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Ineligible player hearing


skygod

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1 hour ago, Scouser2 said:

with 3 games left to play and points tally of other clubs, we are still favourites to qualify from this group, if we can't then more serious questions need asked 

 

 

I don’t think we’ll win all three games based on what I watched on Saturday. We have a lot of ‘gelling ‘ to do before those players will be a team and that supposes they are all up to scratch- which again based on watching on Saturday at close quarters I have my doubts about.

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7 minutes ago, KillieDIV said:

The clubs are sent an up to date version of that document, it just hasn't appeared on the website yet. 

And I'd be expecting the club secretary to be spending the full day on the phone to the SFA double checking every player from now on. 

That sounds like a complete waste of their time, the information was there for everyone to see but the person responsible didn't see it.  Keeping a record of each player's suspensions on our books and cross-checking with the SFA's list of suspensions should be sufficient, also checking that new signings don't have any outstanding suspensions. 

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1 hour ago, Zorro said:

We’ve missed one suspension in how many years? Hardly the crime of the century. 
 

I’ll be honest I’m getting some serious Govanesque “We Deserve Better” type vibes from attitudes towards nearly everything the club does at the moment. It’s not a good look. 

One is one too many for a professional football club!

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1 hour ago, Dan1el said:

I'm not saying she's in the wrong for keeping the manager in the job too long, I'm showing that the amateur running of the club and lack of responsibility is evident throughout, and that will no doubt lead to further errors down the line.

Pat on the back and learn their lesson, again is exactly why were in the Championship, some fans seem quite willing to view the club as a charity and ach their doing their best, when we're a business

Id have a wee bit more respect for this point of view if folk had been more vocal when MJ was running the club. However folk sat like church mice as we were asset stripped, and watched our groundsmen out with kettles trying to avoid fines for frozen pitches. Flooded toilets and hospitality, a rigged ballot, a rigged halftime draw, huns in the home end, bring your own DJ…the naughty list goes on and on. That was real amateur hour and night and day from how things are run now. A bit of perspective is required because two top six finishes shouldn’t give us the levels of entitlement on display on this thread. 

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5 hours ago, Wee_Eck1979 said:

Players come from all over the world, such a system is simply not feasible.

You sign a new player, while registering him it's a simple additional check at the time to see if he has any outstanding suspension to serve. It's not rocket science FFS. If the daily record journo can check for ALL the games that day and come up with a comprehensive list how difficult is it for a club secretary to do it with our own players? Amateurs!

How is it relevant where a player comes from? Armstrong got suspended in the Scottish League Cup, so his suspension is for the Scottish League Cup. If we signed a guy from the Polish 2nd Division then any prior suspensions are of no concern to us unless we plan to actually compete in Polish league football.

Not only is it feasible, It really would be a simple system to build that triggers an e-mail every week to let you know your upcoming suspensions etc.

However, not an excuse. This has been an embarrassing balls up for what should have been an easy check.

Edited by Fletch
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4 hours ago, Wee_Eck1979 said:

By implementing this system you give an excuse for missing a suspension, the "I thought he had played in Scotland and already had a reg number".

The system is fine as it is no point trying to fix an issue that doesn't exist just to give someone (probably on a decent wage may I add) an easier job.

"The system is fine as it is" is the kind of attitude that permeates through Scottish football. It's a big part of why it's such a shambles. Automation if suspension notices would be simple to implement so why not try and improve? It's irrelevant to the situation we are in, which is totally by our own hand, but there's no reason not to improve almost every single facet of Scottish football.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Wee_Eck1979 said:

Players come from all over the world, such a system is simply not feasible.

You sign a new player, while registering him it's a simple additional check at the time to see if he has any outstanding suspension to serve. It's not rocket science FFS. If the daily record journo can check for ALL the games that day and come up with a comprehensive list how difficult is it for a club secretary to do it with our own players? Amateurs!

Do you really think that the Daily Record has someone on the staff checking which players are suspended each week. 

I certainly do not since only 1 Killie player is mentioned as being unavailable due to suspension. The info therefore may NOT have came from the SFA web site.

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4 hours ago, Scouser2 said:

with 3 games left to play and points tally of other clubs, we are still favourites to qualify from this group, if we can't then more serious questions need asked 

 

 

Based on what I saw last Saturday at EK, I would say our qualification from the group right now is far from certain. There is clearly a lot of work to do for the team to gel and other clubs will be going out of their way to make it difficult.

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3 hours ago, Zorro said:

More than one professional club being punished for it demonstrates that it’s a systems error rather than an issue with how our club is run. 

You may be right,wonder how other countries differ with notification of clubs

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4 hours ago, SaucyJackPirate said:

"The system is fine as it is" is the kind of attitude that permeates through Scottish football. It's a big part of why it's such a shambles. Automation if suspension notices would be simple to implement so why not try and improve? It's irrelevant to the situation we are in, which is totally by our own hand, but there's no reason not to improve almost every single facet of Scottish football.

 

 

It would be an afternoons work for a web developer to build a simple website where a teem sheet is input 1 hour before kick off and a simple check performed against the database that the suspensions are maintained in could output a big red warning that a player in your line up is suspended. A bit more work and integration and you'd even be able to prevent unregistered (and therefore ineligible) players from being submitted too.

 

but then where would the SFA get their fund for the office xmas night out if not for fines for things like this.....

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27 minutes ago, gordon4418 said:

It would be an afternoons work for a web developer to build a simple website where a teem sheet is input 1 hour before kick off and a simple check performed against the database that the suspensions are maintained in could output a big red warning that a player in your line up is suspended. A bit more work and integration and you'd even be able to prevent unregistered (and therefore ineligible) players from being submitted too.

 

but then where would the SFA get their fund for the office xmas night out if not for fines for things like this.....

I believe the SFA are looking into using carrier pigeons to notify clubs of upcoming suspensions. Apparently having the lists carved into great stone tablets is no longer considered cost effective. 

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33 minutes ago, gordon4418 said:

It would be an afternoons work for a web developer to build a simple website where a teem sheet is input 1 hour before kick off and a simple check performed against the database that the suspensions are maintained in could output a big red warning that a player in your line up is suspended. A bit more work and integration and you'd even be able to prevent unregistered (and therefore ineligible) players from being submitted too.

 

but then where would the SFA get their fund for the office xmas night out if not for fines for things like this.....

Is this not spoon feeding the clubs who in our case are full time and have a full time role that involves checking such matters? Amateur and semi professional clubs have staff in some cases volunteers that are able to do this. 

A list is created that clearly indicates who is suspended and as has been well documented, if a newspaper journalist can track the information down for a game preview then there are no excuses why our Secretary can’t have done so.

Was the individual on holiday in the lead up to the match? If so it should have been done beforehand as the information was available. 

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13 minutes ago, Pompey Repatriated said:

One thing I've noticed is that the SFA are very quick to pick up on breaches, but they're not exactly going out of there way to assist clubs in the first place. 

They should be there too help clubs, not punish them

. I believe the registrations department at the SFA are struggling to cope with the amount notifications from clubs to register new players at the moment .To the point that there not answering phone calls so they can try to cope with the back log.

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23 minutes ago, FanWithaTypewritter said:

Is this not spoon feeding the clubs who in our case are full time and have a full time role that involves checking such matters? Amateur and semi professional clubs have staff in some cases volunteers that are able to do this. 

A list is created that clearly indicates who is suspended and as has been well documented, if a newspaper journalist can track the information down for a game preview then there are no excuses why our Secretary can’t have done so.

Was the individual on holiday in the lead up to the match? If so it should have been done beforehand as the information was available. 

Spoon feeding or just streamlining a process, doesn't really matter. The SFA hold all the data already, it's actually surprising that the alerts don't exist already.

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1 hour ago, FanWithaTypewritter said:

Is this not spoon feeding the clubs who in our case are full time and have a full time role that involves checking such matters? Amateur and semi professional clubs have staff in some cases volunteers that are able to do this. 

A list is created that clearly indicates who is suspended and as has been well documented, if a newspaper journalist can track the information down for a game preview then there are no excuses why our Secretary can’t have done so.

Was the individual on holiday in the lead up to the match? If so it should have been done beforehand as the information was available. 

You say it's spoon feeding

I say making it impossible to accidentally field player who should not be playing is better than a system which relies on a manual check from a human, and a check from a governing body AFTER the game has been played.

In this setup you are ALWAYS going to get mistakes, errors and eventual overturning of results and fines which in some cases are overly harsh as the player in question had little to no impact on the outcome of the match.

 

The size of the clubs involved is irrelevant IMO if you want a fair system for everyone.

 

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13 minutes ago, gordon4418 said:

You say it's spoon feeding

I say making it impossible to accidentally field player who should not be playing is better than a system which relies on a manual check from a human, and a check from a governing body AFTER the game has been played.

 

I agree. Thinking about this more, no matter what the pre-match process is to ensure mistakes don’t happen, I’m surprised there’s no official check of team sheets submitted an hour beforehand. It would make sense that part of refereeing a match is the referee satisfies himself that there is no intention to field ineligible players which would result in a forfeited game. 

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36 minutes ago, gordon4418 said:

And i really wasnt underestimating the size of the task at building such a system.

With access to their database, This could be built by someone with a moderate level of understanding of web development or cloud services like lambda in a single day.

 

This situation happens rarely and only requires a designated member of the club to look up an easy to locate website, so easy that even a Daily Record journalist can manage it.

No need to reinvent the wheel. Just for someone to do their job. 

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3 minutes ago, FanWithaTypewritter said:

This situation happens rarely and only requires a designated member of the club to look up an easy to locate website, so easy that even a Daily Record journalist can manage it.

No need to reinvent the wheel. Just for someone to do their job. 

It doesn’t take one person to do the job. It takes one person at every club in the country. A job that could be done better by a single database and negate the need for this huge duplication of efforts across the country. If someone hadn’t reinvented the wheel our cars would look  very different. 

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11 hours ago, Alan R said:

I agree. Thinking about this more, no matter what the pre-match process is to ensure mistakes don’t happen, I’m surprised there’s no official check of team sheets submitted an hour beforehand. It would make sense that part of refereeing a match is the referee satisfies himself that there is no intention to field ineligible players which would result in a forfeited game. 

Now you want a part time ref to do the job rather than our full time club secretary?

Just accept it was our responsibility and we deserve our punishment rather than coming up with ludicrous ideas to prevent it happening.

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1 hour ago, Wee_Eck1979 said:

Just accept it was our responsibility and we deserve our punishment...

Fully accept it was our responsibility, our punishment appears excessive though based on previous League Cup breaches. The paranoid might feel Doncaster is getting his own back after being made to eat humble pie ? last year.

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