Mclean07 Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Lorielus said: What criteria do you use to determine if a job was created by the SNP? That they’ve never once claimed credit for one. I think, knowing them, that’s a pretty good guide. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker71 Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Bonbon19 said: Shetland and Orkney should be permitted to remain part of the United Kingdom if voters in the islands reject independence in a referendum. That’s the view of ex-Conservative minister the Earl of Caithness, who has tabled amendments to the Scotland Bill currently going through parliament at Westminster. It will be discussed in the House of Lords later this week. A “yes” vote in a Scottish independence referendum should, he argues, be succeeded by a nationwide referendum on the issue. The earl’s amendment reads: “A vote in a referendum … which results in Scotland leaving the United Kingdom shall not be binding on the residents of the Orkney Islands or the Shetland Islands unless a majority of the residents of the Orkney Islands and the Shetland Islands who voted in such a referendum voted that Scotland should leave the United Kingdom.” Shetland voted against devolution in the 1979 referendum but for the creation of a parliament at Holyrood in the 1997 referendum. https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2012/01/24/isles-should-be-allowed-to-remain-in-uk-if-they-reject-independence-tory-lord Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha what absolute horses**t. This is still up there with threat of Aliens attacking because we would become independent. -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorielus Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mclean07 said: That they’ve never once claimed credit for one. I think, knowing them, that’s a pretty good guide. If they did claim to create them, what criteria would you accept as evidence of that being true? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclean07 Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Lorielus said: If they did claim to create them, what criteria would you accept as evidence of that being true? I’d have to look at the individual cases and assess them, Your Honour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclean07 Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mclean07 said: I’d have to look at the individual cases and assess them, Your Honour. I’m off to play fives, so see you tomorrow! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackpomm Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 18 minutes ago, Beaker71 said: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha what absolute horses**t. This is still up there with threat of Aliens attacking because we would become independent. On 9th September 2020 the Shetland Islands Council voted 18 -2 to investigate options for self determination. https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202100142624/ But the strangest thing is perhaps that there is horses**t on your planet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 24 minutes ago, Beaker71 said: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha what absolute horses**t. This is still up there with threat of Aliens attacking because we would become independent. Why should the Shetland Isles automaticaly be regarded as part of Scotland if they democratically choose to be part of the UK? Just watching the Scottish weather on TV and the producer was clearly having trouble keeping the whole Shetland archipelago in frame with the rest of Scotland. If I lived there I'd be feeling just as not part of Scotland as I feel here being not part of the UK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cammy2012 Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 11 minutes ago, gdevoy said: Why should the Shetland Isles automaticaly be regarded as part of Scotland if they democratically choose to be part of the UK? Just watching the Scottish weather on TV and the producer was clearly having trouble keeping the whole Shetland archipelago in frame with the rest of Scotland. If I lived there I'd be feeling just as not part of Scotland as I feel here being not part of the UK. International law for one. Get real. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker71 Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) 37 minutes ago, mackpomm said: On 9th September 2020 the Shetland Islands Council voted 18 -2 to investigate options for self determination. https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202100142624/ But the strangest thing is perhaps that there is horses**t on your planet. You must be on a different planet then as on earth it is horses**t, and unionist horses**t at that. This is like, for arguments sake Arran deciding they want to be independent. Thats in effect what you are suggesting here, scotland is a single nation of which the Shetlands and the Orkneys are part of Just as Glasgow or Kilmarnock are. Unionist errant nonsense, being used as yet another project fear piece of absolute bulls**t. Edited September 14, 2021 by Beaker71 -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 19 minutes ago, cammy2012 said: International law for one. Get real. I can hear exactly the same stuff coming from Westminster in relation to the SNP organising a referendum. What goes around comes around. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, Beaker71 said: Ah so you think that for arguments sake Arran can decide to be independent? Thats in effect what you ate suggesting here, scotland is a single nation of which the Shetlands and the Orkneys are part of Scotland just as Glasgow or Kilmarnock are. Unionist errant nonsense, being used as yet another project fear piece of absolute bulls**t. So youre ok with stating that’s it’s ok for Scotland to become independent from the UK but not Shetland and Orkneys doing the same from Scotland , despite the evidence to the contrary ? It can’t always be MSM/unionist/project fear nonsense . Or can it as long as it fits your narrative ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasg Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, Beaker71 said: Ah so you think that for arguments sake Arran can decide to be independent? Thats in effect what you ate suggesting here, scotland is a single nation of which the Shetlands and the Orkneys are part of Scotland just as Glasgow or Kilmarnock are. Unionist errant nonsense, being used as yet another project fear piece of absolute bulls**t. Get the feeling the shetlands are a wee tad scared the oil might get turned off now the greens have there foot in the door!they see themselves as detached from the mainland not just geographically,they would rather have the new oil field than the wind farm that is being built 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, Beaker71 said: You must be on a different planet then as on earth it is horses**t, and unionist horses**t at that. This is like, for arguments sake Arran deciding they want to be independent. Thats in effect what you are suggesting here, scotland is a single nation of which the Shetlands and the Orkneys are part of Just as Glasgow or Kilmarnock are. Unionist errant nonsense, being used as yet another project fear piece of absolute bulls**t. Err no. Sheland has a totally different, Nordic, culture to the rest of Scotland. The feel just as close to Westminster as to Holyrood. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackpomm Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, Beaker71 said: Ah so you think that for arguments sake Arran can decide to be independent? Thats in effect what you ate suggesting here, scotland is a single nation of which the Shetlands and the Orkneys are part of Scotland just as Glasgow or Kilmarnock are. Unionist errant nonsense, being used as yet another project fear piece of absolute bulls**t. The Shetland Islands Council take the idea seriously. That's why I included the link to their correspondence with the Scottish Government. How can a vote made by the Shetland Islands Council be "unionist errant nonsense"? Shetland seems to me to have many characteristics of a stateless nation and very few similarities with Kilmarnock or Glasgow within Scotland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jasg said: Get the feeling the shetlands are a wee tad scared the oil might get turned off now the greens have there foot in the door!they see themselves as detached from the mainland not just geographically,they would rather have the new oil field than the wind farm that is being built There may well be something in this. The coalition with the Greens may very well be putting the s**ts up the Shetlanders regarding oil exploration. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker71 Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 22 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said: So youre ok with stating that’s it’s ok for Scotland to become independent from the UK but not Shetland and Orkneys doing the same from Scotland , despite the evidence to the contrary ? It can’t always be MSM/unionist/project fear nonsense . Or can it as long as it fits your narrative ? Ffs what part of the Shetlands are as much a part of Scotland as Kilmarnock are, while Scotland is a nation.amd leaving the UK, which we formed is not similar in any way whatsoever. Honeslty the lengths yoons will go to to try and throw s**te and fear around is ridiculous. So far all thats been done here is you have compared an apple with a Giraffe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker71 Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 23 minutes ago, mackpomm said: The Shetland Islands Council take the idea seriously. That's why I included the link to their correspondence with the Scottish Government. How can a vote made by the Shetland Islands Council be "unionist errant nonsense"? Shetland seems to me to have many characteristics of a stateless nation and very few similarities with Kilmarnock or Glasgow within Scotland. From a constitunional perspective the shetlands and orkneys are exactly the same as Glasgow and Kilmarnock. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killie71 Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 You’d be as well discussing Yorkshire becoming independent from England/UK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker71 Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 28 minutes ago, gdevoy said: Err no. Sheland has a totally different, Nordic, culture to the rest of Scotland. The feel just as close to Westminster as to Holyrood. Constitutionaly they are the f**king same as Glasgow or Kilmarnock. Jesus wept 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killie71 Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 42 minutes ago, gdevoy said: Err no. Sheland has a totally different, Nordic, culture to the rest of Scotland. The feel just as close to Westminster as to Holyrood. The Brae Tartan Army have arrived in London ahead of tonight’s heavyweight clash against England. John Gold sent in this picture of himself, James Milne, Addie Manson, Ryan Tulloch and Ryan Sutherland in the capital yesterday afternoon, dressed in Hawaiian Scotland shirts and kilts. There is a party atmosphere in London today with thousands making their way south for Scotland’s second match of Euro 2020. Scotland will take on England at 8pm tonight (Friday). https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2021/06/18/tartan-army-descend-on-london-for-auld-enemy-clash 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackpomm Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Beaker71 said: Constitutionaly they are the f**king same as Glasgow or Kilmarnock. Jesus wept It was accepted in the Treaty of Perth 1266 that Shetland was Norwegian. It was only in 1469 that having been weakened by the black plague, (Denmark and) Norway under Christian 1st, effectively pawned* the Shetlands to Scotland and wasn't able to pay the debt. Seems as time passed Scotland just ignored any attempt to redeem by Denmark/Norway. Disnae sound much like the history of Kilmarnock or Glasgow to me.... ....but still the story seems strangely ffamiliar * as security against the dowry of daughter Margaret's marriage to James III Edited September 14, 2021 by mackpomm bonbon continuity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 31 minutes ago, Beaker71 said: Ffs what part of the Shetlands are as much a part of Scotland as Kilmarnock are, while Scotland is a nation.amd leaving the UK, which we formed is not similar in any way whatsoever. Honeslty the lengths yoons will go to to try and throw s**te and fear around is ridiculous. So far all thats been done here is you have compared an apple with a Giraffe. But until the 15th century Shetland and Orkney weren’t part of Scotland , they were sold to Scotland as part of a dowry. So the islanders had little say on the matter , much like Scotland joining the union in the 18th century wouldn’t you say ? So they surely have the same right of self determination as Scotland does now ? Or do they have to be abused and ignored to get that ? I golf with an Orcadian and in his opinion the islands council are holding Holyrood to ransom with there political manoeuvring. How ironic . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcilroy56 Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 1 hour ago, gdevoy said: Err no. Sheland has a totally different, Nordic, culture to the rest of Scotland. The feel just as close to Westminster as to Holyrood. So should the Channel Islands claim to belong to France 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorielus Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 26 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said: But until the 15th century Shetland and Orkney weren’t part of Scotland , they were sold to Scotland as part of a dowry. So the islanders had little say on the matter , much like Scotland joining the union in the 18th century wouldn’t you say ? So they surely have the same right of self determination as Scotland does now ? Or do they have to be abused and ignored to get that ? I golf with an Orcadian and in his opinion the islands council are holding Holyrood to ransom with there political manoeuvring. How ironic . Are Shetland and Orkney even technically in the Union? It's been a long, long time but didn't they get made into a crown dependency explicity excluded from the union? Personally, I would have no issue with Orkney & Shetland becoming a principality or a nation-state if that was the will of the majority of the populace. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Lorielus said: Are Shetland and Orkney even technically in the Union? It's been a long, long time but didn't they get made into a crown dependency explicity excluded from the union? Personally, I would have no issue with Orkney & Shetland becoming a principality or a nation-state if that was the will of the majority of the populace. Technically I believe they became part of the UK with the 1707 act of union . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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