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Arbroath Match Fred


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4 minutes ago, Zorro said:

Alston should have scored, it was laid on a plate for him. Shaw was unlucky that the keeper pulled off a fantastic save. It’s not a case of Arbroath wanting it more, it’s just a difficult place to play football. The wind plays a part, the pitch plays it’s part. It may look great but it’s like playing on a links golf course when you’re used to a parkland one. Some players adapt quicker and better than others. The club pro will most likely have the upper hand against a visitor. This is borne out in their results against what most likely f us would consider to be bigger teams. 

For me they wanted it more. There attitude was spot on. Some of ours were questionable. We weren’t winning first balls, we weren’t winning second balls and in some cases third balls were out of the question. It was obvious the likes of Euan Murray and Hemings were busting a gut. Can we say the same for Naismith, Lyons, Alston, Shaw, Robinson, Fraser Murray?

Taking everything you’ve said into account and from my previous comment the point isn’t the negative. The attitude and application from some was. Conditions and playing surface have a big impact but had we been at it we could have killed the game and anything they tried to do. Made it a comfortable point instead of a lucky one

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3 minutes ago, FanWithaTypewritter said:

You’re being way too kind. We were rank rotten and that was down to much more than just the stiff breeze. 

Lots of teams are rank rotten at Arbroath, coincidence?

Btw that strong breeze stopped the keepers from getting the ball near the halfway line on several occasions and resulted in it going straight through to their opposite number on others. 

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1 hour ago, Harrogate Peter said:

On reflection there is no way we will be promoted performing like that.

There have been a number of turgid performances this season where we look less than the sum of our parts. That's a  managerial issue whatever you think of Tommy Wright.

There's no doubt in my mind that Arbroath was the worst performance of the season. I think that blew the theory that it's teams playing defensively and stifling us that's the problem.

Rather than worry about ICT or anybody else we need to get our house in order!

Spot on. Not hearing enough about us from our manager and what we are going to do. What is our style of play? Tommy keeps talking about promotion, i want to hear him talking about winning the league. IMO the pressure is on Wright already. We just don't look like league champions elect albeit there is a long way to go. We haven't shown a statement of intent in any game yet, plenty of players struggling to show any kind of form other than Hemmings and Euan Murray. Luckily for us the standard of the league seems poor this season, but we must up our game in terms of workrate, attitude, creativity and goals. 

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2 minutes ago, piffer said:

For me they wanted it more. There attitude was spot on. Some of ours were questionable. We weren’t winning first balls, we weren’t winning second balls and in some cases third balls were out of the question. It was obvious the likes of Euan Murray and Hemings were busting a gut. Can we say the same for Naismith, Lyons, Alston, Shaw, Robinson, Fraser Murray?

Taking everything you’ve said into account and from my previous comment the point isn’t the negative. The attitude and application from some was. Conditions and playing surface have a big impact but had we been at it we could have killed the game and anything they tried to do. Made it a comfortable point instead of a lucky one

I don’t accept our attitude and application weren’t right. Some players had an off night but it wasn’t due to a lack of effort. They got drawn into a certain style of football. They overhit simple passes, they wasted a number of set pieces the same way. They struggled to adjust their positioning at the restarts. They struggled with the bounce of the ball. They struggled the same way a lot of teams visiting Arbroath do. 
 

And I don’t even want to imagine the meltdown on here if we’d went to Arbroath, sat in and tried to kill the game. 

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1 minute ago, Zorro said:

I don’t accept our attitude and application weren’t right. Some players had an off night but it wasn’t due to a lack of effort. They got drawn into a certain style of football. They overhit simple passes, they wasted a number of set pieces the same way. They struggled to adjust their positioning at the restarts. They struggled with the bounce of the ball. They struggled the same way a lot of teams visiting Arbroath do. 
 

And I don’t even want to imagine the meltdown on here if we’d went to Arbroath, sat in and tried to kill the game. 

Some players had an off night? Really? Why should that be? They know what's at stake. I don't csre what other teams do at Arbroath, I only care about what we do. With the exceptions of Hemmings and Euan Murray, the application, attitude and workrate of tye rest of them was questionable. One shot on target is the yardstick. 

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6 minutes ago, funky monkey said:

Some players had an off night? Really? Why should that be? They know what's at stake. I don't csre what other teams do at Arbroath, I only care about what we do. With the exceptions of Hemmings and Euan Murray, the application, attitude and workrate of tye rest of them was questionable. One shot on target is the yardstick. 

But it was windy….

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13 minutes ago, Zorro said:

I don’t accept our attitude and application weren’t right. Some players had an off night but it wasn’t due to a lack of effort. They got drawn into a certain style of football. They overhit simple passes, they wasted a number of set pieces the same way. They struggled to adjust their positioning at the restarts. They struggled with the bounce of the ball. They struggled the same way a lot of teams visiting Arbroath do. 
 

And I don’t even want to imagine the meltdown on here if we’d went to Arbroath, sat in and tried to kill the game. 

So who were the players out there thinking we have a real opportunity to send a message to the rest of the league? Who were the players looking to take the game by the scruff of the neck?

The point took us top but it put no pressure on ICT to win. I didn’t see players going through it all for the cause. The one thing we all knew was we would have to match that side of Arbroath's play to stand a chance of winning. Two men really stood up to be counted

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3 minutes ago, funky monkey said:

Some players had an off night? Really? Why should that be? They know what's at stake. I don't csre what other teams do at Arbroath, I only care about what we do. With the exceptions of Hemmings and Euan Murray, the application, attitude and workrate of tye rest of them was questionable. One shot on target is the yardstick. 

You don’t think knowing what’s at stake brings its own additional pressures too? It’s a free hit for Arbroath. Nobody expects them to be in the shake-up at the end of the season. They’re on familiar surroundings and are used to the challenges playing at Gayfield presents. The town is behind them and everyone is playing with a smile on their face. Contrast that with our fans picking the bones from everything we do, every decision we take, every performance from every player. Some people on here won’t seem to be satisfied until we’ve missed out on promotion and all our players have flopped. It’s utterly bizarre. 

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2 minutes ago, Zorro said:

You don’t think knowing what’s at stake brings its own additional pressures too? It’s a free hit for Arbroath. Nobody expects them to be in the shake-up at the end of the season. They’re on familiar surroundings and are used to the challenges playing at Gayfield presents. The town is behind them and everyone is playing with a smile on their face. Contrast that with our fans picking the bones from everything we do, every decision we take, every performance from every player. Some people on here won’t seem to be satisfied until we’ve missed out on promotion and all our players have flopped. It’s utterly bizarre. 

Sorry mate, that's a post excusing a very poor performance. 

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7 minutes ago, piffer said:

So who were the players out there thinking we have a real opportunity to send a message to the rest of the league? Who were the players looking to take the game by the scruff of the neck?

The point took us top but it put no pressure on ICT to win. I didn’t see players going through it all for the cause. The one thing we all knew was we would have to match that side of Arbroath's play to stand a chance of winning. Two men really stood up to be counted

I thought we didn’t care about other teams? Exactly what message is it you wanted to send? Anyone who doesn’t know we see ourselves as challenging for the league must be pretty stupid. The only message I care about is the one that says league champions at the end of the season. A few deluded fans on here thinking that unless we win every game that this isn’t achievable, is not my concern. 

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Arbroath is over we could have played conditions slightly better but we got out with a draw, didn’t even deserve one on the play of the game. Clean sheet again against top scorers in the league. Performance needs to be better but bar a goal keeping howler against Inverness who were more streetwise and booted us off the pitch we have been unbeaten and solid defensively. Good foundations for the next 30 odd games. I believe if need be we will strengthen in January, I also believe Inverness will lose a few key players to injury a bit like us the now. I don’t think they have as good a squad which should show. Also they are travelling mammoth journeys most weeks. Performance needs to be better though.

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5 minutes ago, Souleycouley93 said:

Arbroath is over we could have played conditions slightly better but we got out with a draw, didn’t even deserve one on the play of the game. Clean sheet again against top scorers in the league. Performance needs to be better but bar a goal keeping howler against Inverness who were more streetwise and booted us off the pitch we have been unbeaten and solid defensively. Good foundations for the next 30 odd games. I believe if need be we will strengthen in January, I also believe Inverness will lose a few key players to injury a bit like us the now. I don’t think they have as good a squad which should show. Also they are travelling mammoth journeys most weeks. Performance needs to be better though.

Spot on. 

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24 minutes ago, Zorro said:

Sorry mate but you’ve went off the deep end about a result that isn’t too bad in the grand scheme of things. 

Not went off the deep end at all. Calling it as I see it. It's not so much the result as the performance that we should be concerned about. Unlike you, I won't make excuses for a poor performance. 

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Gayfield on a Friday night with the wind howling off the North Sea is never going to be straightforward. I'd have gladly taken a point before the game. The baffling part was why we insisted in keeping the ball airborne and as discussed we don't know if that was the players not following instructions or the manager telling them to boot the ball up the park. McGinn looked like Zidane when he came on compared to what had gone before.

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No meltdown here, I thought a 1-0 win would be a great result and a draw fine.

The goalie/defenders look fine, McGinn probably needs to start every game, if fit; and Alston has probably been better than expected.

We need more from Polworth & the wide players, though.

Polworth should be making himself undroppable - he isn't. He seems to be moody/huffy & fell out with Alexander at Motherwell.  TW needs to get more from him, or he's a wasted wage for a position in which we really need a difference-maker.  The Arbroath surface was praised pre-match (maybe it wasn't great, but it wasn't a ploughed field, either).  TW didn't plan to play 'long' & wanted the team to 'pass it' but Polworth (a player, remember, TW's supposed to have been delighted to get, having tried at St J.) didn't come off the bench (a message to the player?).  Polworth had also played more than 200 games for ICT/M'well, so has good experience.  Which brings me to the wide players......

Armstrong had few first team appearances for a 23 yr old, before signing. 

F Murray had even fewer appearances than Armstrong.

It's a substantial ask of them to provide the chances to win us the league, maybe even unfair; as said already, expectation & being a scalp brings pressure.  

McKenzie should be better at this level.  He's definitely worth having & it was right to start him at Arbroath, but he needs to have more influence.

Burke should still be fine (just needs to tone down his frustration & avoid getting clattered, if poss).

TW's comments have been refreshingly honest, similar to the fans', but he hasn't offered any solutions, which niggles me.  He needs asked:-

why McGinn & Polworth didn't start,

why we were launching it at all & why that continued,

about his intended style,

about his apparent reluctance re-subs.

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It's not the results, which have been fair considering the performances. The question is why is the standard so poor if the budget is there? People say it's great we are getting results playing like that but surely it is only a matter of time until the luck wears off and the results start to match the performances?

Watching the top league highlights on the TV (Which are hardly silky soccer) I am just awestruck at how far our standard has dropped from the guff we were turning in at the end of last season. 

Folks say Tommy has picked a team for the job at hand and results would suggest that is where we are but the performances indicate we really dont have another gear we can move up to to get over the line.

 

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5 hours ago, Ngonge88 said:

I can remember plenty people saying how we were playing some nice stuff under dyer and unlucky not to get some results.

Surely playing s**te and picking up results is better

But we were t playing nice stuff under Dyer and being unlucky - just as we aren’t playing good stuff now even though some like to think we are. Our last two performances have been dire - no pun intended. 

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1 hour ago, funky monkey said:

Not went off the deep end at all. Calling it as I see it. It's not so much the result as the performance that we should be concerned about. Unlike you, I won't make excuses for a poor performance. 

Until such times as the table is decided on performances rather than results, I’ll stick to judging us by results thanks. 
 

And I don’t make excuses, I highlight factors which show things aren’t as bleak as some people try to make out. I accept you won’t do either of these. You’ll be too busy trying to apportion blame, scapegoating a player or trying to whip up a frenzy of negativity. So here’s a couple of rays of sunshine to put a smile on your face at the end of this weekend. We are averaging more points per game and conceding considerably fewer goals per game than Hearts managed last season and they strolled the league. 

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46 minutes ago, Zorro said:

We are averaging more points per game and conceding considerably fewer goals per game than Hearts managed last season and they strolled the league. 

And that is a positive that may just get us back up on its own. The only uncertainty is whether ITC are just a flash in the pan or whether they can sustain their run. 

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1 hour ago, Zorro said:

Until such times as the table is decided on performances rather than results, I’ll stick to judging us by results thanks. 
 

And I don’t make excuses, I highlight factors which show things aren’t as bleak as some people try to make out. I accept you won’t do either of these. You’ll be too busy trying to apportion blame, scapegoating a player or trying to whip up a frenzy of negativity. So here’s a couple of rays of sunshine to put a smile on your face at the end of this weekend. We are averaging more points per game and conceding considerably fewer goals per game than Hearts managed last season and they strolled the league. 

I don't care what Hearts did last season, I only care about Kilmarnock. If you genuinely think that performance on Friday night was good enough then that is your right. 

Despite your insistence, I don't see many, if any on here, pushing the panic button. But, for me, that performance was very far from the standard that we need to set to evidence our credentials as championship favorites. 

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1 hour ago, gdevoy said:

It's not the results, which have been fair considering the performances. The question is why is the standard so poor if the budget is there? People say it's great we are getting results playing like that but surely it is only a matter of time until the luck wears off and the results start to match the performances?

Watching the top league highlights on the TV (Which are hardly silky soccer) I am just awestruck at how far our standard has dropped from the guff we were turning in at the end of last season. 

Folks say Tommy has picked a team for the job at hand and results would suggest that is where we are but the performances indicate we really dont have another gear we can move up to to get over the line.

 

Agree with this. Sooner or later, if we don't improve our performances, inevitably results will begin to suffer. 

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