Jump to content

Indy 2. Bumper Unionist propaganda thread.


Zorro

Recommended Posts

@ZorroI think a Hard Brexit changes things regarding unionism as we know it in Scotland.

For people who voted no but also voted remain in 2016, stockpiles and mountains of food and butter could sway their opinion on being a unionist in Scotland - depends how badly Brexit goes.  It'll be difficult to hide mountains of coffee and massive Lorry parks on this island!

Any Brexit will be a massive departure from the "Better Together" future promised to a lot of decent, right thinking people who took things on face value and voted No in 2014.

If these 20-25% of people who also voted remain in 2016 are disenfranchised with the Westminster system after Brexit - you know who they're gonna call in Scotland.

The Scottish political set up's been radically altered since the run up to independence referendum, wasn't always the SNP v the rest, won't be the same in 5 years after this sort of extreme Brexit.  This Brexit's far more radical an international policy than the SNP's independence prospectus that was rejected 55-45 in 2014.  Even before we knew any of the calamitous nitty gritty, Scotland rejected Brexit 62 -38!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m not so sure I agree with your assessment @RAG. If anything the prospect of Brexit seems to making Unionists stauncher and more emboldened to share their views. And their view seems to be they don’t care how big a s**te sandwich they’re served, they’ll gobble it down as long as there’s a Union Jack napkin to wipe their mouths with afterwards. 

The “soft” unionists, who voted no and remain, are about to be bombarded with propaganda on an unprecedented scale from our right wing media. It doesn’t take much imagination to write that script. Shortages of medicines- “the NHS in Scotland is devolved... it’s the SNP’s fault”. Rising unemployment- “devolved issue... SNP’s fault”. Gers figures show a larger “deficit” - “devolved issue...SNP’s fault”. You name it, they’ll suggest it’s devolved and the SNP’s fault. There’s no prospect of it being traced back to the root cause. 

Look at today’s papers; with everything going on at the moment, the Lib Dem’s think Scotland only having the best A&E waiting times in the U.K. is the issue they should attack.

Every week at FMQ’s weary Wullie stands up and fakes outrage about mental health waiting times or some tedious story linked to policing. He’ll point out how they’re devolved issues and demand somebody’s head should roll. No mention of where our pocket money comes for or how the consequences of public sector spending cuts in England impacts on the devolved governments. Scottish Labour will scream tax more to mitigate the  worst consequences of Brexit. They won’t do it where they control power in Wales, but they’ll scream blue murder that the SNP are failing the poorest in society by not doing it here. And the Tories will harrumph that we’re the highest taxed area of the U.K. and that’s why growth has stalled. Shills like Jim Sillars is given huge amounts of coverage to share his view that you can’t be an independent country in the EU

It’s all about fragmenting the opposition to Brexit/independence/neoliberalism. Everyone wants their exact vision of independence or they’re happy to stay with what they know. It might be s**te but it’s familiar s**te and familiar is comforting when things hit the fan  

Divide and conquer... that’ll remain the unionist mantra  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Zorro said:

I’m not so sure I agree with your assessment @RAG. If anything the prospect of Brexit seems to making Unionists stauncher and more emboldened to share their views. And their view seems to be they don’t care how big a s**te sandwich they’re served, they’ll gobble it down as long as there’s a Union Jack napkin to wipe their mouths with afterwards. 

It’s all about fragmenting the opposition to Brexit/independence/neoliberalism. Everyone wants their exact vision of independence or they’re happy to stay with what they know. It might be s**te but it’s familiar s**te and familiar is comforting when things hit the fan  

Divide and conquer... that’ll remain the unionist mantra  

 

You can't fight a war on two or three fronts though.  Chuck in a United Ireland to the Brexit / Independence / Neo Liberal mix and it's difficult to see how the Uk will deal with all these competing issues internally - while externally negotiating trade deals with the USA and suchlike.  Especially given we'll be starting from massive division, 50% wanting a trade deal with the USA and 50% with the EU as a first preference.

Identity is multi layered almost uniquely in the UK, some people are Scottish, English and British - no-one's just British as the BBC might have you believe.

The massive bias on the BBC hasn't really been that effective in the keeping Scottish independence in check, eventually that dam always bursts - just might take a decade or so!

Edited by RAG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, RAG said:

You can't fight a war on two or three fronts though.  Chuck in a United Ireland to the Brexit / Independence / Neo Liberal mix and it's difficult to see how the Uk will deal with all these competing issues internally - while externally negotiating trade deals with the USA and suchlike.  Especially given we'll be starting from massive division, 50% wanting a trade deal with the USA and 50% with the EU as a first preference.

Identity is multi layered almost uniquely in the UK, some people are Scottish, English and British - no-one's just British as the BBC might have you believe.

The massive bias on the BBC hasn't really been that effective in the keeping Scottish independence in check, eventually that dam always bursts - just might take a decade or so!

They won’t fight on multiple fronts, it’s going to be a straight fight between “us” v them, with good old British values as us and bloody interfering foreigners as them.  I fully expect better together, stronger together, United we stand, we will fight them on the beaches, blitz spirit, etc, etc.. to be reprised. If you’re not with them you’re against them. A traitor, Subversive and out to undermine the British way of life. The media will ensure the wagons are circled. “You only have to watch Eurovision to know they all hate us”.  That’ll be the standard of dialogue and the masses will lap it up. 

The BBC’s impact cannot be underestimated. In times of national crisis that’s where the plebs turn for their “news”. Editorial bias is systemic and frames every discussion and debate. The state broadcaster will churn out propaganda at record rates along with fluff like the great British bake-off, strictly come British dancing, British pop idol and documentaries on Churchill, Queen Victoria, Bodicea and how the British empire shaped the world. We might even get a new series of Dads army. Just don’t expect to see anything about record levels of unemployment, poverty rising, gdp slumping, trade stagnating. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Zorro said:

The BBC’s impact cannot be underestimated. In times of national crisis that’s where the plebs turn for their “news”. 

Aye but thats still largely generational in it's impact.

For example, average over 65 year old watches 5 hours of TV a day, teenagers watch 1/4 of that amount.  Pensioners are consistent in amount of TV watched compared to a decade ago, but the young watch 40% less.  

Now we know you're 3 or 4 times more likely to vote Tory AND watch the telly if you're say 65 than 18.  Coincidence in the current climate?

That gives me hope for the future.  

I still reckon WM will struggle should Brexit not work out well in NI and Scotland - two regions that didn't vote for it.  Will need the biggest propaganda exercise in history to keep lid on that.

Edited by RAG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RAG said:

The massive bias on the BBC hasn't really been that effective in the keeping Scottish independence in check, eventually that dam always bursts - just might take a decade or so!

Its already started,  over the past week several independence supporting people and groups have had their YouTube channels terminated without notice or recourse to appeal.

All traced back to the BBC making complaints about perfectly legal video coverage being used.  Thousands of articles supporting the independence cause and showing BBC bias at work gone and locks down in an instant and now iretrievable. 

Meanwhile the Scottish tories, Labour, Scotland in union and several right wing groups opposed to independence, remain completely free to use any content from  the BBC with total impunity.

Before McLean and his yoon pals about lies and paranoia.  This is verifiable fact and is tantamount to illegal political censorship, by what is meant to be an impartial public service broadcaster.

The establishment is already starting to attack and close down opponents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

Its already started,  over the past week several independence supporting people and groups have had their YouTube channels terminated without notice or recourse to appeal.

All traced back to the BBC making complaints about perfectly legal video coverage being used.  Thousands of articles supporting the independence cause and showing BBC bias at work gone and locks down in an instant and now iretrievable. 

Politically motivated censorship in the form of copyright strikes, just won't work for the BBC in the era of the internet.  It's huge publicity for Wings over Scotland.  Exactly why only the national's picked the story up!  I'd be surprised if it wan't reinstated in due course, will be a bigger stooshie if the censorship stands, when other political news blogs have BBC content on their channels used in a similar manner.  Least these days the internet gives us a right to reply.

Edited by RAG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, RAG said:

Aye but thats still largely generational in it's impact.

For example, average over 65 year old watches 5 hours of TV a day, teenagers watch 1/4 of that amount.  Pensioners are consistent in amount of TV watched compared to a decade ago, but the young watch 40% less.  

Now we know your 3 or 4 times more likely to vote Tory AND watch the telly if you're say 65 than 18.  Coincidence in the current climate?

That gives me hope for the future.  

I still reckon WM will struggle should Brexit not work out well in NI and Scotland - two regions that didn't vote for it.  Will need the biggest propaganda exercise in history to keep lid on that.

I’ll give you tv propaganda’s reach is more targeted on the older generations, but now the state have recognised the impact of social media they’re going to make sure the message is delivered there too. The recent stampede by the state to control the spread of “disinformation” is particularly worrying. In the past this would have been called censorship and the calls for a “digital imprint” appears to be a move towards having only state approved authors on social media. Worrying times for the truth. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Zorro said:

I’ll give you tv propaganda’s reach is more targeted on the older generations, but now the state have recognised the impact of social media they’re going to make sure the message is delivered there too. The recent stampede by the state to control the spread of “disinformation” is particularly worrying. In the past this would have been called censorship and the calls for a “digital imprint” appears to be a move towards having only state approved authors on social media. Worrying times for the truth. 

This is exactly how any fascist entity has taken control in Europe and beyond in the past.  Demonising anything which isn’t approved or in tune with their thinking.  Call it all fake news.  Select a group, creed, race or aspect of society to blame all their ills on and slowly tume the masses against them. Then link this group to the ruling class and be swept into power on a wave of hate and lies.

Next they then control the media and therefore what appears as the truth.

mclean et al can scoff and shout paranoia and poke fun at this.  But mark my words there is a march to the right all over Europe and even more so in the US.  We all might need a bunker eventually.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Zorro said:

The recent stampede by the state to control the spread of “disinformation” is particularly worrying. In the past this would have been called censorship and the calls for a “digital imprint” appears to be a move towards having only state approved authors on social media. Worrying times for the truth. 

The BBC being supposedly independent arbiters of fact checking, yet also the biggest producer of news content in the UK is more worrying IMO.

However, it's fairly easy to produce social media if there's a million of you.   If all nationalist videos were taken down, they'd all go viral, trending and getting more exposure as they were released afterward - before being taken down.  You can't control social media just like the telly.  

As we are moving from broadcasting to narrowcasting on social media, there's a few punters out there who can produce decent content - although at present there's no modern streaming video service a nationalist could go to.  Big gap in the market that.

Edited by RAG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, RAG said:

The BBC being supposedly independent arbiters of fact checking, yet also the biggest producer of news content in the UK is more worrying IMO.

However, it's fairly easy to produce social media if there's a million of you.   If all nationalist videos were taken down, they'd all go viral, trending and getting more exposure as they were released afterward - before being taken down.  You can't control social media just like the telly.  

As we are moving from broadcasting to narrowcasting on social media, there's a few punters out there who can produce decent content - although at present there's no modern streaming video service a nationalist could go to.  Big gap in the market that.

Sorry but if history has taught as anything, it’s that when a state chooses to stem the flow of information, they do so mercilessly. They’ve already put the systems in place to clamp down on dissidents. A fear of the consequences would prevent any chance of it going mainstream. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Zorro said:

Sorry but if history has taught as anything, it’s that when a state chooses to stem the flow of information, they do so mercilessly. They’ve already put the systems in place to clamp down on dissidents. A fear of the consequences would prevent any chance of it going mainstream. 

That's a pretty good description of the Scottish Government, I'll give you that Old Bean. They've got the Scottish establishment in their pocket. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Zorro said:

Sorry but if history has taught as anything, it’s that when a state chooses to stem the flow of information, they do so mercilessly. They’ve already put the systems in place to clamp down on dissidents. A fear of the consequences would prevent any chance of it going mainstream. 

Aye but they were doing that before 2014 too and look where we are now.  Not in a vastly different place electorally in Scotland despite the ramping up in the last 5 years of the anti independence rhetoric.  You could argue the SNP have been even more dominant, although the 2015 Election was an unreasonably high water mark for any UK party.   I might be being naive in suggesting eventually the flow of superior ideas will break the dam, but you never know.  It almost happened in 2014 from a very low base.  Making the case for the UK will be more difficult post Brexit.

During the supposed period of purdah (8 weeks or whatever) in both EU and Scots referendums the gap narrowed significantly.  If the same happened on current polling it's be a YES win.  Now they can't come up with another vow this time can they?  OR maybe there won't be a Scottish parliament of any note to call a referendum - the many hundreds of jobs at the new Scottish office in Edinburgh could render the Scots parliament obsolete?  Either way, there's always a way if you've good ideas, conviction and importantly more coherent ideas than the competition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mclean07 said:

That's a pretty good description of the Scottish Government, I'll give you that Old Bean. They've got the Scottish establishment in their pocket. 

This is probably, no sorry this  is the most ludicrous pile of festering s**te you have ever uttered.

If you believe that then you need sectioned.

Edited by Beaker71
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Mclean07 said:

That's a pretty good description of the Scottish Government, I'll give you that Old Bean. They've got the Scottish establishment in their pocket. 

For a man demanding proof and apologises - that’s some pretty lame s**t to try and deflect from, one of your favourite sources claiming the U.K. needs 50 years of austerity. Not even Greece is in that bad a way. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...