pick yourself up and dust yourself down gor the next one which is pretty much what Steve Clarke said! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prahakillie Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 8 hours ago, killie1961 said: Did you hear the scathing comments made by Graham Souness and backed up by the czech manager that scotland play football in a bye gone area ie hoofball backed up by punting the ball up to lyndon dykes who should be no where near a Scotland team its hard to disagree. Souness was just playing up to the Ibrox faithful in slagging Clarke, replace O'Donnell with Patterson etc as if that would be the solution to all our problems. Hard to disagree about Dykes but I think the long ball becomes the easy and lazy option when you are under pressure like last night. We have played more possession and better football before. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 15 minutes ago, Prahakillie said: Souness was just playing up to the Ibrox faithful in slagging Clarke, replace O'Donnell with Patterson etc as if that would be the solution to all our problems. Most of these fkn pundits would be as well saying "if only a protestant was managing Scotland" because basically it is what they mean. Every day I think I can't hate SevCo any more but every day sadly I do hate them more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo's Ashes Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Prahakillie said: Souness was just playing up to the Ibrox faithful in slagging Clarke, replace O'Donnell with Patterson etc as if that would be the solution to all our problems. Hard to disagree about Dykes but I think the long ball becomes the easy and lazy option when you are under pressure like last night. We have played more possession and better football before. Souness was a failure as a manager unless he had ten times the budget of the other clubs. He even managed to ruin Liverpool and Bobby Robson's Newcastle. You could count on one hand the number of good games he had for Scotland. The long ball isn't a tactic. It's what happens when you're outplayed by better opposition and can't keep possession. Edited June 23, 2021 by Angelo's Ashes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 Agree - if we "blew" this group at all we blew it by pissing away two soft goals against Czech and not scoring when on top in spells during first two games. Last night we were put to the sword by a clearly better team with an outstanding creative player and while I think Gilmour was sorely missed I am not sure the result would have transformed from a defeat into a win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 9 hours ago, killie1961 said: Did you hear the scathing comments made by Graham Souness and backed up by the czech manager that scotland play football in a bye gone area ie hoofball backed up by punting the ball up to lyndon dykes who should be no where near a Scotland team its hard to disagree. We didn't play like that against England and I don't think we did it by choice against Croatia. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLC Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 With hindsight, the Czech game was the big one. They are not a great team and I doubt they’ll go any further in the tournament. We created plenty that day but couldn’t score and then gave them two easy goals. Clarke hasn’t got everything right this tournament, but last night he had to beat World Cup finalists with guys like McKenna, O’Donnell and Dykes. It was just too much of an ask for this team. Croatia are still a quality team and full of experience of playing in pressure games like last night. Other than a wobble for 5 minutes after we scored, they played the game superbly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmonty3 Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 11 hours ago, Angelo's Ashes said: We've potentially got a half decent team if we can build it around Gilmour. Hopefully we haven't missed out chance of qualifying for the World Cup. I think that the achievements of this side have been exaggerated slightly. With a 24 team Euros we would probably have qualified in 2000, 2004 and 2008. We haven't reached the last 16 since 1992. We were in the last 8 in 1992. An achievement that gets massively overlooked. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker71 Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) 49 minutes ago, TLC said: With hindsight, the Czech game was the big one. They are not a great team and I doubt they’ll go any further in the tournament. We created plenty that day but couldn’t score and then gave them two easy goals. Clarke hasn’t got everything right this tournament, but last night he had to beat World Cup finalists with guys like McKenna, O’Donnell and Dykes. It was just too much of an ask for this team. Croatia are still a quality team and full of experience of playing in pressure games like last night. Other than a wobble for 5 minutes after we scored, they played the game superbly. Mcginn guilty of missing 3 good chances at this level, 2 of them last night, possibky 3 if you count his header too. Dyke at least 2 as well. Those go in and we dont lose both games. We created chances in ALL of rhe games, but didnt take them Edited June 23, 2021 by Beaker71 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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