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Would you rather


Dillinger

Would you rather ...  

191 members have voted

  1. 1. Playoffs

    • Livingston
      91
    • Partick Thistle
      100


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5 minutes ago, Killie lad said:

Spot on, I wonder what these guys thought of 'scottish football needs a strong rangers' I'm guessing they agreed? 

I assume you were happy with the split fixtures where we were shafted out of another fixture against Rangers?

I assume the club statement re it you completely disagreed with?

Like it or not away fans and walk up paying supporters add to our financial outlook. Moaning about fans who see the bigger picture and highlight it adds zero weight to your arguments.

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7 minutes ago, Bullitt said:

I assume you were happy with the split fixtures where we were shafted out of another fixture against Rangers?

I assume the club statement re it you completely disagreed with?

Like it or not away fans and walk up paying supporters add to our financial outlook. Moaning about fans who see the bigger picture and highlight it adds zero weight to your arguments.

I would have preferred rangers at home because i think we'd have had a better chance at winning, that's all, they can keep their 'blue pound' for all I care, hope they go bust against  

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Just now, Killie lad said:

I would have preferred rangers at home because i think we'd have had a better chance at winning, that's all, they can keep their 'blue pound' for all I care, hope they go bust against  

As do I... I hate them. But as you mentioned their 'blue pound' is useful for us.

Same applies to bigger clubs. It's financially better for us. I'm happy Livi went up... Fair play to them they deserve it. But in my opinion, I'd rather have Dunfermline and United in the league rather than Accies and St Johnstone as an example.

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Our support seem to be very good at patting ourselves on the back an looking down at others. Let's be honest for a minute, are we any better than those we are slagging off? I watched fan owned Motherwell in their second cup final yesterday and although they never got a result the backing they got was brilliant to watch and the majority of those don't just go to games but financially back the club which they now own. Our fans are all mouth and talk a good game but when it comes to the crunch we are just part timers who turn up for a day out when we fancy it but take no responsibility whatsoever for our own club. Compared to the likes of Motherwell we are a total embarrassment, we may not like it but that is a fact. We actually put more money into other club's coffers through our loyal away support than most but we can't be talked into supporting our own fans organisations efforts to boost our own club. If the same percentage of our fans backed our fan ownership scheme as Motherwell's then maybe we'd have a right to slag off these other teams. We have too many fans and not enough supporters. We're right up there with the best, until we have to put our hand in our pockets, then its someone else's job. Billy Bowie must shake his head at our fans unwillingness to support the club financially, why should he be footing the bill for hospitality upgrades, are we back in the 1990's and beyond?

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I think there are loads of reasons to not wanting Livi up, their football will be difficult to watch as the likely hood of them keeping the better players from this squad is small,  the way they went into Liquidation was shameful, people losing jobs, not being paid, taking over Meadowbank Thistles post in the hope that they could chip away at the population. A lot of people lost a lot of money on the "football club" that is Livingston.

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I'd rather have the away day at Thistle, but a change is good for Scottish football. Livi and St Mirren get more money and the chance to being something different. County, United, ICT, Thistle and the like will have to try something different and rebuild. All good for the game. I'll be interested in watching plenty Championship games next season  too. 

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13 minutes ago, killie billies pal said:

I think there are loads of reasons to not wanting Livi up, their football will be difficult to watch as the likely hood of them keeping the better players from this squad is small,  the way they went into Liquidation was shameful, people losing jobs, not being paid, taking over Meadowbank Thistles post in the hope that they could chip away at the population. A lot of people lost a lot of money on the "football club" that is Livingston.

No, they lost money on the football club that WAS Livingston. In the same way as Sevco are a different club to the team that was liquidated.

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13 minutes ago, Culley159 said:

Our support seem to be very good at patting ourselves on the back an looking down at others. Let's be honest for a minute, are we any better than those we are slagging off? I watched fan owned Motherwell in their second cup final yesterday and although they never got a result the backing they got was brilliant to watch and the majority of those don't just go to games but financially back the club which they now own. Our fans are all mouth and talk a good game but when it comes to the crunch we are just part timers who turn up for a day out when we fancy it but take no responsibility whatsoever for our own club. Compared to the likes of Motherwell we are a total embarrassment, we may not like it but that is a fact. We actually put more money into other club's coffers through our loyal away support than most but we can't be talked into supporting our own fans organisations efforts to boost our own club. If the same percentage of our fans backed our fan ownership scheme as Motherwell's then maybe we'd have a right to slag off these other teams. We have too many fans and not enough supporters. We're right up there with the best, until we have to put our hand in our pockets, then its someone else's job. Billy Bowie must shake his head at our fans unwillingness to support the club financially, why should he be footing the bill for hospitality upgrades, are we back in the 1990's and beyond?

You seem pretty good at patting yourself on the back. I have some news for you some people just want to watch football at Killie rather than wake up in a cold sweat over who is running the club.

Some people like me just don't buy into the TIK. I have admiration for those that run it and believe in it however I have other things to spend my money on than Killie. Under your definition I am a lesser fan despite me holding a season ticket and investing money through merchandise and supporting the club around the country.

Having a holier than thou attitude set backs your cause more than it helps.   

Also why would Bowie be shaking his head at us almost surpassing our season ticket number from last year in two weeks. That to me is a sign that fans are willing to back the club financially? Or the amount of club merchandise I see when I travel around Ayrshire ? 

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A wouldn’t worry about there football style as there manager is out of contract next week and he’s going to be flavour of the month for any jobs that come up.Even going back into the championship with better resources will be more appealing than getting humped every week

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15 minutes ago, Jimmy Superscot said:

No, they lost money on the football club that WAS Livingston. In the same way as Sevco are a different club to the team that was liquidated.

Oh right, because so much has changed down Govan way. Just like with The Rangers Football Club i will dislike Livingston, who, as i said  before were born out of a team being properly liquidated.

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43 minutes ago, Secret Squirrel said:

You seem pretty good at patting yourself on the back. I have some news for you some people just want to watch football at Killie rather than wake up in a cold sweat over who is running the club.

Some people like me just don't buy into the TIK. I have admiration for those that run it and believe in it however I have other things to spend my money on than Killie. Under your definition I am a lesser fan despite me holding a season ticket and investing money through merchandise and supporting the club around the country.

Having a holier than thou attitude set backs your cause more than it helps.   

Also why would Bowie be shaking his head at us almost surpassing our season ticket number from last year in two weeks. That to me is a sign that fans are willing to back the club financially? Or the amount of club merchandise I see when I travel around Ayrshire ? 

What would have happened to St Mirren or Motherwell if the majority of their fans "just didn't buy into" what ultimately saved their clubs? What if they all had other things to spend their money on as well? I have too, don't we all, but I think that the £15 a month I pay in is an investment in the future of my club, its going to be the difference between surviving and actually doing something as its the extra the club needs to free up finds to support the manager and his squad. It's nothing to do with running the club, that's you just admitting that you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Still you got a few likes on a fans forum - way to go you!

I'm not saying you are a lesser fan, I'm saying you're a fan and not a supporter any more. Sadly just buying your season ticket and a replica strip now and then just isn't enough these days, I agree it should be, but I'm not daft enough to think that it is. I see the writing on the wall, while you choose to ignore it. I don't have a holier than thou attitude and I couldn't give a buggery what you or anyone else do as individual, you made this about you, I'm talking about our support as a whole so get over yourself. It's not my cause either, but I do support it because things are not magically going to go back to the way they were when we were boys. Change is happening and it is not a return to the way things were in the past.

If Steve Clarke was lured away to another club before the season starts we would fold like a pack of cards.

Think about that. That's the truth no one wants to handle and that's a stupid position to be in. As long as guys like you are happy to plod along doing what you always do and leave the thinking to someone else then other teams will move forward and we will start to slide. It took the threat of extinction to motivate fans of other clubs into action, are we really that stupid that we can't take their story as a lesson and do something about it before we get in the same state? If you think that Billy Bowie is pleased at having to pay for all the upgrades himself you clearly don't know him, or know people. The season ticket figures released are because we started selling weeks early so they are not like for like, and we have no idea how much the walk ups will be down as a result. Sales are good news, but not great news and won't be for a while. Our next managerial appointment will actually be just as crucial as this one was.

Its the sticking our heads in the sand attitude that we'll regret when things (as they inevitably do) start catching up with us. I'm investing now so we have a club to support in the decades to come, not just the season ahead.

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7 minutes ago, Culley159 said:

What would have happened to St Mirren or Motherwell if the majority of their fans "just didn't buy into" what ultimately saved their clubs? What if they all had other things to spend their money on as well? I have too, don't we all, but I think that the £15 a month I pay in is an investment in the future of my club, its going to be the difference between surviving and actually doing something as its the extra the club needs to free up finds to support the manager and his squad. It's nothing to do with running the club, that's you just admitting that you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Still you got a few likes on a fans forum - way to go you!

I'm not saying you are a lesser fan, I'm saying you're a fan and not a supporter any more. Sadly just buying your season ticket and a replica strip now and then just isn't enough these days, I agree it should be, but I'm not daft enough to think that it is. I see the writing on the wall, while you choose to ignore it. I don't have a holier than thou attitude and I couldn't give a buggery what you or anyone else do as individual, you made this about you, I'm talking about our support as a whole so get over yourself. It's not my cause either, but I do support it because things are not magically going to go back to the way they were when we were boys. Change is happening and it is not a return to the way things were in the past.

If Steve Clarke was lured away to another club before the season starts we would fold like a pack of cards.

Think about that. That's the truth no one wants to handle and that's a stupid position to be in. As long as guys like you are happy to plod along doing what you always do and leave the thinking to someone else then other teams will move forward and we will start to slide. It took the threat of extinction to motivate fans of other clubs into action, are we really that stupid that we can't take their story as a lesson and do something about it before we get in the same state? If you think that Billy Bowie is pleased at having to pay for all the upgrades himself you clearly don't know him, or know people. The season ticket figures released are because we started selling weeks early so they are not like for like, and we have no idea how much the walk ups will be down as a result. Sales are good news, but not great news and won't be for a while. Our next managerial appointment will actually be just as crucial as this one was.

Its the sticking our heads in the sand attitude that we'll regret when things (as they inevitably do) start catching up with us. I'm investing now so we have a club to support in the decades to come, not just the season ahead.

Calm doon!

 

Most of us here just like going to the game on a Saturday and an away game now and again if it’s an attractive enough fixture. We’ll stick our hands in our pockets if the queue for the pies is mercifully short and we’ll happily buy some tat from the Club shop if the two wee wimmin haven’t broken the till or shut early. 

 

Sticking an extra £15 a month into TIK is admirable but if you think it’ll keep a hold of Steve Clarke, Jordan Jones or even Adam Frizzel, think again. 

Calling out supporters for ‘only’ buying a season ticket is nonsense, as you should know. 

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5 minutes ago, Culley159 said:

What would have happened to St Mirren or Motherwell if the majority of their fans "just didn't buy into" what ultimately saved their clubs? What if they all had other things to spend their money on as well? I have too, don't we all, but I think that the £15 a month I pay in is an investment in the future of my club, its going to be the difference between surviving and actually doing something as its the extra the club needs to free up finds to support the manager and his squad. It's nothing to do with running the club, that's you just admitting that you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Still you got a few likes on a fans forum - way to go you!

 I'm not saying you are a lesser fan, I'm saying you're a fan and not a supporter any more. Sadly just buying your season ticket and a replica strip now and then just isn't enough these days, I agree it should be, but I'm not daft enough to think that it is. I see the writing on the wall, while you choose to ignore it. I don't have a holier than thou attitude and I couldn't give a buggery what you or anyone else do as individual, you made this about you, I'm talking about our support as a whole so get over yourself. It's not my cause either, but I do support it because things are not magically going to go back to the way they were when we were boys. Change is happening and it is not a return to the way things were in the past.

 If Steve Clarke was lured away to another club before the season starts we would fold like a pack of cards.

Think about that. That's the truth no one wants to handle and that's a stupid position to be in. As long as guys like you are happy to plod along doing what you always do and leave the thinking to someone else then other teams will move forward and we will start to slide. It took the threat of extinction to motivate fans of other clubs into action, are we really that stupid that we can't take their story as a lesson and do something about it before we get in the same state? If you think that Billy Bowie is pleased at having to pay for all the upgrades himself you clearly don't know him, or know people. The season ticket figures released are because we started selling weeks early so they are not like for like, and we have no idea how much the walk ups will be down as a result. Sales are good news, but not great news and won't be for a while. Our next managerial appointment will actually be just as crucial as this one was.

 Its the sticking our heads in the sand attitude that we'll regret when things (as they inevitably do) start catching up with us. I'm investing now so we have a club to support in the decades to come, not just the season ahead.

First I'm not making it about me. You stated that unless we pay our £15 then we are 'fans' not supporters. That is a narrow definition and clearly thanks to the up vote systems you will see my points resonated with quite a few people.

Secondly do you have proof that Bowie is paying for all these upgrades? I for one would think a business that has made a profit of nearing a £1 million as well as expecting an increase of income due to a new sponsorship deal, increased attendances and higher league payments would be investing in a better experience and new sources of income as any business with growth would do. 

Thirdly the success of fan ownership has a rocky history in this country. Motherwell are successful because they appointed a manager that has assembled a squad that has blended well and play a direct style of football very well. There off-field success is down to having a fan as chief exec that is very passionate about the club that has worked there since they were privately owned. He in turn has appointed people like Grant Russell that has lead a social media revolution similar to what Scott McClymont has done here. These in my opinion have nothing to do with being fan owned. Rather the by-product of appointing the right people to the right roles. 

I wont comment on St Mirren as I don't know enough about what they have done.

Killie will be maintained as a club by the 'fans' who have for the near 150 years of our existence have bought strips, tickets, sponsorship etc and followed the team throughout the country.

Finally the way you view your fellow fans is pretty toxic and is not conductive of the environment I expect of Killie. There is no class system of fans. There people who only show up for cup finals and then there's fans/supporters who make the effort to go to as many games as they can.

I applaud you for writing a response rather than just giving me a red card. Its clear we wont agree but I hope you take some of my points on board.    

 

                  

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38 minutes ago, Secret Squirrel said:

Killie will be maintained as a club by the 'fans' who have for the near 150 years of our existence have bought strips, tickets, sponsorship etc and followed the team throughout the country. 

That's where you are wrong. Those days are gone my friend. I wish you were right but you're not. You either move with the times or you get left behind in the dust. That's not being toxic, that's being realistic and getting ahead of the game rather than have to firefight in the future. By the time you and others who think like you realise this it will be too late and we'll be like the Dundees of the world shaking buckets for loose change to get by. I note that you never commented on my Stevie Clarke line - probably because that's too close to the knuckle. Again, this is not just about you, I worry that our "sleeping giant" of a club is more reflective of our support than the club itself. We're kidding ourselves on that everything is fine and dandy and on the up, all it takes is one decent offer and we have no back up plan, none, all our eggs are in the one basket and that's a precarious situation to be in. Fan ownership only has a rocky history as soon as the fans involved lose faith and invite private investment back in to a situation they have no controlling interest. I am commenting because I have read up on it before committing a monthly stipend. The likes of Dundee, Notts County etc. all fell foul of selling out for hard cash and useless promises and then failing all over again, Swansea could be next to go because they were happy to stick with 20% and the other private investors sold it out from under them for profit. It won't happen for us for decades yet, but it won't happen at all unless we have teh courage of our convictions and realise that its our club as much as it is the directors and we have a moral obligation to the next generations not to just sit back and leave the dirty work to the club board. I hope you can take some of my points on board, getting a few likes on the forums does not mean your point of view is valid, sadly its is far worse than that in real terms, the lack of support for anything that the club or the trust does tells its own story. Player sponsors lunch relegated to the Park Suite because the hotel is too big, lack of numbers at the recent dinner and the club golf day, its not just TIK that we are blasé about and if we don't stop kidding ourselves on that we are great supports (me included) then we won't get anywhere near the response we need to keep Clarke interested and operational.

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2 hours ago, Secret Squirrel said:

Having a holier than thou attitude set backs your cause more than it helps.  

I find that quite perverse. Why would any Killie fan be put off investing in the Trust/Club because another fan is saying they believe it is the way forward? "I don't like your attitude so no way am I getting involved even if it does help!" That's all a bit cutting your nose of to spite your face if you ask me, all a wee bit immature. If that's going to stop people then we have a much bigger task than I imagined. What does make the people of Motherwell and Paisley believe in something that we clearly in the majority don't? Is it because they've both been a lot nearer to folding than we have? They're certainly not more intelligent than us!

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