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Arbroath Match Fred


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It was shocking to watch

but

Dundee United got promoted under Neilson and most of their fans said they were atrocious to watch.

Hearts, same last season under him.

Promotion is the goal, but by Christ that was eye bleeding stuff last night.

While its a clean sheet and a point gained against a form team , a wee bit of football and creativity wouldn't go amiss.

McGinn must start next week, does the simple things a midfielder should.

Like passing to team mates and keeping possession.

 

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That was rank rotten. From the first few goal kicks, it was obvious the long kicks wouldnt work with the wind. It made for 50/50s on or before the half way line and kept the ball coming down our throat. I'd have changed the approach after 5 or 10, but in 90 we didn't change it once.


If the full backs come and offer with Arbroath pressing pretty high, they would inevitably have received the ball under pressure... so if playing it out from the back then wasn't an option, they could have hoofed it clear, which is all Hemming was doing anyway!


Arbroath had their tactics spot on. Their keeper judged his GKs perfect with the wind assistance, playing them down the throat of Nouble, whose first touch, ability to take a ball in, link up play, play on the turn, quick feet, strength, were all amazing. The first half hour in particular was the best centre forward performance I've seen in ages. It took far too long for Euan Murray to lamp him consecutively on the left shy line and the byline - both great challenges that won the ball but left some on him and quietened him down a bit.


So impressed with the big guy, an absolute monster able to hold off several defenders and beat them with skill and pace. So unlucky not to score.


As I said, their tactics from the back were night and day to ours. They judged it so much better with the wind in their favour. There was one piece of play early first half where the keeper pinged a lovely low ball to their left back who went on a run, played it to their attacker, cut inside, and if he had got his shot away earlier would probably have scored.


I was very happy to get in at half time 0-0. We had Euan Murray and his outstanding blocks, Zach Hemming and some good saves, and sheer luck that they hit the post, to thank.


I have serious doubts about TW's ability to change a game. We were so spoiled with Clarke. What change came about as a result of his half time talk? He said in his post match interview that we hadn't trained to go long and had planned to play football. Sort it at half time then. Tell your keeper not to go long, with kicks that the wind took all the way through to the opposition goalie.


What did his substitutions achieve? The game was crying out for a change and nothing that TW did had any sort of positive effect.

It was maddening. 80 minutes in, Fraser Murray takes a free kick that had to land at the back post, 7 or 8 yards out... and with the wind he hit it straight out of play. The previous 80 minutes should have been a f**king clue! Take a bit off it!


A very off night for everyone really, bar Murray who was a rock and Hemming who won us the point with his late double save.

I shouldn't moan as much when the point takes us top, at least for today, but I thought Arbroath started so well and looked a bit more vulnerable second half without the wind assistance - we could have won that game if we had played better.


Overall the trip has been fantastic, though. Staying in a top class B&B with the whole family, and really looking forward to explore Arbroath today. Brilliant to tick new grounds off at the age of 34!

Edited by Dillinger
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7 hours ago, Ken T said:

Exactly. Maybe those of us who are less than enthusiastic about the standard do have a sense of entitlement that their team will actually try to play some football. The most entertaining football I've seen from us over the years were usually in the lower league (73/74, 78/79, 92/93) so I'm not buying this dogfight crap that means we can't expect to see a decent game of football in this league. The people with a sense of entitlement are those at the club who take for granted that fans will continue to show up to watch this pish. Folk have better things to do with their time.

Hear, hear. People will only take so much. 

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7 minutes ago, Killiepies said:

The standard of player we have now just isn’t as good as even last seasons.Dicker and Power would have shone  playing against Arbroath instead of having to play against international players every other week.We were showed up last night for what we are.A hard working team of championship standard players who are highly unlikely to have many premiership teams vying for there services.

That’s not what we were hearing a few weeks ago when TW was being praised for the signings he had made. 

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Constantly playing long balls last night was mind blowing. Definitely doesn’t suit Shaw or Robinson’s games and the minute the ball is kicked it could end up anywhere in the wind. As professional players they should be able to see this within the first 5 minutes and keep the ball on the deck as much as possible. When they did we created chances. Unfortunately they stuck with the long punts way to much. 

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4 minutes ago, historyman said:

That’s not what we were hearing a few weeks ago when TW was being praised for the signings he had made. 

Like who ? The goalie and a centre half are the only improvements.The rest have championship written all over them and we still lack any sort of pace.Like other managers in this division it is near impossible to attract premiership class players unless they come through the youth system.BTW what happened to these promising youngsters that would be given a chance ? 

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2 hours ago, Gaz of the 20/20 said:

16 points from 7 games isnt too bad a return

1 hour ago, stewarty66 said:

Dundee United got promoted under Neilson and most of their fans said they were atrocious to watch.

Hearts, same last season under him.

Unlike others, I’m not unhappy at the result - I would have settled for a point in advance.

I can also agree that being top of the table after five wins, a draw and a defeat gives no cause for complaint.

But it is all just so BORING!

Seven matches have produced a total of nine goals. If we’re going to talk about Hearts being atrocious to watch, they beat Dundee 6-2 in their first match last season. In their seventh, QoS 6-1. We’ve been involved in nine goals in seven matches.

I don’t expect us to steamroller teams but I expect us to play with a bit of flair and style, and not to be worried about conceding a late goal every week.

I expect us to threaten a wee bit more from corner kicks and free kicks, because we have all week to rehearse them. I expect us to know what to do with throw-ins.

There was a time last night Naismith was stood holding the ball above his head for so long and the players around him were standing still for so long, I thought I had pressed the Pause button!

I’ve dozed off a few times watching games online, and find my attention wandering most of the time. The Ryder Cup on my laptop was strong competition last night.

1 hour ago, historyman said:

That’s not what we were hearing a few weeks ago when TW was being praised for the signings he had made. 

People on here change with wind. One week, we should be tying down a player on a five-year deal, the next he should be out the door.

The truth is TW has assembled a squad which, by Championship standards, is very experienced.

People were looking forward to him building a fast, attacking, young team but it’s certainly not that.

There’s at least one good player for each position. They have had time to gel. They should be performing much, much better, not in terms of results but the football they produce.

I notice little comment about McKenzie. I can only think that’s because it is no longer a debate. He almost did a lot of things but actually did next to nothing. His only moment was when he won a first-half free kick and he was hooked before he died of embarrassment from tackling himself.

Good servant but a squad player in the Championship isn’t where he should be at his age. 

 

Edited by skygod
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2 hours ago, Monk said:

Clearly I’m banging my head off a brick wall. I’d rather bury my head in the sand (in SEPTEMBER) than wet the bed for the next 8 months. 
 

some quick research in the last 6-7 years shows every single team who has come up from the championship has lost games. We didn’t lose last night. We were dreadful and we didn’t lose. Performances don’t get you points- and maybe if they did we wouldn’t have gotten relegated last season. 
 

Dundee United lost 4-0 to QOTS and 2-0 to Ayr away from home. Still champIons. 
 

im not saying it wasn’t awful. We couldn’t string two passes together. No one on the thread is saying that. This is all about the difference between people panicking (IN SEPTEMBER) and people not. 

By the way we haven’t lost a goal in the whole of SEPTEMBER. 
 

I also don’t understand the Brechin, Stirling Albion at their level comment. We lost to them when we were in the premiership. I’d rather play s**t, draw 0-0 than play superbly and lose 6-2 to Stirling Albion!!!

 

there will be other games like that this season. Warning you in advance. 

I'm not panicking after that garbage last night. That was the worst yet , but it was similar to nearly every game so far. No real cohesion,  no creativity,  long punts to nothing.  My point is , we will run out of luck if it continues.  The group of support that keep saying " just a bad day at the office " seem blinkered. We were never going to win every game. BUT at least let's see signs of some pattern of play , some stages of creativity.  The squad assembled doesn't show any signs of this. My point about losing to those clubs mentioned were, not losing to them when we were in the Premiership,  it was when we lost to them in the 70s and 80s and accepted it as we were partime and similar positions as them. We are not on the same level as Arbroath now. But they ( and others ) are showing more in desire , effort , skill and tactical knowledge. 

 

But hey , let's put it it down to just a bad day ( again ??)

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Really scunnered with this long ball tactic, the couple of times we kept it on the deck we looked like and very nearly created some chances. This constant punting it up top is grim to watch and not very productive. 

Suppose they’re not all going to be pretty and easy games but just aimlessly launching the ball up top will lose us fans and points. 

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7 minutes ago, skygod said:

 

Seven matches have produced a total of nine goals. If we’re going to talk about Hearts being atrocious to watch, they beat Dundee 6-2 in their first match last season. In their seventh, QoS 6-1. We’ve been involved in nine goals in seven matches.

Hearts are the 3rd biggest club in Scotland, Dundee Utd would have the biggest budget in the Championship. Remember they bought Shankland.

My Utd supporting work colleague said when Neilson left Utd to go to Hearts a loto their fans weren't fussed as they were awful to watch.

You obviously haven't been in Edinburgh within the last year and saw the Budge and Neilson out graffiti. 

So my point is while everyone wants us to win games playing football, history would suggest we are following a similar path to the clubs I mentioned, albeit we aren't as big or financially as well off as they were.

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Some saying we were brought down to Arbroath’s level - I wish we had been that good.

We are not even playing decent hoof ball we were rank.

in relative terms it was a balmy night in Arbroath, maybe we trained for an expected hurricane which did not materialise and this messed up our plans - not.

Forget the tactics you cannot overlook the complete failure of the majority of the players to pass the ball five yards. The passes hit straight out of play, the powderpuff challenges, the headers straight to the other team.

We thought after last seasons debacle at least we would have effort but there appears to a fair number on last night performance unable/unwilling to get stuck in and are anonymous for most of the game.

The Manager needs to get things sorted.

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I thought Arbroath were easily the best team we have come up against this season. Our performance was tied for our worst along with the Queens game, which we at least salvaged with a late winner.

We’ve been playing ling aimless balls every game I’ve watched this season so it’s clearly our tactic. The fact that the wind was playing havoc shows either the players are too stupid to try and do something else or have had it drummed into them not to play it on the deck.

Not once did we offer short at a goal kick, even though we Hemming didn’t kick it the same way twice. Even just to try and mix it it could have been an option, but they were happy to go as long as possible.

The long hoofs work slightly better with Cameron in the team. He made a wee difference when he came on.

Hopefully we’ll have a few changes for next week. Waters has to be in at left back. McGinn needs to start. Fraser Murray deserves to be dropped

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11 hours ago, mitch14 said:

Disappointing one. Still feel Wright doesn't have the balance quite right in terms of using the squad to its best.

To me seemed a good game for Polworth and Armstrong as things went on. Drifted further out the game in the second half. 

I'm definitely not as concerned as others though - one goal conceded after seven games and a cracking keeper is a great base to build from with a whole new squad. 

Arbroath played it as a cup tie - our players need to get used to dealing with that most weeks. And our manager needs to be more proactive in allowing them to do that. 

 

Spot on. F Murray totally ineffective. He even looked injured at one point then TW bollocked him and he sprinted back to defend.

Why was Armstrong not on for him at HT??!!

F Murray should be dropped after last night, no where near good enough.

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I mean I still think we will win the leugue but that is just not good enough. 
 

First half arbroath were entertaining to watch and we battled and fought. We played some football and get some credit.

Second half was no passing just fear induced long balls. 
 

credit to arbroath for basically bullying us, which is just not acceptable.

 

The lack of changes is really bothering to me. The midfield was horrible. Everyone of them. Rory probably the worst and Murray went missing second half yet no changes till late in the game. 

I wanted half time changes. Either put in McGinn and polworth and pass the ball or get on Cameron and play better long balls. 
 

Finally changes but still Murray, Alston, Lyons on the field. Robinson looked good and I would have put him anywhere instead of those 3. What has Armstrong done to not get a chance instead of hidden Murray? 
 

Credit Arbroath and their manager but I think the difference is managerial rather than player quality. We clearly have the most talented squad (by a mile) but they consistently playing like ass. 
 

We been calling out for a team to come out and attack us and after loosing the best of an entertaining first half we shut up shop and play part timers for a draw with long clearance after long clearance.

At least Neilson had his teams scoring some goals. 
 

I want to see polworth and McGinn next week. Alston needs benched, and Lyons is just not that good it seems. 
 

Shaw is not going to win games without service and his touch and link up play is kind of average. Tonight if he got the service the big Arbroath striker did then he might have ran riot. Should have scored to be fair.

 

Seriously this is just not fun. I was remaining optimistic at half time thinking we weathered the storm and would change and improve. How wrong was I?

I was upset at how we played last week as honestly it was mostly the same dross against a worse team that had no real game plan.

Arbroath had a very specific game plan and they all knew what they were supposed to do. Why don’t our players ever look like that?

Haubstrup deserves some credit as I thought he was excellent. One time he was slow on a ball but otherwise he was solid. Got to give players the credit when they do well inspite of the rest of the team. Hemming had to be MOM but he was a bit sketchy at times. 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, mitch14 said:

Wright pretty clear in the Killie TV interview - unhappy with the performance, said to the players if we went long ball and matched them it would be a long night so he told them to be more bold on the ball

Disappointed he couldn't do more to change that as he watched the game play out. He needs to do more to get them out of that habit. 

He could have hooked Murray and got Armstrong on!!! Poor from TW if that’s his chat!

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8 hours ago, Angelo's Ashes said:

There were a lot of dreadful games in the 92/93 season. We just forget about them as the years go by. 

Until we got George McCluskey onto a game, we were utterly mediocre that season. 

Fair shout, you're right. Remember coming out of Love Street where we took a massive support thinking we'd blown it. Only got up because Dunfermilne capitulated.

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35 minutes ago, killiefife said:

Some saying we were brought down to Arbroath’s level - I wish we had been that good.

We are not even playing decent hoof ball we were rank.

in relative terms it was a balmy night in Arbroath, maybe we trained for an expected hurricane which did not materialise and this messed up our plans - not.

Forget the tactics you cannot overlook the complete failure of the majority of the players to pass the ball five yards. The passes hit straight out of play, the powderpuff challenges, the headers straight to the other team.

We thought after last seasons debacle at least we would have effort but there appears to a fair number on last night performance unable/unwilling to get stuck in and are anonymous for most of the game.

The Manager needs to get things sorted.

100% correct. Feart to tackle was what I saw last night!! And hopeless on the ball. Like the panicky first half at Firhill.

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