Say Bye - To a Killie Pie?

[PuttersBar]

I take it you mean "earn" in the loosest possible sense. Can I suggest that "create" is a more appropriate term?

[Killie1970]

It's one thing after another with this f**king lawyer! Bad news follows more bad news and yet he seems to be the apple of the media's eye! An ever dwindling support, local businesses staying well clear, the 'Chairman' resigning.... and on it goes! The one constant in all this is the lawyer! And one f**k does he not give!

[skygod]

I'm struggling to see why the club is picking this fight (other than personal vendettas).

The club will continue to sell pies at matches regardless of what they are called, say "Steak Pie". The better they are, the more they will sell.

Brownings will sell "KIllie Pies" and the club will get whatever publicity by association they currently get.

The new caterers won't be able to sell "KIllie Pies", which will be reflected in the contract price for catering but will it make that much difference? A bigger problem is likely to be that suppliers won't tender for fear of dealing with the bunch of doolally clowns who run the football club.

Club in crisis - chairman gone, attendances falling, relegation looming - and all they are worried about is the trademarking of a f**king pie!

 

 

Edited April 13, 2016 by skygod

[baz]

5 minutes ago, skygod said:

I'm struggling to see why the club is picking this fight (other than personal vendettas).

The club will continue to sell pies at matches regardless of what they are called, say "Steak Pie". The better they are, the more they will sell.

Brownings will sell "KIllie Pies" and the club will get whatever publicity by association they currently get.

The new caterers won't be able to sell "KIllie Pies", which will be reflected in the contract price for catering but will it make that much difference? A bigger problem is likely to be that suppliers won't tender for fear of dealing with the bunch of doolally clowns who run the football club.

Club in crisis - chairman gone, attendances falling, relegation looming - and all they are worried about is the trademarking of a f**king pie!

 

 

This.

We don't make pies, we will still sell them, the same people will still buy them if they are good, we will still get reflected glory (free of charge) from Brownings Killie Pie if he continues to sell it up and down the country. It's criminal the time and effort going into this despite the situation we find ourselves in. It should never have gotten to this stage and anyone with half a modicum of business sense would have been able to strike a lucrative deal with Brownings that kept everyone happy, instead we get the par for the course clusterf**k.

[baz]

Point in case - Young Kilmarnock. The club have been down this road before. They forced Young Killie to change their name and what happened exactly? Young Kilmarnock is still in the main referred to as Young Killie and there is nothing that the club can do about it. Brownings could do the exact same, they re-brand (as they said in that article they would do) and call it the Kilmarnock Pie. It will still in the main be referred to as a Killie Pie and this whole hoo-ha has been nothing but a drain on resources and more absolute buffoonery from the club in the commercial and community areas. Clearly they never learn, not even from a f**k up which happened a couple of years ago. There are no winners here other than the lawyers....oh wait...

[Mcilroy56]

At the end of the day, as ever with MJ, this is all about who has the biggest "cock". He has to win at all costs even if it means being seen as the villain. More like the village idiot. He idolises power and doesn't care how he gets the end result. 

[Mcilroy56]

John Barnes just tweeting, most important issue for KFC is to avoid relegation and not worry about the rights to the names of pies. Spot on but if their is money to be made, we know where the boardroom loyalties lie.

[aldo]

even heard hawksby and Jacob mention they were going to discuss it on talksport. although I had to do something and missed their wafflings on the subject

[GrazyKillie]

Competition Time: We need a new name for our Award Winning Pie!!

Recent tweet by John Gall, would seem that Brownings will be changing the name... pretty s**te from the club to bully a local company into doing this.

Best suggestion so far - The Johnston Pie - full of nothing but pure mince.

Anyone got any better?

 

Edited April 13, 2016 by GrazyKillie

[bKb]

it's a pity JG gave in so easily but maybe he knew MJ would win having the copyright and wanted to save the club a few lawyers fees. something Johnston won't be happy about of course he couldn't lose there.

Browning should just call it the Kilmarnock Pie imo, unless of course MJ owns the word ''Kilmarnock'' now.

[Candygram for mongo]

According to STV........

"In the summer of 2015, Brownings opened discussions for an exclusive trademark licence agreement through their solicitors but subsequently, without informing the club,"

 

I presume that'll be why the club've terminated the contract. If the club own the trademark name Killie and if someone whom they've had a working relationship with tried to use something of theirs without having the courtesy to inform them of their intentions then I'd be ending the working relationship too. Mr Gall's using emotive language like grudge against him (good luck with that argument in court).

If MJ had done something a bit sneaky like STV are implying Mr Gall has, my goodness he'd be lambasted by the 'everything's MJ's fault brigade.' A little objectivity wouldn't go 

a miss here.

 

Edited April 14, 2016 by Candygram for mongo

[bKb]

that certainly brings in a fair balance to the argument Candygram if true. if JG wanted to own the ''Killie Pie''

but where does it all end? Empire Biscuits? Scones? Shortbread?

for me it seems silly the word ''Killie'' is trademarked at all but it is, more interesting is who will be the new pie-man.

 

[skygod]

Kilmarnock's pie war intensified on Wednesday night after the maker of the award-winning snack accused director Michael Johnston of running the club into the ground.

John Gall, managing director of Brownings Bakers, is embroiled in a legal battle with the Premiership club over naming rights to the famous delicacy.

As Sportsmail first revealed, an application by Brownings to trademark the 'Killie Pie', which the firm has produced for the last 13 years, has been challenged by the Kilmarnock board and their contract has been terminated.

A fierce critic of Johnston's decision to sack Kenny Shiels as manager three years ago, Gall believes the move is personal.

Claiming he rejected an offer to pay £100,000 to join the Ayrshire club's board because he couldn't sit across a boardroom table from Johnston, Gall told Sportsmail: 'Kilmarnock Football Club cannot prosper or move forward until Michael Johnston is no longer involved. Local business and sponsors have been alienated by his self-serving presence on the board.

'I have put in over £1million to Kilmarnock Football Club.

'In contrast, Michael put in a pound to gain majority control from Jamie Moffat.

'How much has he gained from that pound investment in Kilmarnock FC?

'Michael says Kilmarnock paid me £20,000 a year for products but, because I am a supporter, those products were actually heavily discounted.

'That £20,000 a year to Kilmarnock would have cost any other company £40,000.

'So, yes, I have been making £20,000 in sales to the club. But I'm not making much money out of that, contrary to what Michael seems to believe.

 'This is clearly a personal thing now. It has been a personal thing ever since I came out publicly in 2013 and said that the best thing that could happen to Kilmarnock would be for Michael Johnston to leave the club.

'I said then that it was the only way the club could move forward and, while he is no longer chairman, that remains the case.'

A lifelong Killie fan, Gall will now sever his ties with the club and attend Galston games instead.

'I told other directors the only way for Kilmarnock to move forward and preserve their top-flight status is for Michael to move on and a chief executive to come in and employ his own specialist team to run the football club the way a football club should be run,' Gall continued.

'I have urged the other directors time and again to sit up and listen to me. I was asked to go on to the board of Kilmarnock Football Club.

'I said: 'Of course I would, I would love to'.

'I said yes, I would pay my £100,000 like the other directors to join the board, but that I couldn't do so as long as Michael Johnston was still on that board.

'The sponsorship for the club last season, if you take away the contributions of QTS and Brownings, was only around £250,000. Local companies who would normally put in £30,000 or £40,000 to support the local football club are putting in a grand or two instead.

'So the club might claim they are still receiving support from local businesses. But it's a fraction of what it should be.

'Be in no doubt, this is affecting the football team. I believe the club will announce a loss in excess of £700,000 at the forthcoming AGM.

'What's happening now is affecting the club's finances and the budget for Lee Clark at a time when the team is battling to preserve their Premiership status.'

Kilmarnock took a trademark covering the term 'Killie' in 1998 and allowed Brownings to use the 'Killie Pie' term for a fee.

Advised by lawyers that the 'Killie Pie' name was not covered by existing trademarks, however, Gall claims he warned three club directors of his intention to apply for the naming rights after his offer of £540,000 over five years for exclusive catering and sponsorship rights was rejected.

A final offer of £120,000 to avoid a messy legal dispute also failed, leaving trademark attorneys to thrash the matter out.

'We will rebrand the pie and sell it as something else until the trademark is settled,' said Gall. 'When I took over the catering contract in 2003, the 'Killie Pie' was nothing.

'I rebranded it and brought it out, then did a lot of PR on it. I didn't know at that stage how much I could build it up to make it the phenomenon it is now.

'We want to keep the name 'Killie Pie'. We will press ahead with our bid to trademark the name in the meantime.'

(Daily Mail)

 

[Zorro]

John Gall is the type of businessman we should be begging to get involved, instead we're chasing away £640,000 of investment because of one mans ego. It's disgusting what we've become. As fans, we should be ashamed of ourselves. As a customer, I certainly am. Back to Napm for me. MJ and BB can stick their s**tty football, on their s**tty plastic pitch right up their arse. 

[daviefaekillie]

Objectivity based on hearing Michael Johnston's take on things? Surely experience tells us that the man will try and spin anything and his honesty is questionable at best. Reading the above it would seem that John Gall has answered any questions that we might have had based on the initial reports, and I know who I believe. That's Baz and John Gall had a public go at Johnston in recent weeks and obviously Hippo on many occasions before that, we need more people in the know to start slaughtering him for what he has done to our club and maybe public pressure will force him to try and find a way out the same way he was forced to sell out to Billy Bowie previously, nothing else seems to be moving him!!

[Zorro]

Public pressure won't move MJ or BB an inch. Cold, hard cash is all they're interested in. They stand to make between £3- £6 million on their investment and still have a five star hotel in their portfolio. That's the kind of cash you'll need to shift them, £100k will allow you to get close enough so they can laugh in your face though. 

[kev1869]

The way BB and MJ are going ripping the heart of the club and community, I'm half expecting to wake to footage of the two of them torching an original copy of Burns' Kilmarnock Edition, while dancing on Johnnie Walker's grave and daring someone to buy the poxy club off them if they don't like it.

[gdevoy]

I am still at a loss to understand how, in legal terms, a business can "trademark" the word "Killie".

It is a archaic / slang term for the town of Kilmarnock. The football club were not allowed to use the town crest so how come they are allowed to trademark the town name?

Time for somebody to show some balls and stand up to the wee lawyer from Ayr.

[Bullitt]

The only people with legitimate rights to 'The Killie Pie' are the ones who originally started producing and naming it... WW Wales.

Browning's, in fact, are third behind WW Wales and Kilmarnock FC in the right to keep the name. 

Don't need to be a lawyer to understand this... Get off your high horse people... it isn't ALWAYS Michael's fault!!

[Candygram for mongo]

2 hours ago, daviefaekillie said:

Objectivity based on hearing Michael Johnston's take on things? Surely experience tells us that the man will try and spin anything and his honesty is questionable at best. Reading the above it would seem that John Gall has answered any questions that we might have had based on the initial reports, and I know who I believe. That's Baz and John Gall had a public go at Johnston in recent weeks and obviously Hippo on many occasions before that, we need more people in the know to start slaughtering him for what he has done to our club and maybe public pressure will force him to try and find a way out the same way he was forced to sell out to Billy Bowie previously, nothing else seems to be moving him!!

I'm only basing my point on this particular issue. Whatever MJ has or hasn't done/said previously, whatever Mr Gall has or hasn't 

done/said previously is irrelevant to my view on this one development........Unfortunately, judging by a lot of what's on this thread,

most of it is: 'MJ is in the wrong here because of previously perceived misdemeanors.' 

[Prahakillie]

18 minutes ago, david mcbeth said:

I agree. But it looks like the club took the trademark out pre-MJ. Presumably in the class of "sporting/ entertainment services" or something. I highly doubt in the class of "Pies".

as I posted earlier in the thread:

"as posted by Skydog 3 years ago:

The term 'Killie' is trademarked to the club in the following instances.

List of goods and services

Class 3: Soaps; perfumes; cosmetics; hair lotions; detifrices; shampoo.
Class 9: Video tapes; records.
Class 14: Jewellery; watches; rings; pendants; key rings; earrings; tie pins.
Class 16: Stationery; pens; pencils; calenders; posters, books; printed matter; magazines; photographs; greeting cards; periodical publications; paper articles; cardboard articles.
Class 18: Bags; sports bags; umbrellas; rucksacks; school bags; school satchels; leather articles; wallets.
Class 21: Chinaware; glassware; ornaments of china or glass.
Class 25: Articles of clothing; boots; shoes; slippers; headgear.
Class 30: Confectionery; pies; pastries; crisps; snack foods.
Class 35: Promotion of sporting activities.
Class 41: Sporting services; services relating to the presentation of sporting activities; professional consultation in the field of sporting activities; advisory and consultancy services relating thereto.
Class 43: Catering services; restaurant services; cafeteria services
Expires 11/12/2018

Class 32: Alcoholic beverages being promotional goods relating to The Kilmarnock Football Club.
Class 33: Wines, spirits and liqueurs being promotional goods relating to The Kilmarnock Football Club.
Expires 11/12/2018"

 

 

[Bullitt]

20 minutes ago, Prahakillie said:

as I posted earlier in the thread:

"as posted by Skydog 3 years ago:

The term 'Killie' is trademarked to the club in the following instances.

List of goods and services

Class 3: Soaps; perfumes; cosmetics; hair lotions; detifrices; shampoo.
Class 9: Video tapes; records.
Class 14: Jewellery; watches; rings; pendants; key rings; earrings; tie pins.
Class 16: Stationery; pens; pencils; calenders; posters, books; printed matter; magazines; photographs; greeting cards; periodical publications; paper articles; cardboard articles.
Class 18: Bags; sports bags; umbrellas; rucksacks; school bags; school satchels; leather articles; wallets.
Class 21: Chinaware; glassware; ornaments of china or glass.
Class 25: Articles of clothing; boots; shoes; slippers; headgear.
Class 30: Confectionery; pies; pastries; crisps; snack foods.
Class 35: Promotion of sporting activities.
Class 41: Sporting services; services relating to the presentation of sporting activities; professional consultation in the field of sporting activities; advisory and consultancy services relating thereto.
Class 43: Catering services; restaurant services; cafeteria services
Expires 11/12/2018

Class 32: Alcoholic beverages being promotional goods relating to The Kilmarnock Football Club.
Class 33: Wines, spirits and liqueurs being promotional goods relating to The Kilmarnock Football Club.
Expires 11/12/2018"

 

 

How dare you post factual information to portray the club as being in the right!!

Are you MJ?

Are you related to him?

McLean?

[Gordon]

Bearing in mind the club has a serious fight against relegation, this has to be the silliest argument since Posh Spice attempted to stop Peterborough using the name posh.

And also, there is a legal precedent to this in Still Game - Pete the Jakey invented the beefy bake only to be thrown out on the streets while his company made millions. He would have won his course case if he hadnt settled out of court for a drinks cabinet.

If John Gall is still interested in investing, we need to attract business me like him

[Candygram for mongo]

Well, that would suggest the club have a good case and can confidently wave pie pie to Mr Gall.....

the defence rests (not you Ashcroft) your honour.

[gdevoy]

43 minutes ago, Candygram for mongo said:

'MJ is in the wrong here because of previously perceived misdemeanors.' 

Probably a fair point. I would only add "currently" to the previously. (See "using KFC meeja to market an Infirm event" on the sportsbar thread.)

He never does anything to help himself does he?