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Indy 2. Bumper Unionist propaganda thread.


Zorro

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It’s not my experience out in the real world and I would certainly rather spend time in the company of an English person than a staunch Scottish unionist. However, that’s  not to say the English don’t have a huge issue with racism and xenophobia, most if not all unionists do. That type of nationalism always carries a toxic burden.

We are politically distinct countries with different outlooks and needs, though. Scottish nationalism is inclusive and welcoming; more interested in your aspirations than where you’re from or your skin colour, and for that reason the Union must end. 

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This seems to have worked for the SNP. Make up a grievance. Whip up hysteria. Point at the baddies and stoke the flames.    Try get independence. It’s like, a dunno, nationalism.   Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 

Yup. It definitely wasn’t the unionists decision to leave a succeful union, rip up established conventions, ignore parliamentary protocols, and ride roughshod over democracy that’s caused this. It’s those Nasty Nats with their unreasonable concern for the people of their country. Grrrrr Wee Burnie, nippy sweety etc, etc. 

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This seems to have worked for the SNP. Make up a grievance. Whip up hysteria. Point at the baddies and stoke the flames.    Try get independence. It’s like, a dunno, nationalism.   Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 

It IS working.

It doesn't matter how "outraged"  Sir Bufton Tufton from Home Counties South is or how much of his G&T gets spilled. It doesn't matter how much Wee Roofie tries to brush it off with her "Its only the usual Nat Nutters,  the real genuine honest true people of Scotland don't really give a stuff" approach. Unless and until the Tories wake up and smell the coffee they are simply continuing to drive the UK towards fragmentation with their current, "no more Johnnie Foreigner", Brexit approach.

 

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If Mundell said it in isolation, I too don’t have an issue with it. However, it’s the backdrop he’s said it against. If he’s said “Scotland is a partner IN the union” then that’s a disgrace, however, he didn’t say that. I don’t believe we are a partner of the union either. It’s semantics.

where I disagree with @Brianstorm is your claim of faux outrage. I believe the Scottish mps should be outraged at some of WM’s actions this week. Devolution has been attacked and undermined. 

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where I disagree with @Brianstorm is your claim of faux outrage. I believe the Scottish mps should be outraged at some of WM’s actions this week. Devolution has been attacked and undermined. 

Also, remember English Votes For English Laws is in now too - courtesy of David Cameron in Downing Street the morning after the Scottish referendum.

Not only has devolution been attacked, but Scottish MP's are no longer able to vote on all issues at WM.  So since 2014, devolutions been "undermined" and Scottish MP's are no longer the equal of English ones at WM.  Doesn't sound like an equal political union anymore to me - but we'll leave that can of worms for another day eh? ;)

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Also, remember English Votes For English Laws is in now too - courtesy of David Cameron in Downing Street the morning after the Scottish referendum.

Not only has devolution been attacked, but Scottish MP's are no longer able to vote on all issues at WM.  So since 2014, devolutions been "undermined" and Scottish MP's are no longer the equal of English ones at WM.  Doesn't sound like an equal political union anymore to me - but we'll leave that can of worms for another day eh? ;)

I Dont think I have too much of a problem with Scottish MPs not being given a vote on matters which have no effect on the communities they serve where the respective matters are devolved to Holyrood - apologies if I've missed your point. I dont have a detailed understanding of EVEL admittedly, but the more concentrated and 'local' the decision making is, the better IMO. 

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I Dont think I have too much of a problem with Scottish MPs not being given a vote on matters which have no effect on the communities they serve where the respective matters are devolved to Holyrood - apologies if I've missed your point. I dont have a detailed understanding of EVEL admittedly, but the more concentrated and 'local' the decision making is, the better IMO. 

Given how the Barnett formula is calculated, virtually everything has an effect on the Scottish budget and therefore the communities they serve. 

It also makes it near impossible for an MP serving a non-English constituency to become PM. That hardly sounds like a partnership of equals. 

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The way devolution was implemented was a total cock up in 1998, hence the call for English Votes For English Laws, from the traditional, "West Lothian Question" asked by the member of the house for West Lothian Tam Dalyell.

I was always puzzled when i heard mention of the "West Lothian Question" when I was a kid in the 80/90s!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Lothian_question

The problem in 98 was they never set up an English parliament, so the UK parliament in essence became the defecto the English parliament following EVEL. 

But when WM discusses reserved matters in the devolved nations (most of it's business) it reverts to it's traditional UK parliament voting structure.

What the Tories did this week in undermining devolution, further cocks up the constitutional structure in WM, first changed by Devo and Labour in 98, EVEL and Cameron in 2016 and Brexit and now this.

I agree with the principal of EVEL, but the way it's been implemented along with devolution by this Tory administration is short termist and has fundamentally weekend the UK by showing up the flaws of the outdated WM system, thats well past it's best.

The history of this period will be a good read. Logically if the UK was a union of nations, then England along with Wales NI and Scotland should have got a parliament in 98, it didn't and this was clearly a big error in keeping the UK together IMO.  But equally devolution was never meant to be federalism like in Germany.  The Irish ended up walking out of WM with the home rule issue (devolution max as well called it in 2014) as the catalyst, so I was shocked to see WM go down the same line with Scotland.  I'd read they would in 2014 following the referendum, didn't see how it was possible - until this week.  These Tories have no interest in traditional Red White and Blue unionism - they're something else!

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@Brianstorm  just the banter innit?  Couple of good pics though!  

The SNP were all back in later that night apart from Blackford who made his point skilfully and I thought came across well in interviews - which i hadn't seen him do before.  The speakers agreed to a 3 hour debate on devolution next week, so they got what they wanted.  The speaker made an error in not allowing the house to sit in private following IB's request, so I cant see how it could be pre planned - unless the SNP knew Bercow would incorrectly apply WM protocol?  Seems unlikely, unless Blackord and co. are clairvoyant!  

As I posted earlier, I too am skeptical about membership surges as any sort of barometer of popularity. The games all about No's going to the undecided then YES and vice versa.  Folk who are undecided and wavering on either side aren't gonna be joining political parties either.  Frankly, comparing the SNP membership to that of the orange lodge might be a better way of gauging overall relative support of the 2 "factions"!  Well see what Arlene Foster says in Fife..

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Quite funny, the Nats defending the parliament that the good old Labour Party set up. They're not really very grateful at times for what the grown ups have done for them. Let's think about this. They opposed Labour's plans in their 1997 manifesto. They walked out of the Scottish Constitutional Convention in the cream puff(early grievance technique). The turned down the devolution of pensions and they've begged big bad Westminster to keep some welfare powers for another three years. (reverse power grab. Remember, they were going to set up a Scottish state in 18 months) :) Finally, they're stated aim (not the Tories) is to destroy devolution, by splitting up the UK. Thankfully, it's never going to happen.

 

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Quite funny, the Nats defending the parliament that the good old Labour Party set up. They're not really very grateful at times for what the grown ups have done for them. Let's think about this. They opposed Labour's plans in their 1997 manifesto. They walked out of the Scottish Constitutional Convention in the cream puff(early grievance technique). The turned down the devolution of pensions and they've begged big bad Westminster to keep some welfare powers for another three years. (reverse power grab. Remember, they were going to set up a Scottish state in 18 months) :) Finally, they're stated aim (not the Tories) is to destroy devolution, by splitting up the UK. Thankfully, it's never going to happen.

 

Perhaps is your cowardly abstaining pointless MP’s did their job and stood up against WM austerity and Tory policies the SNP wouldn’t need to defend pur Nation against the continual attack’s of the UK parliament.

but then it’s obvious the WM Labour Party want London rule in a truly isolated xenophobic little Britain anyway

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Another day and more stories of corruption and disdain for the electorate from The Westminster cesspool. 

Tory MP Craig MacKinlay (already mired in an expenses scandal) didn’t think it was important to mention, he wanted to run a low-cost airline from an airport he was pushing to have reopened using taxpayers money. 

Fellow Tory Ian Liddell-Grainger (accused of shouting suicide during an SNP question) has denied even being present when it was shouted, despite tv footage showing he was em...present. Did you know it’s a criminal offence to encourage someone to commit suicide btw?

 

 

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