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8 minutes ago, funky monkey said:

I don't care what Hearts did last season, I only care about Kilmarnock. If you genuinely think that performance on Friday night was good enough then that is your right. 

Despite your insistence, I don't see many, if any on here, pushing the panic button. But, for me, that performance was very far from the standard that we need to set to evidence our credentials as championship favorites. 

I don’t understand how you can expect to judge what is and isn’t the standard required to be champions, if you completely ignore the standards achieved by previous champions. Your insistence that it’s not relevant is as logical as berating a sprinter for not being able to run 100 meters in five seconds if they have ambitions of winning the Olympics.

 

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19 minutes ago, funky monkey said:

I don't care what Hearts did last season, I only care about Kilmarnock. If you genuinely think that performance on Friday night was good enough then that is your right. 

Despite your insistence, I don't see many, if any on here, pushing the panic button. But, for me, that performance was very far from the standard that we need to set to evidence our credentials as championship favorites. 

Agree with this. Friday night was awful. I'd actually say we haven't put one convincing performance in the league this season. Ayr were just bloody crap and we did what was needed. Hamilton away 2nd half is probably the best this season , only 45 mins. The rest have been similar to Friday night. No creativity,  slow build up, sideways and backwards. Too many long balls. Some folk can bury their heads and say " but but but , we're top of the league " . Performances will have to improve to stay there,  my concern is teams know how we play and say " cmon then break us down ". This leads to a turgid game like we've seen so far . Because we don't have a playmaker to create something to break teams down. We surely can expect more than one shot at goal next game ?

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15 minutes ago, Zorro said:

I don’t understand how you can expect to judge what is and isn’t the standard required to be champions, if you completely ignore the standards achieved by previous champions. Your insistence that it’s not relevant is as logical as berating a sprinter for not being able to run 100 meters in five seconds if they have ambitions of winning the Olympics.

 

Because every season is different? 

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6 minutes ago, aldo71 said:

Agree with this. Friday night was awful. I'd actually say we haven't put one convincing performance in the league this season. Ayr were just bloody crap and we did what was needed. Hamilton away 2nd half is probably the best this season , only 45 mins. The rest have been similar to Friday night. No creativity,  slow build up, sideways and backwards. Too many long balls. Some folk can bury their heads and say " but but but , we're top of the league " . Performances will have to improve to stay there,  my concern is teams know how we play and say " cmon then break us down ". This leads to a turgid game like we've seen so far . Because we don't have a playmaker to create something to break teams down. We surely can expect more than one shot at goal next game ?

Last week Man City managed one shot on target against Southampton and I don’t think anyone could accuse them of lacking playmakers. 

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2 minutes ago, aldo71 said:

Agree with this. Friday night was awful. I'd actually say we haven't put one convincing performance in the league this season. Ayr were just bloody crap and we did what was needed. Hamilton away 2nd half is probably the best this season , only 45 mins. The rest have been similar to Friday night. No creativity,  slow build up, sideways and backwards. Too many long balls. Some folk can bury their heads and say " but but but , we're top of the league " . Performances will have to improve to stay there,  my concern is teams know how we play and say " cmon then break us down ". This leads to a turgid game like we've seen so far . Because we don't have a playmaker to create something to break teams down. We surely can expect more than one shot at goal next game ?

My thoughts exactly. Because we’re challenging for top spot cracks are being papered over. 
 

We are generally awful to watch but managing to get points usually thanks to an excellent keeper and central defender.

Spot on regards the need for a playmaker. Desperately need midfield creativity and surprised, with Burrell returning to join Shaw, Robinson and Cameron as forward options that it sounds like we are looking at bringing in another striker when it’s clear where we need a different option. 
 

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10 minutes ago, aldo71 said:

Agree with this. Friday night was awful. I'd actually say we haven't put one convincing performance in the league this season. Ayr were just bloody crap and we did what was needed. Hamilton away 2nd half is probably the best this season , only 45 mins. The rest have been similar to Friday night. No creativity,  slow build up, sideways and backwards. Too many long balls. Some folk can bury their heads and say " but but but , we're top of the league " . Performances will have to improve to stay there,  my concern is teams know how we play and say " cmon then break us down ". This leads to a turgid game like we've seen so far . Because we don't have a playmaker to create something to break teams down. We surely can expect more than one shot at goal next game ?

Spot on for me, completely agree. 

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4 minutes ago, Zorro said:

Fair point. 
 

Hearts won it averaging 2.1 points per game

Dundee Utd won it averaging 2.1 points per game

Ross county won it averaging 1.9 points per game  

St Mirren won it averaging 2.05 points per game  

Hibs won it averaging 1.9 points per game  

Rangers won it averaging 2,25 points per game  

We’re only averaging 2.28 points per game while apparently being s**t at everything. 

 

Completely irrelevant. 

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37 minutes ago, Zorro said:

I don’t understand how you can expect to judge what is and isn’t the standard required to be champions, if you completely ignore the standards achieved by previous champions. Your insistence that it’s not relevant is as logical as berating a sprinter for not being able to run 100 meters in five seconds if they have ambitions of winning the Olympics.

 

Wasn’t that a shortened season last year. Differing Covid issues to face. Playing with no supporters which works for some and doesn’t for others.

There are of course comparisons we can draw but last season was different to any season in most of our lifetimes. 

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7 minutes ago, Zorro said:

Fair point. 
 

Hearts won it averaging 2.1 points per game

Dundee Utd won it averaging 2.1 points per game

Ross county won it averaging 1.9 points per game  

St Mirren won it averaging 2.05 points per game  

Hibs won it averaging 1.9 points per game  

Rangers won it averaging 2,25 points per game  

We’re only averaging 2.28 points per game while apparently being s**t at everything. 

 

What were they all averaging after 7 games?

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1 minute ago, piffer said:

What were they all averaging after 7 games?

Maybe I could look at average points per game on Friday nights for you next?
Or we can keep going back until we find a season where 2.28 points per game wouldn’t be enough to see us promoted. 

Why are so many of our fans so desperate to prove we’re not good enough?

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2 minutes ago, Zorro said:

Maybe I could look at average points per game on Friday nights for you next?
Or we can keep going back until we find a season where 2.28 points per game wouldn’t be enough to see us promoted. 

Why are so many of our fans so desperate to prove we’re not good enough?

Being pedantic, if the season finished just now, it isn't enough. You can make statistics to suit your argument. Bottom line is, your comparison is completely irrelevant. Who knows what points average will be enough thid season? 

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3 minutes ago, Zorro said:

Maybe I could look at average points per game on Friday nights for you next?
Or we can keep going back until we find a season where 2.28 points per game wouldn’t be enough to see us promoted. 

Why are so many of our fans so desperate to prove we’re not good enough?

Why would we compare our 7 game record against clubs who played 38 games? It’s a pointless exercise. More accurate is judging it over the same periods. Either our whole season or their first seven.

No one is wanting to prove we aren’t good enough. There are various opinions performance wise that so far we haven’t been good enough. For some it’s the season so far and for others myself included it’s acknowledging that we got out of jail after a poor performance on Friday night.

I'd love us to play better football and score more goals but if this gets us automatic promotion I won’t complain. It doesn’t mean we have to sugarcoat or ignore every below par performance 

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2 minutes ago, funky monkey said:

Being pedantic, if the season finished just now, it isn't enough. You can make statistics to suit your argument. Bottom line is, your comparison is completely irrelevant. Who knows what points average will be enough thid season? 

Being just as pedantic if the season finished now it would be voided. 

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Just now, piffer said:

Why would we compare our 7 game record against clubs who played 38 games? It’s a pointless exercise. More accurate is judging it over the same periods. Either our whole season or their first seven.

No one is wanting to prove we aren’t good enough. There are various opinions performance wise that so far we haven’t been good enough. For some it’s the season so far and for others myself included it’s acknowledging that we got out of jail after a poor performance on Friday night.

I'd love us to play better football and score more goals but if this gets us automatic promotion I won’t complain. It doesn’t mean we have to sugarcoat or ignore every below par performance 

One moment you’re arguing the Hearts average isn’t relevant because it’s a shortened season the next you’re arguing that you can’t compare our average because it’s not long enough. I’m not sure you understand how averages work. 
 

I confidently predict it will require significantly less than 2.28 points per game to stroll the league this season. Bookmark it  

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Zorro said:

Maybe I could look at average points per game on Friday nights for you next?
Or we can keep going back until we find a season where 2.28 points per game wouldn’t be enough to see us promoted. 

Well, it wouldn’t be if the team above us continued to average 2.71 points per game.

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4 minutes ago, Stefanus said:

Well, it wouldn’t be if the team above us continued to average 2.71 points per game.

Why don’t you tell us the last time a team won the championship averaging 2.71 points per game and then we can debate if it’s a realistic possibility?

Edited by Zorro
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9 minutes ago, rb_506 said:

Hate to say this but Zorro is kicking butts here. Some folk clearly just arguing for the sake of it and not wanting to back down.

Eh? Zorro is using irrelevant stats to suit his argument. He's the one not backing down. I'll leave it at that happy that I've made my point. Bizarrely though, Zorro seems to think that anybody who disagrees with him is negative, wanting the players and club to fail, he can jog on with thar nonsense. Good night one and all. 

Edited by funky monkey
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9 hours ago, Graeme S said:

Hey @Zorro don't forget Ebbe Skovdahl quote "Statistics are like miniskirts: They give you good ideas but hide the important things.”

Forget the stats we are not playing well just now and are certainly not entertaining fans. 

As Bobby said “if you want entertainment go to the pictures”. 
 

The trouble some people are having is in adjusting to us having to force the play. Maybe in a few weeks they’ll realise it was much easier for us to sit in, be defensively solid and hit teams on the break than it is to be the team pushing forward. I enjoy the tactical side so perhaps I’ve adjusted quicker. We are pretty much where I expected us to be by this point in the season too. Which makes it all the more bizarre that so many people have worked themselves into a tizzy, when they claimed to believe this season would be a struggle and I said we’d stroll it. 

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9 hours ago, Graeme S said:

Hey @Zorro don't forget Ebbe Skovdahl quote "Statistics are like miniskirts: They give you good ideas but hide the important things.”

Forget the stats we are not playing well just now and are certainly not entertaining fans. 

I mean, he finished bottom with Aberdeen and was only saved from relegating them by Falkirk not meeting stadium standards, so I'm not sure he's necessarily the wisest voice to follow....

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