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Mclean07

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Ok, so I did know about this. What it seems I’m struggling with I’d the connection between TIK, trust in killie ( which I now realise is the TIK), trust membership and the link between the trust and the club. In principal, I’m happy to make a greater financial contribution for the benefit of Kilmarnock football club. What does investment in TiK deliver in this regard above buying shares directly in the club? To the earlier post, these “ independent” initiatives usually thrive when a club is at odds with its supporters and there a vote of no confidence in the board. I get that. But if we are “as one” with the right chairman, board and manager, why should I give my 3 grand to TiK rather than directly to the club. I need to understand what the initiative really adds more clearly before I could invest. I realise I must be missing a fundamental point.

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It might help if we ever get a fan on the board as promised when we met the target. I pay every month but don't see much happening. Hardly going to entice new subscribers.

We have an actual date for the announcement now...we'll have to ask whether its okay to mention it. :$ I know...out of our hands.

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There appears to be a common theme here. I think once the fan is on the board KFC themselves need to step up regarding the marketing. They’ve got the biggest audience and  potential influence on that audience. I assume that this will still have to be lead by the Trust though. 

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The guys at TiK have done a tremendous job to get this far. It is in the interest of the Club to promote this more and more now as it is an income stream every year they didn't have before.

Hopefully we can see more and more joint ventures between the club and fans to take us to the next level. We are rebuilding something great now, so let's get right behind TiK and rebuild our club to where we belong.

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The guys at TiK have done a tremendous job to get this far. It is in the interest of the Club to promote this more and more now as it is an income stream every year they didn't have before.

Hopefully we can see more and more joint ventures between the club and fans to take us to the next level. We are rebuilding something great now, so let's get right behind TiK and rebuild our club to where we belong.

Couldn’t agree more mate 

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Red cards at the ready.

 

Personally I don’t see TiK as the way forward. I know I’m probably very much in the minority on here but when it comes to influencing big changes at board room level what power exactly do TiK expect to have. One fan board member v 4 board members who don’t vote or speak on behalf of hundreds, potentially thousands of people, they just make their own minds up and push their vision of what’s best for the club. From what I’ve seen the board all have the clubs best interests at heart. The trust board member has the thankless task of trying to keep lots of people, all with different opinions and ideas of what’s best and what’s not, happy. Never gonna happen. While the inevitable infighting ensues among fans disagreeing with the direction TiK should be going, the rest of the board look on thinking “it really doesn’t matter which way this guy votes, take the money, give him his token vote and then we can get on with things”. Of course they are going to support money coming in exchange for very little. Also clubs that have traditionally went down this route have been in big trouble financially, we aren’t and are in no more danger of becoming so than any other team other Celtic, what’s the need for changing how our club is run now? What we have is a well run business so it if ain’t broke why fix it? I have seen people point out that the fans should take responsibility, again that argument doesn’t stand up with me. I buy my season tickets every year, buy the kids the kits etc, so as a fan what responsibility do I have? If I own something and other people like it, it doesn’t mean they should share responsibility for it. I’m a fan of Still Game, Irn Bru, and Budweiser does that mean I should financially support them other than buying their products? 

 

I am certainly not saying that people should be knocked for backing it, just as those who don’t shouldn’t be. As a lifelong fan and season ticket holder for most of my 32 years on earth I shouldn’t be embarrassed to not support TiK and it doesn’t make anyone who does support it a bigger fan than someone who doesn’t. 

 

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to give a different opinion, I might be the only one that feels this way but that’s what it’s all about at the end of the day, a killie forum where everyone agreed would be very boring indeed.

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Red cards at the ready.

 

Personally I don’t see TiK as the way forward. I know I’m probably very much in the minority on here but when it comes to influencing big changes at board room level what power exactly do TiK expect to have. One fan board member v 4 board members who don’t vote or speak on behalf of hundreds, potentially thousands of people, they just make their own minds up and push their vision of what’s best for the club. From what I’ve seen the board all have the clubs best interests at heart. The trust board member has the thankless task of trying to keep lots of people, all with different opinions and ideas of what’s best and what’s not, happy. Never gonna happen. While the inevitable infighting ensues among fans disagreeing with the direction TiK should be going, the rest of the board look on thinking “it really doesn’t matter which way this guy votes, take the money, give him his token vote and then we can get on with things”. Of course they are going to support money coming in exchange for very little. Also clubs that have traditionally went down this route have been in big trouble financially, we aren’t and are in no more danger of becoming so than any other team other Celtic, what’s the need for changing how our club is run now? What we have is a well run business so it if ain’t broke why fix it? I have seen people point out that the fans should take responsibility, again that argument doesn’t stand up with me. I buy my season tickets every year, buy the kids the kits etc, so as a fan what responsibility do I have? If I own something and other people like it, it doesn’t mean they should share responsibility for it. I’m a fan of Still Game, Irn Bru, and Budweiser does that mean I should financially support them other than buying their products? 

 

I am certainly not saying that people should be knocked for backing it, just as those who don’t shouldn’t be. As a lifelong fan and season ticket holder for most of my 32 years on earth I shouldn’t be embarrassed to not support TiK and it doesn’t make anyone who does support it a bigger fan than someone who doesn’t. 

 

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to give a different opinion, I might be the only one that feels this way but that’s what it’s all about at the end of the day, a killie forum where everyone agreed would be very boring indeed.

I don't think the TIK board member would be on the board for voting reasons, more of puting forward ideas to assist in the running of the club from a fans perspective. 

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The trust board member has the thankless task of trying to keep lots of people, all with different opinions and ideas of what’s best and what’s not, happy. Never gonna happen. ........What we have is a well run business so it if ain’t broke why fix it? ........as a fan what responsibility do I have? If I own something and other people like it, it doesn’t mean they should share responsibility for it. I’m a fan of Still Game, Irn Bru, and Budweiser does that mean I should financially support them other than buying their products?  

 

As I understand it, the Trust board  member won't be answerable to anyone or responsible for keeping anybody happy.

They will be on the board because they have the skill set, acumen and common sense to make decisions in the best interest of the club. However, they should have more insight into what the supporters are thinking and would like to see the club do.

Do we have well a run club? The last accounts showed a profit before tax of about £1m but this could be explained by transfer fees and other windfalls. What if the accounts next year show a loss? Do we no longer have a well run club? Could the club cope with relegation? How are we going to fund the Project Brave requirements? Where's the money for a new pitch coming from?

Sorry, but that sounds like complacency to me.

What responsibility do you have? Well, I'm hoping that your life would be poorer without Killie than it would without Still Game, Irn Bru, and Budweiser, for all of which there are alternatives available!  

The club is ours and we are, for now, the guardians of it in the way that the supporters in the 19th and 20th centuries preserved the club so that we could enjoy it. I'm sure supporters of Third Lanark, for example, wish they still had a club they could be responsible for.

 

Edited by skygod
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Still Game, Irn Bru, and Budweiser, for all of which there are alternatives available!  

 

As I understand it, the Trust board  member won't be answerable to anyone or responsible for keeping anybody happy.

They will be on the board because they have the skill set, acumen and common sense to make decisions in the best interest of the club. However, they should have more insight into what the supporters are thinking and would like to see the club do.

Do we have well a run club? The last accounts showed a profit before tax of about £1m but this could be explained by transfer fees and other windfalls. What if the account next year show a loss? Do we no longer have a well run club? Could the club cope with relegation? How are we going to fund the Project Brave requirements? Where's the money for a new pitch coming from?

Sorry, but that sounds like complacency to me.

What responsibility do you have? Well, I'm hoping that your life would be poorer without Killie than it would without Still Game, Irn Bru, and Budweiser, for all of which there are alternatives available!  

 The club is ours and we are, for now, the guardians of it in the way that the supporters in the 19th and 20th centuries preserved the club so that we could enjoy it. I'm sure supporters of Third Lanark, for example, wish they still had a club they could be responsible for.

 

Agree 100%. Brilliant

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As I understand it, the Trust board  member won't be answerable to anyone or responsible for keeping anybody happy.

They will be on the board because they have the skill set, acumen and common sense to make decisions in the best interest of the club. However, they should have more insight into what the supporters are thinking and would like to see the club do.

Do we have well a run club? The last accounts showed a profit before tax of about £1m but this could be explained by transfer fees and other windfalls. What if the accounts next year show a loss? Do we no longer have a well run club? Could the club cope with relegation? How are we going to fund the Project Brave requirements? Where's the money for a new pitch coming from?

Sorry, but that sounds like complacency to me.

What responsibility do you have? Well, I'm hoping that your life would be poorer without Killie than it would without Still Game, Irn Bru, and Budweiser, for all of which there are alternatives available!  

The club is ours and we are, for now, the guardians of it in the way that the supporters in the 19th and 20th centuries preserved the club so that we could enjoy it. I'm sure supporters of Third Lanark, for example, wish they still had a club they could be responsible for.

 

They might not be answerable to anyone but if people are making monthly payments and don’t think the guy is doing a good job he suddenly becomes very answerable to someone! 

 

My life would be poorer without killie. But again, I think you’re afraid of something that isn’t there. Scottish football has went through much worse times than the product we are currently experiencing. KFC is vulnerable to an ever changing world but so is every business. Project brave is in part funded by the SFA, do you really think the custodians of the game and governing body are going to see a club go to the wall because of an initiative they introduced? 

You say what if we make a loss next year? We start this season with 3 of the 4 board members being self made multi millionaires who have not only started businesses from nothing but have grown them into huge success stories. There’s always a risk with these things but the size of the risk is substantially reduced thanks to our current board. Of course transfer fees will help, that’s part of the business model for every club in Scotland and no doubt next years accounts will be healthier due to at least one sale of a player. I think if you studied the change in the club in 12 months and the plans they have to take it forward you would find there’s no complacency involved. 

 

As for alternatives - never! 

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They might not be answerable to anyone but if people are making monthly payments and don’t think the guy is doing a good job he suddenly becomes very answerable to someone!

They could be held to account by TiK members thou. Leaving them open to risk of being voted out at the TiK AGM.

Edited by C4mmy31
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@Bluetonic86 why do we have to always be reactive instead of proactive?

Are we just to be happy because we’re currently doing ok? 

we may be financially stable at the moment but what happens if/when we get relegated or our board members pull the plug on their funding or a scam of Hamilton proportions occurs? 

The fans would be expected to bail the club out same as hearts, Motherwell, Dunfermline etc. TIK is an option available to us to safeguard against such eventualities. And whilst we’re in good times, the extra funding could push us to the next level.

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They could be held to account by TiK members thou. Leaving them open to risk of being voted out at the TiK AGM.

Absolutely. And causing unrest among fans in the process. Guys in recent history working with the club have proven this, even the former SLO was divisive! 

I hope it works because I love my club as much as any other fan and if it does then happy days. It’s just not for me though, that’s all. Time will tell. 

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They could be held to account by TiK members thou. Leaving them open to risk of being voted out at the TiK AGM. 

Some people seem to think getting a place on the board is the be all and end all of TiK.

Trust in Killie is a project by the Trust to provide ongoing funding to the club by purchasing shares, thereby increasing the Trust's stake in the club. It's a project - it's not a separate entity to the Trust and won't have its own AGM separate to the Trust (as far as I'm aware).

The subscribers to TiK will have input into how the money should be spent by the club but, ultimately, I expect it will be a club board decision to choose between projects.  

I don't even know how Trust members would begin to judge the director's performance, other than as part of the complete board.

 

Edited by skygod
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We start this season with 3 of the 4 board members being self made multi millionaires who have not only started businesses from nothing but have grown them into huge success stories. There’s always a risk with these things but the size of the risk is substantially reduced thanks to our current board.

Their money is their money, not our money. You can’t just expect these people just to fork out cash whenever we need it and keep us afloat, those days are long gone for most clubs, ours included. We need the club to be run in a sustainable fashion, we need the club not to depend on any one or two people should anything happen to them (remember Gretna). It’s great these folk are interested and want to be involved, no one has a problem with that, but we are a community asset, no ones plaything, as custodians of the club they should be prioritising us, if they do that then they will continue to get our support.

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Some people seem to think getting a place on the board is the be all and end all of TiK.

Trust in Killie is a project by the Trust to provide ongoing funding to the club by purchasing shares, thereby increasing the Trust's stake in the club. It's a project - it's not a separate entity to the Trust and won't have its own AGM separate to the Trust (as far as I'm aware).

The subscribers to TiK will have input into how the money should be spent by the club but, ultimately, I expect it will be a club board decision to choose between projects.  

I don't even know how Trust members would begin to judge the director's performance, other than as part of the complete board.

 

Your correct, I should have said Trust, and not TiK, AGM in my post.

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Their money is their money, not our money. You can’t just expect these people just to fork out cash whenever we need it and keep us afloat, those days are long gone for most clubs, ours included. We need the club to be run in a sustainable fashion, we need the club not to depend on any one or two people should anything happen to them (remember Gretna). It’s great these folk are interested and want to be involved, no one has a problem with that, but we are a community asset, no ones plaything, as custodians of the club they should be prioritising us, if they do that then they will continue to get our support.

My point about them being very wealthy successful individuals was more to emphasise the fact that they will make killie sustainable, living within their means not that they will dip into the kids inheritance whenever we need them to. The fact they know how to run a business efficiently means that shouldn’t be something that’s needed. You’re right their money is their money and I don’t expect them to fork out, I’ve made that clear. You could flip it and say my money is my money and I make a proportionate contribution through season tickets, merchandise, tea bars etc, but I don’t think that’s needed. I think we can all agree we don’t have a potential Gretna on our hands. 

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@Bluetonic86 why do we have to always be reactive instead of proactive?

Are we just to be happy because we’re currently doing ok? 

we may be financially stable at the moment but what happens if/when we get relegated or our board members pull the plug on their funding or a scam of Hamilton proportions occurs? 

The fans would be expected to bail the club out same as hearts, Motherwell, Dunfermline etc. TIK is an option available to us to safeguard against such eventualities. And whilst we’re in good times, the extra funding could push us to the next level.

Not saying we shouldn’t be proactive just saying that we are in no more potential danger than any other business in the country. I’m also not saying in any way that I am some sort of business minded guru, far from it, I trust however that the board have enough about them to steer us right. I’m also sure they will look at the uptake so far and think “if we needed a plan B to bail us out of any danger that may come our way then we may have to   look somewhere else”. Not a slight on anyone’s efforts just a realistic point, if it all went pear shaped tomorrow then it’s not gonna be TiK that rescues the situation. Again, not a slight, just an observation. Like I said I’m not convinced by it so far, and I’m allowed not to be. 

Just out interest, if we were scammed by a Malian prince asking for a favour and the club went south quickly and worse case scenario we cease to exist - what happens to the loan to TiK? Are the members expected to keep subscribing until its paid back? 

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Red cards at the ready.

 

Personally I don’t see TiK as the way forward. I know I’m probably very much in the minority on here but when it comes to influencing big changes at board room level what power exactly do TiK expect to have. One fan board member v 4 board members who don’t vote or speak on behalf of hundreds, potentially thousands of people, they just make their own minds up and push their vision of what’s best for the club. From what I’ve seen the board all have the clubs best interests at heart. The trust board member has the thankless task of trying to keep lots of people, all with different opinions and ideas of what’s best and what’s not, happy. Never gonna happen. While the inevitable infighting ensues among fans disagreeing with the direction TiK should be going, the rest of the board look on thinking “it really doesn’t matter which way this guy votes, take the money, give him his token vote and then we can get on with things”. Of course they are going to support money coming in exchange for very little. Also clubs that have traditionally went down this route have been in big trouble financially, we aren’t and are in no more danger of becoming so than any other team other Celtic, what’s the need for changing how our club is run now? What we have is a well run business so it if ain’t broke why fix it? I have seen people point out that the fans should take responsibility, again that argument doesn’t stand up with me. I buy my season tickets every year, buy the kids the kits etc, so as a fan what responsibility do I have? If I own something and other people like it, it doesn’t mean they should share responsibility for it. I’m a fan of Still Game, Irn Bru, and Budweiser does that mean I should financially support them other than buying their products? 

 

I am certainly not saying that people should be knocked for backing it, just as those who don’t shouldn’t be. As a lifelong fan and season ticket holder for most of my 32 years on earth I shouldn’t be embarrassed to not support TiK and it doesn’t make anyone who does support it a bigger fan than someone who doesn’t. 

 

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to give a different opinion, I might be the only one that feels this way but that’s what it’s all about at the end of the day, a killie forum where everyone agreed would be very boring indeed.

That's a lot of words without saying much.

Would you have posted the same 18 months ago before MJ pissed off?

i honestly can't see a negative in TIK.

St Mirren fans get it, Hearts fans get it, Motherwell fans get it.

Shame ours don't. 

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That's a lot of words without saying much.

Would you have posted the same 18 months ago before MJ pissed off?

i honestly can't see a negative in TIK.

St Mirren fans get it, Hearts fans get it, Motherwell fans get it.

Shame ours don't. 

It’s irrelevant what I would have posted 18 months ago. The fact that only a couple of hundred out of the thousands of killie fans ‘get it’ as you say, maybe tells you something. 

I might be wrong, just giving my opinion. 

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It’s irrelevant what I would have posted 18 months ago. The fact that only a couple of hundred out of the thousands of killie fans ‘get it’ as you say, maybe tells you something. 

I might be wrong, just giving my opinion. 

It tells me something, we're falling into the stereotype of blindly loyal football fans who don't care about anything other than results and as long as they are fine it doesn't matter about anything else. It tells me we have a few hundred people who don't conform to that stereotype and are looking further ahead than the next few matches or the next season. What it tells me most is that the club have not been selling this and that is why there hasn't been a wider take up. That worries me. All this business acumen you refer to and they are hesitant to take 'free money' with no strings attached. No strings because many would have us believe that a position on the board is useless. I don't believe that for a minute but you can't have it both ways. Just giving my opinion. Your opinion seems strange to me, you have a badge showing you are a Trust member but don't believe in their core initiative - and you suddenly appear on here with all this passive aggressive waffle trying to sound like the voice of reason, what's all that about?

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