fraz65 Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Allowing LC another transfer window seems like a more viable alternative than the others on the table. Based on what David Moran has implied on the forum, it's debatable whether the club even has enough money to pay the wages until the end of the season. To sack another manager and bring in a new one, in addition to funding new signings, would likely be beyond our financial means. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonbon19 Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Lets face it Killie are a club in crisis and no manager IMO would be able to get the team as it currently stands to play any better. The reasons for that are varied Clark recruited poorly in the summer , he did partially deliver what he promised i.e.he got rid of the deadwood and the underperformers but perhaps naively thought that the English 3rd tier was better than the SPFL. Which I'm sure a few on here me included thought/hoped was true . Clarks "tactics" are baffling . Promising a team to be proud of and delivering a hoofball s**tfest . We at Killie have.been spoiled by the tactics that King Kenny showed was possible and perhaps yearn for similar but I feel it's time to forget as we won't see that quality again at Killie unless things improve dramatically off the pitch.and comparisons are futile . I do believe Clark has some good ideas , the ice chambers , practicing at the same time as the games etc but I feel he has cherry-Picked these from FIFA16 in the furlorn hope that it covers up his other failings. I was a leading proponent of him and was willing to give him a chance but his failings far outweigh his good points or me now. I liked his novel approach but recognise that this is not what our club needs at this time. We need that Sam Allardyce/ Jimmy Caldewood experienced hand to avoid relegation this season but recognise that this is perhaps beyond what our board can deliver Our boardroom shenanigans is also playing a large part in our failure to thrive as it can't be easy for players and staff to give their best when they look up at the people who are supposed to be guiding this club. As this topic chas been done to death I won't comment further 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Lee Clark eyes January moves Killie boss believes he must add fresh faces next month to pull his team out of "the rut" they are in. "It just highlights that I've got to change things in the January window to make us stronger," 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi2 Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 On the idea that the players who left in the summer would 'walk' into the current team.....how about-McHattie, Hamill, Ashcroft, Scott Robinson, Westlake, Carrick, Balatoni, Higginbotham. Would any of them really 'walk' into this team? Of the ones which probably would you have Slater, Josh, O'Hara, and with the way the defence has been at time (a fit) Connolly. Clark cleared out a lot of the right players...he had no choice over the aforementioned Slater,O'Hara, Magennis who wanted to leave. To largely replace those who left with English lower League youth players was clearly a gamble, with the proviso that some would work out, while others wouldn't. Certainly those who have 'worked' have been fairly small in number-eg Coulibally, Jones, Hendrie, Boyle, Burn, Tyson (not in the 'youth' category obviously). From very early on, he pitched in a lot of our own youth players,often in preference to thise he had signed.Arguably our best performance behind Hearts at home was the Rangers game with a midfield of Frizzell, Hawshaw, Kiltie, Taylor and Dicker.Centre halves were Burn and Boyle. Most were (rightly) raving about the energy and ability shown by our own home grown products that night. On the one hand it suggested that, early on, Clark was not convinced by the English youth players, who had struggled in the League Cup games. On the other, it was really encouraging to see the positive impact that our own players could make. It was therefore very unfortunate to say the least, to lose our best player in Kiltie for the season, Hawkshaw shortly afterwards, followed by Burn. Had we been able to continue with an injury free run who knows how it would have turned out...it may have been an inconsistent run, but our 'own' players are generally afforded more time, than ones brought in. I can remember Kenny Shiels remarking some 3 years ago...'wait until the current crop of young players come through in 3 or 4 years time, we will be in great shape'. That same crop of players he referred to are obviously the current ones. So overall we have a manager who seems to have admitted mistakes in his signing policy (by way of not playing many of them), but who at the same time is willing to almost 'start again' with our own youth players, which has worked very well at times, and not at others. Losing Kiltie is obviously a massive blow, losing our two experienced centre halves in Addision and Boyd has been another. However, I would still rather watch the likes of Hawkshaw, Wilson, Frizzell, Taylor etc coming through, than McHattie, Carrick, Robinson, Westlake, Higginbotham etc. Did Clark underestimate our League? Yes, but he has at least tried to go with youth, and at times has got it right, and at times wrong. He has been very unlucky with injuries, but certainly needs to 'do better' in the next window. With regard to getting rid, seems doubtful that we could afford compensation,and it would mean big changes again in a very short space of time with a new coaching team. At the moment we are very inconsistent, but I reckon we won't go down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killie_Damo Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 We signed 20 odd players in the summer. Now I believe most were identified by a guy called Malcolm Crosby who Lee uses as our English scout. Just a horrific signing process by guys who didn't know the league they were signing for. To now say we need more signings on January is a damning indictment on their process. Not sure I would trust him with another window. To say there are no alternatives is silly. Ex managers are desperate to get back into the game, coaches desperate to make the step up and foreigners keen to break into UK so there will be no shortage of takers. And even without doing a full search and due diligence, we could just appoint Gary Holt and have an upgrade. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojike and Bod Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 (edited) According to Wiki Malcolm Crosby was Chief Scout for Wigan until October when Caldwell got potted. He is from the North East so would he have been recommending players on the side to Clark whilst working for Wigan? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Crosby Previously part of Clark's backroom team at Birmingham and was Clark's 'Head of Recruitment' at Blackpool. Entirely plausible and Clark really needs taken to task on his recruitment at the next AGM (assuming there is one soon and he lasts until then!). Edited December 28, 2016 by Mojike and Bod 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killie_Damo Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Crosby joined Wigan in the summer, after helping Clark identify our summer signings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanEwart Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I think Malcolm Crosby was a manager in the 90s- Sunderland for a wee while and Oxford Utd? This is just off the top of my head, so I might be wrong. This is the first time I've heard his name in connection with Killie signings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skygod Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 26 minutes ago, Bonbon19 said: ....he got rid of the deadwood and the underperformers but perhaps naively thought that the English 3rd tier was better than the SPFL. Which I'm sure a few on here me included thought/hoped was true . Who did he sign from League One? Coulibaly, Addison, Tyson, MacFadzean... If he had recruited experienced players from that level they would have been fine, probably. Most of the players he recruited were from Premier League and Championship clubs but inexperienced boys. If they had first team experience, it had been gained on loan at League Two or non-League level. Hendrie and Boyle had been loan together at York City, the worst League team in England last season. Adams at Lincoln City, Smith at Gateshead and Carlisle, Jones at Cambridge and Hartlepool. It's asking a lot for young kids to make the jump from playing (or not playing, in some cases) in English reserve or tier 4 or 5 football to the top division in Scotland. Clark underestimated what was required. Has he learned his lesson? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skygod Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 13 minutes ago, DuncanEwart said: I think Malcolm Crosby was a manager in the 90s- Sunderland for a wee while and Oxford Utd? This is just off the top of my head, so I might be wrong. This is the first time I've heard his name in connection with Killie signings. Clark referred to Crosby in at least one newspaper interview as having recommended Martin Smith. Crosby had Smith on loan while he was manager at Gateshead, before he was sacked. If Damo says Clark relied heavily on Crosby, I am sure that will be accurate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclean07 Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 How can Jones be a success when he can't even take a corner kick to the standard if a Junior player. And yet Clark lets carry on failing in that basic task time and time again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathematics Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 14 hours ago, GrazyKillie said: Whats our budget compared to St Johnstone? surely we shoudnt be far off. if so its done to the management or non management of our club Significantly poorer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullitt Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I've read this entire thread with interest, until I read that Tope would walk into our team... it was at that point I realised this thread had descended into madness... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirdwatch1965 Posted December 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Nearly 24 hours after starting this thread so thinking about it again I still stand by my initial thoughts. Clark can go anytime and take the following players with him, Webb, Hendrie,Cayode,Cobain,M Smith,Jones, McFadzean,Adams, Bojaj,K Boyd and Mckenzie. Thanks for coming but your useless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeM19 Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Clarks recruitment was poor but injuries have killed us recently. Feel sorry for Wilson as in beside an Addison/Boyd the boy would do fine but how Boyle is a professional footballer I'll never know! He can't pass with his stronger foot so what chance have we got! Also last night was a prime example of how you can't play a left back at right back. Taylor was predictable and nervous everytime he had to go onto his right side, so having Hendrie back for Sat will be a boost. K Boyd's unfit, overweight and uninterested and his supposed media career is all that he's good for now (not that I agree with anything he says). I'm a fan of clark and I believe the Jan transfer market and winter break may come at a very good time for us and will give us a chance to reevaluate, reassess and regroup! Hopefully 3 points on Saturday will arrive to celebrate the New Year. Mon the Killie. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz of the 20/20 Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 This thread is a joke. There's no chance he will get binned. This was always going to be a transition season attempting to undo years of mismanagement and we are still only a point off 6th. I believe all of our loan signings are out of contract with their parent clubs at the end of the season so taking them in and if they are good enough then signing them on pre-contracts in january is not too bad a move with very little lost. Under Locke we would have gone down last year and I genuinely think things will work out but won't happen overnight. After previous years of complete dross we now have people calling for the managers head whilst a point off top six. Fickle Killie fans indeed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanEwart Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 3 hours ago, skygod said: Clark referred to Crosby in at least one newspaper interview as having recommended Martin Smith. Crosby had Smith on loan while he was manager at Gateshead, before he was sacked. If Damo says Clark relied heavily on Crosby, I am sure that will be accurate. I wasn't doubting the veracity of Damo's statement for one second. I was merely meaning that I was completely unaware of Malcolm Crosby's involvement in our recruitment drive during the summer. I am now in possession of that knowledge and I am grateful to Damo for providing me with that information. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killie alan Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 We cannot afford to bin manager we don't have the money anymore. Faults have come from above. We need football people at the top. As Russell smith said at meeting for those that weren't there the club is not being run like as a business that's why it's losing money. Players have to be stand up and be counted. Gone are the days when we had local boys playing for the jersey. We all know the roots of the troubles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrogate Peter Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I think, on balance, Clark has to be given one more window and I hope he's learned from mistakes of the summer. I say this with zero enthusiasm and think those suggesting we'll definitely be fine/close to top six etc. are way off the mark. You can't be this bad so often and for so long without having serious problems. It seems to me hammerings away to the better teams are becoming the norm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skygod Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 23 minutes ago, DuncanEwart said: I wasn't doubting the veracity of Damo's statement for one second. I wasn't suggesting you had. Sorry if I gave that impression. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirdwatch1965 Posted December 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Clark has shown from the word go that he has no clue, Clyde away day anyone, we were a complete shambles then and not much has changed since. The league cup games were a chance to pick his team and to test out players but to lose to lesser teams then this was a sign of the season to come. To get in so many untested young players was wrong (what was he thinking). He would have been just as well playing our own youth team. The next 2 games at Partick and then Hamilton in the cup are huge in Clarks tenure. I still stand in the "go now camp" but lose these games and I should have a few more on my side. PS I want to win the next 2 games, nothings changed in that respect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie242KFC Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 19 hours ago, Mclean07 said: Clark talks a better game than the last two, that's all. And if a manager can talk a good game, some of our support lose their critical faculties. PS Every player that left would probably walk into the current team. As does 'being a good lad' as was often said about Locke 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayslap KIllie Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 The plastic pitch has been bad for us in respect of injuries, you have to accept Clark's point about his best players being injured and the backbone of his team currently being unavailable. That said some of his team selections and substitutions have been mystifying to say the least. Bojaj looks decent in the 20's but then he chucks him in up top against Celtic, he doesn't play up top for the 20's. Of the players he brought in only a few have made the grade, so he made some big mistakes there. He did say they wouldn't all work out but he must have expected better than this. This is a big window for him he must know he has to get it right or we 're in big trouble. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boydiesback Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Reading this thread and shaking my head in bewilderment! No wonder MJ has such an easy ride when so many "fans" miss the big picture and shoot the manager instead of getting to the root cause which is MJ. Get rid of Clark and we'd have had 4 managers in 3 seasons, does that not suggest that the problem lies not with all the managers but with the man who has squeezed the club dry and deprived any manager of the resources needed to build a team capable of at least avoiding relegation? A new manager might sign new faces but the overall quality of the squad would be the same as we can only pay peanuts. What player of any quality is going to come to killie with the mess the club is in? Even players we had left for the glory heights of Colchester as we couldn't match their offer. Yes lets get a new manager and at the end of the season we can get rid of him and start again...... while MJ continues to drive the club further and further down the tubes! Yep a new manager will make everything alright overnight!! Let's get behind the team and manager and encourage them to more performances like Rangers, Hearts and Dundee at home, the recent ICT game was also a good performance. But for god's sake let's stop directing all the flak away from the man (or men as the board appear unable to take action) that has got us to this position. A position that was inevitable since that day at Easter Road when we won 1-0 to avoid the play-offs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killie alan Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 8 minutes ago, boydiesback said: Reading this thread and shaking my head in bewilderment! No wonder MJ has such an easy ride when so many "fans" miss the big picture and shoot the manager instead of getting to the root cause which is MJ. Get rid of Clark and we'd have had 4 managers in 3 seasons, does that not suggest that the problem lies not with all the managers but with the man who has squeezed the club dry and deprived any manager of the resources needed to build a team capable of at least avoiding relegation? A new manager might sign new faces but the overall quality of the squad would be the same as we can only pay peanuts. What player of any quality is going to come to killie with the mess the club is in? Even players we had left for the glory heights of Colchester as we couldn't match their offer. Yes lets get a new manager and at the end of the season we can get rid of him and start again...... while MJ continues to drive the club further and further down the tubes! Yep a new manager will make everything alright overnight!! Let's get behind the team and manager and encourage them to more performances like Rangers, Hearts and Dundee at home, the recent ICT game was also a good performance. But for god's sake let's stop directing all the flak away from the man (or men as the board appear unable to take action) that has got us to this position. A position that was inevitable since that day at Easter Road when we won 1-0 to avoid the play-offs. Agree with you mate have allways said that before let's get off the managers back it's mj we should be concentrating on. I know people are upset but let's channel our energy to get this man mj out before it's too late!!!!!!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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