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Electric Cars


gdevoy

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Company i work for runs a few electric vans and from what i hear from the guys that use them, they are horrific. Pretty sure it's Fiat's that they drive and the guys were telling me that when the vehicles were brand new and on a full charge their range was only 140 miles, now the vans are a couple of years old now the range has dropped to 110 miles, by the time they have put the heater on to de-mist the windscreen,turn on the lights, put the radio on and also the tracking device - the range drops to 90 miles, from Kilmarnock they will get one trip up the valley to Darvel and back or maybe a trip to Mauchline and back and they have to return to the yard to recharge them. As they are vans they are sometimes carrying a bit of equipment in them so their range is reduced even further !!!!

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30 minutes ago, caltonkid said:

Company i work for runs a few electric vans and from what i hear from the guys that use them, they are horrific. Pretty sure it's Fiat's that they drive and the guys were telling me that when the vehicles were brand new and on a full charge their range was only 140 miles, now the vans are a couple of years old now the range has dropped to 110 miles, by the time they have put the heater on to de-mist the windscreen,turn on the lights, put the radio on and also the tracking device - the range drops to 90 miles, from Kilmarnock they will get one trip up the valley to Darvel and back or maybe a trip to Mauchline and back and they have to return to the yard to recharge them. As they are vans they are sometimes carrying a bit of equipment in them so their range is reduced even further !!!!

It’s batteries that are **** - unless you’re paying top dollar for a Tesla who are also at the cutting edge of battery technology.

Even if other companies build electric cars, Tesla have a serious edge in battery technology and by 2030 or whenever combustion cars get outlawed, they’ll be mass producing the powerplants in their Gigafactories for VW or whoever.

That’s where Musk is a Tech genius like Bill Gates, the Tesla batteries/engines/autopilot will just become industry standard and licensed out to whoever as a system on every car.

Currently he’s Steve Jobs and keeping it only Tesla tech. But so many governments are banning combustion cars, is more money in licensing the powerplant to everyone, than selling just one brand of super quick motor.

Edited by RAG
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I think haulage is more likely to go to hydrogen first, then battery once they get good enough. Electric vans are laughably underpowered at the moment most have got smaller battery capacities then cars. Good for inner-city deliveries though. They're not made for national speed limit driving.

Tesla, at the moment, don't make batteries. They buy them off Panasonic. They are about to start making them themselves. It's their motor/general vehicle efficiency that's unbeatable at the moment.

Their cars are build ground up to be electric so they can fit more storage in than most. Model 3 has 70kWh, Model S had 100kWh. Nissan env-200 van, which is probably the most popular electric van, has 40kWh. The van that Rivian are building for Amazon will have 180kWh.

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On 3/1/2020 at 7:37 AM, Lroy said:

Tesla, at the moment, don't make batteries. They buy them off Panasonic. They are about to start making them themselves. It's their motor/general vehicle efficiency that's unbeatable at the moment.

Telsa are rumoured to have a Graphine (super thin, super strong, layers of graphite like a pencil!) battery on the go, which charges in a fraction of the time current ones do, doesn’t increase capacity though!

On the subject of Panasonic batteries sold under different names, their rechargeable AA/AA Eneloops are best in business but about £15 for a 4 pack, but you can get the same Panasonic Eneloop battery in IKEA, marketed as a white IKEA LADDA ‘made in Japan’ battery at 4 for a fiver. Only one factory in Japan makes that spec of battery.  But are excellent batteries, they hold a charge for years (unlike most rechargeables)  and are a bargain compared to buying standard AA/AAA’s at that price. Wouldn’t usually remember IKEA product names but LADDA was memorable for a good value, superior product!

 

Edited by RAG
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  • 3 months later...
On 2/15/2020 at 7:03 AM, Lroy said:

Model S now up to 390 miles on one charge. Up from 265 on launch.

Now up to 402 miles on the same size battery. When they switch to a heat pump and newer cells when the car has a facelift (maybe this year) we'll be getting in to "London to glasgow in one charge" territory*.

*Also known as "Edinburgh to Greenock via Killie twice" territory.

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3 minutes ago, Lroy said:

Now up to 402 miles on the same size battery. When they switch to a heat pump and newer cells when the car has a facelift (maybe this year) we'll be getting in to "London to glasgow in one charge" territory*.

*Also known as "Edinburgh to Greenock via Killie twice" territory.

Real world, or 'lab testing'?

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5 minutes ago, CB said:

Real world, or 'lab testing'?

Standard lab test. Much like a combined cycle for a petrol car. Less on the motorway but people have been finding they're getting higher than that at low speeds. Realistic in other words.

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6 minutes ago, Lroy said:

Standard lab test. Much like a combined cycle for a petrol car. Less on the motorway but people have been finding they're getting higher than that at low speeds.

So, roughly 10% off. Going by internal combustion mpg standards.

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56 minutes ago, Lroy said:

Here's a range v speed graph for the S. Also note temp differences.

model_s100_range_temp_imperial_grande.png.b809f6b2b885b4073154d880090a1da8.png

The temperature range falling outside of summer (not far of 20% in my experience) is something to be wary about for anyone considering getting one.

Especially as most affordable cars are still not giving great ranges to begin with.

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1 hour ago, KillieBus said:

The temperature range falling outside of summer (not far of 20% in my experience) is something to be wary about for anyone considering getting one.

Especially as most affordable cars are still not giving great ranges to begin with.

It sounds like something that will improve as heat pumps are introduced. Kia announced the other day that the next heat pump they've been testing in their cars means it'll lose only 9% of range at -7°.

What car have you got?

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  • 4 weeks later...

That's now a year I've had the Model 3 (just about - the eax reminder has arrived).

It's been the easiest car to live with I've had by a mile.  I thought it was superb when I initially got it - then I went over to Arran for a weekend in April on their resurfaced roads over there and instantly became 17 again.  The handling and acceleration out of the corners is basically like playing Forza - I know it's the computer adjusting the power to each wheel so it's not my skill but the car - and couldn't care less, the thing's a joy.

I know at this point I pretty much sound like a shill, but I'm really not convinced you can get a better car than that until you get to something like 80k+.  The range is the limiter of course, but I've certainly had no problems getting around all of Scotland - the nav system tracks all chargers rather than just the superchargers, and all the ones I've used have been chargepoint scotland enabled so as simple to use as a petrol pump basically.

I had one maintenance issue - of all things, the bog standard 12V battery was faulty - they picked it up and took it on a flatbed to the Ediburgh service centre for replacement and provided a Model S as a courtesy car, so can't complain there either.

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31 minutes ago, Lorielus said:

That's now a year I've had the Model 3 (just about - the eax reminder has arrived).

It's been the easiest car to live with I've had by a mile.  I thought it was superb when I initially got it - then I went over to Arran for a weekend in April on their resurfaced roads over there and instantly became 17 again.  The handling and acceleration out of the corners is basically like playing Forza - I know it's the computer adjusting the power to each wheel so it's not my skill but the car - and couldn't care less, the thing's a joy.

I know at this point I pretty much sound like a shill, but I'm really not convinced you can get a better car than that until you get to something like 80k+.  The range is the limiter of course, but I've certainly had no problems getting around all of Scotland - the nav system tracks all chargers rather than just the superchargers, and all the ones I've used have been chargepoint scotland enabled so as simple to use as a petrol pump basically.

I had one maintenance issue - of all things, the bog standard 12V battery was faulty - they picked it up and took it on a flatbed to the Ediburgh service centre for replacement and provided a Model S as a courtesy car, so can't complain there either.

I heard they were shutting the Edinburgh centre and the alternative was Manchester? for a service . Was a major reason we didn’t look into Tesla further. 

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I was at the supercharger today. On my bicycle. Don't ask. And a mobile service vehicle pulled in to supercharge. Had a chunk of parts in the back, seemed a nice idea to have that come out to you rather than going through to Edinburgh for a 12v battery.

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13 hours ago, Bonbon19 said:

I heard they were shutting the Edinburgh centre and the alternative was Manchester? for a service . Was a major reason we didn’t look into Tesla further. 

I haven't heard anything about Edinburgh, but there's in one opening in Glasgow, think it was supposed to open in June but as with all things covid has delayed it.

They do also have mobile service while it's under warranty, free if you're more than X miles from a centre (I can't remember off the top of my head what the value of X is there, but definitely wasn't outside X to Edinburgh from the Irvine Valley).

Edited by Lorielus
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13 hours ago, Lroy said:

What did you think of it compared to the 3? If I had money for either I really think I'd pick the 3 over the S. Or maybe hold out for the Y.

It's hard to directly compare as the S was a first-gen one so the build quality defintely wasn't as good.  The inside definitely isn't as luxurious or minimalist in feel as the 3 (the S has the tablet in the centre but also a full normal(ish) dashboard where the 3 just has the central tablet (took a bit of getting used to, but I really like the extra visibility).

I also didn't stretch the legs of the S at all as it was after lockdown started so it was just a couple of supermarket runs - the handling definitely wallowed more than the 3 (which is very stable and flat) on the country roads (I live in the middle of nowhere outside of Darvel), but again that might just be the age/wear rather than representative of the S.  Given it was a courtesy car, it's probably not had a gentle life either in fairness.

Overall - with the caveat that I didn't do many miles in it - it feels a bit more like a big mondeo (the good kind rather than the oiringal mondeos) or the like rather than the 3 which feels a bit more like a sports saloon.

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