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8 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Correct.

A blind man can see the crowds are well up, 25-30% easy.

We got almost 1,000 more home fans for a midweek game against St Johnstone during a run of home games this month than we got FIRST game of the season on a weekend against the same side.

We all want more but folk slagging the crowds and moaning about folk not coming back are well wide of the mark IMO. Crowds are well up. We aren't going to all of a sudden get double our crowd. Just like our crowd didn't just fall from 6000 to 3000 overnight.

It's getting tedious.

In what way is 412 "almost 1000"?

There's creative accountancy and there's, well to quote Oldkillie, 's**te talk' 

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17 hours ago, All the Wine said:

What would you expect a reasonable increase to be? 

I've yet to see you give a figure, mind you I skip by the large percentage of your posts on this as they tend to be a bit repetitive, so apologies if you've mentioned it somewhere 

Given that we were getting 3700 plus home fans at the end of last season after MJ left, I would have said 5000 should have been achievable. That would only return us to what were achieving for many years after the nineties. If we get home gates of 4000 we are barely up from the end of last season. People keep talking about "gradual". If it's too gradual Sir Steve will be long gone before we get there and we might be back to square one. Another poster predict ps that what we'll be at by the end of the season. I'd be delighted if he was correct. I'm inclined to think the whole situation now rests on season ticket sales to get a sustained improvement. 

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It's fine to debate the size of our attendances (although it is a bit repetitive as the same points for and against are being raised time and time again).

However, we need to avoid the over simplistic equation that bigger crowds equals Steve Clarke staying. He did not come to Kilmarnock because we had a huge support and I doubt whether our average home gates are 4K, 5k or 6k will determine whether or not he would remain with us if he received an attractive offer from elsewhere. 

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33 minutes ago, historyman said:

However, we need to avoid the over simplistic equation that bigger crowds equals Steve Clarke staying. 

I don’t think that was McLean’s point. 

He can correct me if I’m wrong but I think he meant that, if the increase continues to be so gradual, his two and a half years might be up before the gates have reached a decent level. 

 

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2 hours ago, historyman said:

It's fine to debate the size of our attendances (although it is a bit repetitive as the same points for and against are being raised time and time again).

However, we need to avoid the over simplistic equation that bigger crowds equals Steve Clarke staying. He did not come to Kilmarnock because we had a huge support and I doubt whether our average home gates are 4K, 5k or 6k will determine whether or not he would remain with us if he received an attractive offer from elsewhere. 

Correct he will leave in the future no matter what the gates go up to

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No amount of wishful thinking, pleading or bitching will bring more fans to the ground. They will either come back or they won't.

The players and manager have a role to play in being successful, the fans have a role to play in making Rugby Park a positive and atmospheric place to make people want to come back.

It will be what it will be. As always, the fans need to make the most of what it is.

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11 hours ago, skygod said:

I don’t think that was McLean’s point. 

He can correct me if I’m wrong but I think he meant that, if the increase continues to be so gradual, his two and a half years might be up before the gates have reached a decent level. 

 

No, I don't think so. To quote McLean from 10th March for example:

'why should Steve Clarke feel he should stay to create a legacy if no one is buying into it in any meaningful way'

I don't think that could be any more obvious.  

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33 minutes ago, historyman said:

No, I don't think so. To quote McLean from 10th March for example:

'why should Steve Clarke feel he should stay to create a legacy if no one is buying into it in any meaningful way'

I don't think that could be any more obvious.  

The people Steve Clarke REALLY wants to buy into his philosophy are the players at the club.Given the results there can be NO doubt that the players have signed up to the SC philosophy. It is these guys liveliehood so really should be no surprise they want to do well.Other than bragging rights there is little benefit to supporters in attending games. IMO bragging rights and enjoyment of the win is worthwhile so hopefully the small gains in attendance will continue.

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11 hours ago, Graeme S said:

The people Steve Clarke REALLY wants to buy into his philosophy are the players at the club.Given the results there can be NO doubt that the players have signed up to the SC philosophy. It is these guys liveliehood so really should be no surprise they want to do well.Other than bragging rights there is little benefit to supporters in attending games. IMO bragging rights and enjoyment of the win is worthwhile so hopefully the small gains in attendance will continue.

Those last two sentences..........as George Bush once said......that was some weird sh1t....

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4 hours ago, Brianstorm said:

As an aside, what does "bitching" mean 

I'll take you at face value that it isn't a tedious trolling/fishing attempt, but it's quite clear in the context the word was used that it means complaining.

Dictionary.com has it as "Slang. to complain; gripe [as in] "They bitched about the service, then about the bill."

and here it's "A spiteful criticism or complaint."

While Cambridge Dictionary gives it as "[very informal] the act of complaining or talking unkindly about people."

Of course, Oxford gives us bitching defined as "excellent" but, given the context, this seems unlikely.

As an aside, you can get plug-ins for Chrome and Firefox that allow to check the meaning of words that might confuse you without leaving the page.

Edited by kevin1869
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image.png.54e7da1f6a6098926fb1c36598efa969.png

"A blind man can see our crowds are up, 25-30% easy". The brutal truth is that our crowds aren't even up by the SPFL average. It's obvious that there has been little or no reward for the Board and theTrust's magnificent efforts in securing the services of Steve Clarke. Even more surprising given our form is as good as we can ever expect it to get. Obviously some clubs can get a substantial increase without having anything like the boost we've had and don't have to wait for ever for their fans to "gradually come back. Sorry to bore you all again, but to improve its important to use proper facts and realise how much improvement is truly needed. Our crowds also benefit from larger old firm supports. 

The season ticket sales can't come quickly enough.

* excludes the conspiracy theory that every club, apart from Killie, falsely overstate their attendances and Killie are the only club that understate their attendances.

* Discounts the claim that " it was busier where I was sitting  " so the attendance must be bigger than stated.

* The away support has definitely improved which suggests the core support is enthused, but the stay aways, old or new, haven't responded.

* We await to see if there is any spin off from the much improved attendance at the Aberdeen match

 

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1 hour ago, Mclean07 said:

image.png.54e7da1f6a6098926fb1c36598efa969.png

"A blind man can see our crowds are up, 25-30% easy". The brutal truth is that our crowds aren't even up by the SPFL average. It's obvious that there has been little or no reward for the Board and theTrust's magnificent efforts in securing the services of Steve Clarke. Even more surprising given our form is as good as we can ever expect it to get. Obviously some clubs can get a substantial increase without having anything like the boost we've had and don't have to wait for ever for their fans to "gradually come back. Sorry to bore you all again, but to improve its important to use proper facts and realise how much improvement is truly needed. Our crowds also benefit from larger old firm supports. 

The season ticket sales can't come quickly enough.

* excludes the conspiracy theory that every club, apart from Killie, falsely overstate their attendances and Killie are the only club that understate their attendances.

* Discounts the claim that " it was busier where I was sitting  " so the attendance must be bigger than stated.

* The away support has definitely improved which suggests the core support is enthused, but the stay aways, old or new, haven't responded.

* We await to see if there is any spin off from the much improved attendance at the Aberdeen match

 

Sorry but those average figures for 17/18 are complete fabrication. 

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On ‎23‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 11:37 PM, Candygram for mongo said:

In what way is 412 "almost 1000"?

There's creative accountancy and there's, well to quote Oldkillie, 's**te talk' 

St Johnstone had 400 or something a the first game of the season and ¼ of that at the midweek game.

 

Our “home” crowd was up around 700 or so on the previous fixture and it was midweek. My 1,000 might have been a tad high but my point still stands re crowd being well up on the corresponding fixture. Especially given one was first game of the season and one was midweek in a run of home games and cup games.

 

So if you are going to pull me up for figures, at least make sure your figures add up.  Especially as I specifically said “Home support”

 

So in your own words, “talk s**te” and certainly creative accountancy from you. That or an inability to understand the word "home"  

 

 

 

Edited by Squirrelhumper
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McLean...what's your angle here? What is it you actually get out of banging this drum? The people you communicate with on here, by and large, attend games. Your ever-present message seems to be for those who aren't or haven't. We get it, we would all love for Motherwell's 30% increase in attendance (which I completely don't believe, by the way) since Sir Steve came in, but it's not realistic. 8 years of mediocrity does not get turned around in 6 months.

You are constant. It is about the only positive thing I can think of when describing your 'attendance' on this forum, but it makes me weary. You seem to think if you say something often enough, it becomes truth. You've previously been utterly discredited in the past. 

I just don't understand why you absolutely have to bring something negative to the current positivity party we're having, just so you can be all 'told you so' if/when something negative eventually happens.

Consider this a massive bite for you. Well done. Hope you get many joy joy feelings from it.

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Why don't we all just accept the reality of our 'home crowd' attendance's since MJ left and SC has came in as has been said it is not going to be an overnight transformation but a longer term one to encourage back the fans who for whatever reason are doing other things rather than attend.I also agree that the majority of us who post on here already attend because we want to,can afford to or probably have bought into our great club over the past five /six really s***e seasons and are 'true Killie fans' who would all like to believe that many of the lapsed fans will come back to join us.  Let's hope so!!

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3 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

image.png.54e7da1f6a6098926fb1c36598efa969.png

"A blind man can see our crowds are up, 25-30% easy". The brutal truth is that our crowds aren't even up by the SPFL average. It's obvious that there has been little or no reward for the Board and theTrust's magnificent efforts in securing the services of Steve Clarke. Even more surprising given our form is as good as we can ever expect it to get. Obviously some clubs can get a substantial increase without having anything like the boost we've had and don't have to wait for ever for their fans to "gradually come back. Sorry to bore you all again, but to improve its important to use proper facts and realise how much improvement is truly needed. Our crowds also benefit from larger old firm supports. 

The season ticket sales can't come quickly enough.

* excludes the conspiracy theory that every club, apart from Killie, falsely overstate their attendances and Killie are the only club that understate their attendances.

* Discounts the claim that " it was busier where I was sitting  " so the attendance must be bigger than stated.

* The away support has definitely improved which suggests the core support is enthused, but the stay aways, old or new, haven't responded.

* We await to see if there is any spin off from the much improved attendance at the Aberdeen match

 

There you go again.....has SC been in charge all season?

Compare like for like.

That's why I used St Johnstone as we've played them both under Jig and SC.

Likewise, do same comparison on Saturday against Hamilton against the crowd we got in August/September under Jig

You seriously using the average attendance over the full season when SC wasn't in charge for the first 8 games to try and prove a point?! Deary me.

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7 minutes ago, Bullitt said:

They're all wrong. I don't even need to check the figures to see that most for both seasons are inaccurate. Accies averaging 3k... Aberdeen filling their entire stadium etc etc.

Absolute nonsense.

Aye Aberdeen being 3k up on last season (their best season in a couple of decades in the league) is some change!

There's also no way on this earth County average 4600. Stadium is about 2/3rds empty every time we go up there. In fact, midweek in December I'd have said they were lucky to have 2k there but crowd was announced about double that!

 

 

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Just now, Squirrelhumper said:

Aye Aberdeen being 3k up on last season (their best season in a couple of decades in the league) is some change!

There's also no way on this earth County average 4600. Stadium is about 2/3rds empty every time we go up there. In fact, midweek in December I'd have said they were lucky to have 2k there but crowd was announced about double that!

 

 

Done a quick check. They've taken the highest league attendance for each club, added the lowest attendance and then divided it by two... 

Some would call that quick maths, others would call it lazy and inaccurate!

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2 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Aye Aberdeen being 3k up on last season (their best season in a couple of decades in the league) is some change!

There's also no way on this earth County average 4600. Stadium is about 2/3rds empty every time we go up there. In fact, midweek in December I'd have said they were lucky to have 2k there but crowd was announced about double that!

 

 

Additionally some clubs count season ticket holders in the numbers rather than bums on seats. So once again the figures completely fall down.

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8 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

It's obvious that there has been little or no reward for the Board and theTrust's magnificent efforts in securing the services of Steve Clarke. Even more surprising given our form is as good as we can ever expect it to get. Obviously some clubs can get a substantial increase without having anything like the boost we've had and don't have to wait for ever for their fans to "gradually come back. Sorry to bore you all again, but to improve its important to use proper facts and realise how much improvement is truly needed. Our crowds also benefit from larger old firm supports. 

The season ticket sales can't come quickly enough.

* excludes the conspiracy theory that every club, apart from Killie, falsely overstate their attendances and Killie are the only club that understate their attendances.

* Discounts the claim that " it was busier where I was sitting  " so the attendance must be bigger than stated.

* The away support has definitely improved which suggests the core support is enthused, but the stay aways, old or new, haven't responded.

* We await to see if there is any spin off from the much improved attendance at the Aberdeen match

 

I absolutely agree - in order to improve it is important to use proper facts. So, unlike you, I'll do just that. Below is a month by month comparison of average league attendances comparing this season to last season. I've excluded games against Celtic and Rangers as they are outliers.

(Source for these stats are Wikipedia (here and here), primarily because the numbers were easier to extract. I do accept that they are entered by human beans and may be subject to error)

Month 2016-17 2017-18 Difference % change
         
August 4308 4059 -249 -6.00%
September 4169 3395 -774 -18.6
October 4255 5005 750 17.6
November 3387 4198 811 23.9
December 3322 4259 937 28.2
January 3207 N/A N/A N/A
February 3972 4558 586 14.8
Edited by Scooby_Doo
Added sauce
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