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Squad 21/22 As it Stands


hindes57

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38 minutes ago, Zorro said:

Have you ever watched Chariots of Fire? After losing a race to Eric Liddell, the English sprinter Harold Abrahams highlights that he glanced to see where Liddell was and that this is a fatal mistake in a race. Eyes on the prize guys and let the opposition glance to see where we are. 

Neither of these two great runners would adopt the mentality of expecting to stroll a race and neither should we. 

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7 minutes ago, Wrangodog said:

Neither of these two great runners would adopt the mentality of expecting to stroll a race and neither should we. 

Neither of these two great runners would have been great runners if they’d spent all their time worrying about their opponents. They were great runners because of a confidence in their own abilities, a singleminded belief that they would win, a steely determination to work hard and improve, and the focus to see it through. These are the traits of champions and it’s what we should be looking for this season. As the great philosopher Andrew Eldritch noted on meeting goals “ I don’t know why you gotta be so undemanding. I want more”. 

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50 minutes ago, Wrangodog said:

Neither of these two great runners would adopt the mentality of expecting to stroll a race and neither should we. 

I agree. I don’t understand how we can think we will stroll the league when we don’t know the majority of our new players and how they will play together. People must have short memories from all the good signings we were supposed to have made last year. 

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33 minutes ago, Zorro said:

Neither of these two great runners would have been great runners if they’d spent all their time worrying about their opponents. They were great runners because of a confidence in their own abilities, a singleminded belief that they would win, a steely determination to work hard and improve, and the focus to see it through. These are the traits of champions and it’s what we should be looking for this season. As the great philosopher Andrew Eldritch noted on meeting goals “ I don’t know why you gotta be so undemanding. I want more”. 

There's a difference between worrying about your opponents and expecting a difficult test of your abilities.

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3 minutes ago, historyman said:

I agree. I don’t understand how we can think we will stroll the league when we don’t know the majority of our new players and how they will play together. People must have short memories from all the good signings we were supposed to have made last year. 

Really?

I think the general consensus last year was we needed a proper goalkeeper, that Haunstrup and McGowan looked like decent additions but that Pinnock didn't inspire confidence and we had no strikers to score goals. Other than the aforementioned two and Tish - I can't recall many people being as happy with the business as this year.

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40 minutes ago, Cill Mheàrnaig said:

I think the general consensus last year was we needed a proper goalkeeper, that Haunstrup and McGowan looked like decent additions but that Pinnock didn't inspire confidence and we had no strikers to score goals. Other than the aforementioned two and Tish - I can't recall many people being as happy with the business as this year.

You can go back and check the thread but my recollection is that most people were very satisfied with the signings.

Eastwood and Rogers; McGowan, Haunstrup, Rossi and Dikamona; Mulumbu and Tshibola; Whitehall and Pinnock.

We had Brophy and Kabamba to score goals - so we thought at the time - with Whitehall as a (very) wild card.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Wrangodog said:

There's a difference between worrying about your opponents and expecting a difficult test of your abilities.

Expecting a difficult test from something you have no knowledge about, is like worrying about what may be lurking in the shadows. It’s a complete waste of energy.  It’s a weak league, with weak teams. We will stroll it. 
 

I have no doubt this squad is more capable of winning games that last seasons. I have no doubt that if TW had been appointed earlier, the lack of goals, the defensive frailties and the goalkeeping position would have been addressed. I have no doubt we contributed more to our own downfall than Dundee did. And I have no doubt that with them gone we will stroll the league. Worry about Hamilton, ICT or Dunfermline? Give me a break. 

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53 minutes ago, skygod said:

You can go back and check the thread but my recollection is that most people were very satisfied with the signings.

Eastwood and Rogers; McGowan, Haunstrup, Rossi and Dikamona; Mulumbu and Tshibola; Whitehall and Pinnock.

We had Brophy and Kabamba to score goals - so we thought at the time - with Whitehall as a (very) wild card.

 

 

This years team would comfortably beat last seasons. However it was considered heresy to criticise anyone who had played or worked for SC. Loyalty has been our downfall. 

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1 hour ago, historyman said:

I agree. I don’t understand how we can think we will stroll the league when we don’t know the majority of our new players and how they will play together. People must have short memories from all the good signings we were supposed to have made last year. 

I think Zorro has it mostly correct though a bit OTT using " stroll it " what he has TOTALLY correct is that the management team should drum it into the squad that this is the least we expect of each and every one of them :

" confidence in their own abilities, a singleminded belief that they would win, a steely determination to work hard and improve, and the focus to see it through. These are the traits of champions and it’s what we should be looking for this season."

 

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33 minutes ago, Zorro said:

This years team would comfortably beat last seasons. However it was considered heresy to criticise anyone who had played or worked for SC. Loyalty has been our downfall. 

They haven't played a competitive fixture yet. There's no basis yet for making any such claims. How often have we seen the gap between what a team looks like on paper and how they actually perform? 

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1 hour ago, Zorro said:

Expecting a difficult test from something you have no knowledge about, is like worrying about what may be lurking in the shadows. It’s a complete waste of energy.  It’s a weak league, with weak teams. We will stroll it. 
 

I have no doubt this squad is more capable of winning games that last seasons. I have no doubt that if TW had been appointed earlier, the lack of goals, the defensive frailties and the goalkeeping position would have been addressed. I have no doubt we contributed more to our own downfall than Dundee did. And I have no doubt that with them gone we will stroll the league. Worry about Hamilton, ICT or Dunfermline? Give me a break. 

Confidence verging on arrogance. It certainly won't be a stroll, Hearts strolled it last year but their budget would be 4 or 5 times ours. I expect it to be fairly competitive, but I reckon we will come out on top and win the league.

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5 minutes ago, Harrogate Peter said:

Don't agree with the Athletics analogy. In that sport if you run faster/ jumper higher or throw further you win. There's nothing you're opponents can do to prevent it.

Football isn't like that. What the opposition are doing or capable of is important.

To my mind that's one of the things that makes it the better sport!

It’s almost as if you’ve ignored that if we pass better, score more, defend better than our opponents there’s nothing they can do either. That’s why the best teams tend to win the vast majority of their games. They don’t spend their days fretting about who the opposition are signing. 

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1 minute ago, Skora11 said:

Confidence verging on arrogance. It certainly won't be a stroll, Hearts strolled it last year but their budget would be 4 or 5 times ours. I expect it to be fairly competitive, but I reckon we will come out on top and win the league.

Hearts were so far in front they were able to take their foot of the gas and consequently ended up dropping points. Otherwise the very poor Hearts side which was relegated the year before would have wrapped up the league much earlier and by a greater margin. 

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3 minutes ago, Zorro said:

It’s almost as if you’ve ignored that if we pass better, score more, defend better than our opponents there’s nothing they can do either. That’s why the best teams tend to win the vast majority of their games. They don’t spend their days fretting about who the opposition are signing. 

I agree with this. Positivity breeds Positivity.

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18 minutes ago, Zorro said:

It’s almost as if you’ve ignored that if we pass better, score more, defend better than our opponents there’s nothing they can do either. That’s why the best teams tend to win the vast majority of their games. They don’t spend their days fretting about who the opposition are signing. 

I'm not fretting about who other teams are signing or denying that the best team usually wins a game of football.

I was just arguing that how the opposition sets up and is organised has far more impact on whether we win or not than it does in Athletics.

As others have said we don't know how good our present squad is or those of the opposition. I can't see that an assumption that we will stroll this league is helpful at this stage.

I just can't see what it's based on though, of course, I'd be delighted if we did.

 

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51 minutes ago, Harrogate Peter said:

Don't agree with the Athletics analogy. In that sport if you run faster/ jumper higher or throw further you win. There's nothing you're opponents can do to prevent it.

But durelt if you defend better than their strikers can score, tackle better and pass better than rheir midfieldera can and score more than their defenders can stop you win.  Yes its simplistic, but football is a simple game.

51 minutes ago, Harrogate Peter said:

Football isn't like that. What the opposition are doing or capable of is important.

See above

51 minutes ago, Harrogate Peter said:

To my mind that's one of the things that makes it the better sport!

Again see above.  Kost of us wouldve been happy with the squad we have now, kast year.  Imo if we had we.would comfortably still be a premiership team.  In fact if we had had TW sooner we would still be a oremiershio team as he wouldve ripped the side apart in the Jan window.

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2 hours ago, skygod said:

You can go back and check the thread but my recollection is that most people were very satisfied with the signings.

Eastwood and Rogers; McGowan, Haunstrup, Rossi and Dikamona; Mulumbu and Tshibola; Whitehall and Pinnock.

We had Brophy and Kabamba to score goals - so we thought at the time - with Whitehall as a (very) wild card.

 

 

That's my recollection.

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1 hour ago, Harrogate Peter said:

I'm not fretting about who other teams are signing or denying that the best team usually wins a game of football.

I was just arguing that how the opposition sets up and is organised has far more impact on whether we win or not than it does in Athletics.

As others have said we don't know how good our present squad is or those of the opposition. I can't see that an assumption that we will stroll this league is helpful at this stage.

I just can't see what it's based on though, of course, I'd be delighted if we did.

 

You’re argument boils down to “if an athlete does skill A, B or C better than the other athletes, he wins”. I’m saying exactly the same but I’ve changed athlete for team. How a team sets up against us, is no different from how a 1500m runner might try to keep the pace slow against a better runner, knowing he has a better sprint finish than his opponent. However if the better runner runs his own race, he wins. So this leaves me in a position where I’m not sure what point you’re trying to argue. 

I also refute the allegation I’m making assumptions. The standard of the league isn’t an unknown quantity. The standard of player our opponents have at their disposal isn’t an unknown quantity. The standard of manager we’re up against isn’t an unknown quantity. We just simply have more quality in each area. That’s not arrogant, it’s a simple fact. We run our own race, we win. But we should also be aiming for a new PB while we’re at it. 

Edited by Zorro
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5 hours ago, Cill Mheàrnaig said:

Really?

I think the general consensus last year was we needed a proper goalkeeper, that Haunstrup and McGowan looked like decent additions but that Pinnock didn't inspire confidence and we had no strikers to score goals. Other than the aforementioned two and Tish - I can't recall many people being as happy with the business as this year.

Not correct. Take a took at last years posts around this time. Dyer and Fowler were widely praised for their signings and for getting us out a hole with the Bachmann mess up. 

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5 hours ago, skygod said:

You can go back and check the thread but my recollection is that most people were very satisfied with the signings.

Eastwood and Rogers; McGowan, Haunstrup, Rossi and Dikamona; Mulumbu and Tshibola; Whitehall and Pinnock.

We had Brophy and Kabamba to score goals - so we thought at the time - with Whitehall as a (very) wild card.

 

 

That’s how I remember it and I remember getting a fair bit but of criticism that we were taking a big gamble with the goalie situation. One that didn’t pay off and amazingly one they didn’t try to fix in January. 
We appear to be in a better position position this year and we are are  certainly in a poorer league but I wouldn’t take anything for granted without a game played.

Edited by historyman
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1 hour ago, Zorro said:

The standard of the league isn’t an unknown quantity. The standard of player our opponents have at their disposal isn’t an unknown quantity. The standard of manager we’re up against isn’t an unknown quantity. We just simply have more quality in each area. That’s not arrogant, it’s a simple fact. We run our own race, we win. But we should also be aiming for a new PB while we’re at it. 

I like the cut of your jib... mon the Killie :hurrah:

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5 hours ago, Zorro said:

You’re argument boils down to “if an athlete does skill A, B or C better than the other athletes, he wins”. I’m saying exactly the same but I’ve changed athlete for team. How a team sets up against us, is no different from how a 1500m runner might try to keep the pace slow against a better runner, knowing he has a better sprint finish than his opponent. However if the better runner runs his own race, he wins. So this leaves me in a position where I’m not sure what point you’re trying to argue. 

I also refute the allegation I’m making assumptions. The standard of the league isn’t an unknown quantity. The standard of player our opponents have at their disposal isn’t an unknown quantity. The standard of manager we’re up against isn’t an unknown quantity. We just simply have more quality in each area. That’s not arrogant, it’s a simple fact. We run our own race, we win. But we should also be aiming for a new PB while we’re at it. 

OK Zorro. It's definitely high time we won a league (any league!) again!

Still saying the fact you can't (legally) leg a 400 metre competitor up means in football usually have to worry about opposition  more in a football than Athletics.

I hope the confidence folk are showing is justified but it seems premature to me!

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6 hours ago, historyman said:

That’s how I remember it and I remember getting a fair bit but of criticism that we were taking a big gamble with the goalie situation. One that didn’t pay off and amazingly one they didn’t try to fix in January. 
We appear to be in a better position position this year and we are are  certainly in a poorer league but I wouldn’t take anything for granted without a game played.

My recolection is that most peopl;e were quite positive about the squad before the league started. Certainly nobody predicted it was of such poor quality that we would be in danger of relegation.

Then it became the poor management of Dyer that was the problem as the bad results flowed in.

Then focus only really turned ot how crap the squad was when TW took over.

Edited by gdevoy
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