RAG Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 1 hour ago, gdevoy said: Based on the noises these people have been making so far, something along the lines of "f**k 'em" I fancy. "Look at the manufacturing opportunities for concrete watch tower makers and machine gun and floodlight manufacturers". If these guys were on the Titanic they would be bigging up the opportunities for open water swimming. The ERG on the Irish borders total fantasy thinking. There's things in the GFA agreement allowing the Irish government to step in if there's no devolution and the threat of watch towers or remilitarisation. The Uk signed a peace deal saying such things wouldn't happen and if they do, the Irish can step in by democratic means if the political will is there. How that pans out, I dunno, but it won't be a return to the 1970s. JRM may not have moved on, but NI (through peace) and Ireland (in becoming a secular state) have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbs Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 4 hours ago, Prahakillie said: and tomorrow they are going to present their solution to the Irish border problem. This will be good .... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 Moggy claiming there’d be a £1.1trillion boost to the economy with a no deal trade deal with the EU. Okay it’s over 15years and last week he was saying nobody could predict how these things would pan out, but it sounds legit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Zorro said: Moggy claiming there’d be a £1.1trillion boost to the economy with a no deal trade deal with the EU. Okay it’s over 15years and last week he was saying nobody could predict how these things would pan out, but it sounds legit. Calling these claims "project fantasy" seems to be giving them more credibility than they deserve. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killie1961 Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 12 hours ago, gdevoy said: Calling these claims "project fantasy" seems to be giving them more credibility than they deserve. The lot of them are utter bampots with no thought for the working man 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 ...the folk sent to supposedly represent 'the working man' and woman aren't any better! Where's the opposition? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudger Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 On 9/11/2018 at 2:59 PM, Prahakillie said: JRM and his ERG friends presenting the economic case for crashing out and trading on WTO terms today. Here is an extract from the press release sent out in advance: Britain would be better off trading with the European Union under World Trade Organisation rules, according to a major new academic study of the likely impact of the failure of the UK and the EU to conclude a free trade agreement by the Brexit date of March 29th next year. A world trade deal under WTO rules would boost the UK’s trade with the rest of the world including Europe, lower domestic prices and boost inward investment, says the report produced by Economists for Free Trade (EFT). It would also provide a significant uplift in UK economic growth over the next 15 years, raising Treasury revenues by £80 billion, enabling a combination of higher public spending and lower taxes. In addition, if the EU insisted on slapping WTO tariffs on British exports and Britain responded in kind, because of the large EU trade surplus with the UK, the overall effect would amount to a staggering £13 billion a year boost to UK revenues. Steve Baker is speaking now. He says he did not go to Eton, so he won’t be as eloquent as Rees-Mogg. He says most economists are “useless”. But these economists aren’t because their analysis is based in reality, he says. He says he wants people to be positive about the opportunities offered by Brexit. He says of course he would prefer a free trade deal with the EU. But he welcomes the report for dispelling myths about the WTO option. So all economists are useless apart from the ones we have hand-picked that agree with what we want to say. Sounds so familiar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 Conformation buried in an article about mobile phone charges, the UK government aren't gonna pay what they should to the EU in event of a no deal. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45501007 Free data roaming will continue even if the UK leaves the EU without a deal, Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab has said. He said two mobile operators had agreed and if others did not follow suit the government would force them by law. Mr Raab also said the UK would not pay the full £39bn divorce bill if the UK fails to reach a deal with Brussels. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prahakillie Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, RAG said: Conformation buried in an article about mobile phone charges, the UK government aren't gonna pay what they should to the EU in event of a no deal. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45501007 Free data roaming will continue even if the UK leaves the EU without a deal, Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab has said. He said two mobile operators had agreed and if others did not follow suit the government would force them by law. Mr Raab also said the UK would not pay the full £39bn divorce bill if the UK fails to reach a deal with Brussels. It has been reported in many places. Barnier says there was no agreed figure. Just a method of calculation was agreed. If anything 39bn was apparently on the low side as the UK were supposedly talking them down from 80 or 100bn (again figures of unknown origin) * Technically they are probably correct that they won't pay the full amount. Some of what they were supposed to be paying for was the transition or implementation period. If they crash out with no deal there is no transition period. * I mean the UK were claiming a great success at the time releasing a low figure which they thought might be more acceptable in the face of exaggerated stories about the amount. Edited September 13, 2018 by Prahakillie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 The Chequers deals obviously a sham, was never getting past the EU (they'd need to break red lines of 4 freedoms and single market) or ERG with the £39 billion bill compared to a Hard Brexit of unknown cost and unlimited off shore freedom for the City of London. It's so obvious JRM is running the country on behalf of his pals in the city. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prahakillie Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 33 minutes ago, RAG said: It's so obvious JRM is running the country on behalf of his pals in the city. A bit harsh. He's unselfishly fighting a noble cause for the ordinary people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, Prahakillie said: A bit harsh. He's unselfishly fighting a noble cause for the ordinary people. Aye your ordinary everyday blokes in top hats! Offshore fund manager from inherited wealth like JRM is just what we need with a 10% GDP wipeout and Hard Brexit on the horizon. The last thing he's gonna mention is the benefits to the City of London in any presentation. There's no possible short to medium term benefit to Brexit as proposed beyond the square mile. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 I don't understand the details but in principal Sinn Fein agreed to the Good Friday Agreement because it wrote into legislation things which would knit the north and south together. The DUP agreed because they thought that legislation meant nothing as the people of the Province would never agree to leave the UK. Basically the UK leaving the EU, unless it is so fudged that it is meaningless, must make a clear legislative break between Ulster (UK) and the rest of Ireland (EU). In other words it renders everything Sinn Fein have done in the last 50 years meaningless. I just cant see any scope for compromise here. Theresa can't upset the DUP but the EU cant make a special case for the UK. Theresa is banking on the EU's prime mover being getting the divorce settlement and so they will eventually fold on border regulation. The EU is banking on the UK folding on its crippling commitment to the DUP. Nobody wants NO DEAL but nobody can afford to fold. And that's just one issue still to be resolved. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted September 20, 2018 Report Share Posted September 20, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, gdevoy said: Basically the UK leaving the EU, unless it is so fudged that it is meaningless, must make a clear legislative break between Ulster (UK) and the rest of Ireland (EU). In other words it renders everything Sinn Fein have done in the last 50 years meaningless. Unless they now believe in uniting Ireland by political means?! Maybe a united Ireland is a process, rather than a single event? Having given up violence, being elected both North and South of the border, 42% in the North wanting a United Ireland BEFORE Brexit even happens, DUP scandals and no Stormont, SF post brexit are much better placed than the unionist parties and that's before we consider cliches like traditional catholic v protestant birth rates within communities or the massive, made up 20c fudge that is Northern Ireland in itself - northern irelands not even all the counties in Ulster. Edited September 20, 2018 by RAG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted September 20, 2018 Report Share Posted September 20, 2018 1 hour ago, RAG said: Unless they now believe in uniting Ireland by political means? Well Brexit is certainly dividing it by political means. Dividing it by a means the people who live there did not vote for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted September 20, 2018 Report Share Posted September 20, 2018 18 minutes ago, gdevoy said: Well Brexit is certainly dividing it by political means. Dividing it by a means the people who live there did not vote for. What event in the history of the UK, has been more divisive and totally unnecessary than Brexit - even before Brexit happens?! Answers on a postcard.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prahakillie Posted September 20, 2018 Report Share Posted September 20, 2018 So No Deal it is then... EU didn't blink. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted September 20, 2018 Report Share Posted September 20, 2018 As I read in a BBC article it's not about resolving some article of detail through painstaking negotiation. It is about a fundamental difference of principal. The EU say you are in or out. They can't afford a position where the UK has selected the bits of the EU it wants to keep and the bits it wants rid of. The UK government want to be out in principle to satisfy the referendum result but in in practice. Being "out" in practice is like going outside a house in the middle of winter with no clothes on and saying a clothes vendor is sure to be along any time. The "nutters" won't hear of the UK governments position either as they want to be out in principal and practice. They are still fighting the last was and dying of frostbite is a price worth paying to teach those uppity Frogs and Krauts who's boss. Who do the EU think they are anyway? 27 uppity wee backwatters shouting the odds. This is the British empire they are messing with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclean07 Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 satire is dead....... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAG Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mclean07 said: satire is dead....... They did 650 odd pages in Scotlands Future for 2014, you'd assume they'll be another lengthy prospectus next time. The Tories couldn't give you a single bit of A4 paper on Brexit detail. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 The intrinsic arrogance of the Westminster Elite is well beyond human description. The EU said the chequers plan crosses some of their red lines and violates the founding principles of the EU. The Westminster Elite respond by saying the EU will simply have to compromise because chequers is the only deal available and the EU want a deal so there. In my view no deal will be a problem for the EU but it will be a catastrophe for the UK. IMO, while some nutters on the Tory right relish the prospect, UK parliament will not sanction no deal, so who has to compromise? Answers on a postcard. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 50 minutes ago, RAG said: They did 650 odd pages in Scotlands Future for 2014, you'd assume they'll be another lengthy prospectus next time. The Tories couldn't give you a single bit of A4 paper on Brexit detail. 650 pages, 4 years on and still no answer to the currency question, still no answer to the over dependence on oil question. All of that said if we bail out with out an A4 sheet, I feel my loyalty drifting towards the 650 pages. At least they recognise the s**t they are in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 55 minutes ago, gdevoy said: 650 pages, 4 years on and still no answer to the currency question, still no answer to the over dependence on oil question. All of that said if we bail out with out an A4 sheet, I feel my loyalty drifting towards the 650 pages. At least they recognise the s**t they are in. There was an answer to the currency question. You just let yourself believe there wasn’t. Same with this supposed oil dependency. Oil was seen as a bonus, not the mainstay of the economy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 5 hours ago, Zorro said: There was an answer to the currency question. Osborne said no currency union. If using sterling the way Panama uses the dollar is the answer then it's the wrong question. What is the big problem with the Euro? Get a "real" currency and a gold star from the EU. If it's good enough for Ireland...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 33 minutes ago, gdevoy said: Osborne said no currency union. If using sterling the way Panama uses the dollar is the answer then it's the wrong question. What is the big problem with the Euro? Get a "real" currency and a gold star from the EU. If it's good enough for Ireland...... Mark Carney said it was perfectly feasible for their to be a currency union. Can someone remind me what his job is? Anyne who believes a deal wouldn’t have been done is an idiot. However, I don’t have an issue using the Euro, Dollars, Groats or even Russian Rubles after independence. Whatever suits us best is fine by me. If the rUK did want to play hardball, I’d have invited Vladimir Putin over to discuss building some new airfields here for his bombers. and the use of Faslane and Rosyth for his navy. That might focus some minds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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