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Gallus

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If anyone was in any doubt the Tories only care about themselves and hoarding power at any cost, then this shambles of a Brexit Agreement should relieve these doubts once and for all.

A second or 'decision' referendum is not a priortity for Corbyn and he has shown he isn't interested in being any sort of meaningful Opposition.

Wee Nicky should fire the starting gun on Indyref 2 first thing in the morning! She has the mandate and it's clear Scotland isn't an equal partner in this island union.

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3 hours ago, Scooter said:

Wee Nicky should fire the starting gun on Indyref 2 first thing in the morning!

IMO Sturgeon can't at present.  We still know f. all about what Brexit means. The Scottish government don't either, probably cos the Tories don't want to give them a head start on Indyref2 preparations.  At present, indyref2 would be a hypothetical indy Scotland v our present in EU and UK set up, which of course the UK voted to change in 2016.  We know most unionist politicians in Scotland are essentially in Brexit denial mode, until you can pin them on the hard detail of Brexit, indyref2 can't be called.  

True, the 'conservative' older No voters who didn't want change in 2014 are getting change now.  But until the meaning of Brexit is spelled out to them in the Record and BBC news, you'd be taking a chance on people we know are naturally conservative, don't vote for change and being the most financially pampered generation in history,  also have far more assets to lose than the younger folk in Scotland who aren't huns and voted for a change to the set up.  Sturgeon is being cautious with good reason, especially after the half baked promises of the 2016 Brexit referendum.  The demographics and generational voting preferences of both the 2014 and 2016 referendums massivley favour the sides that lost.  That will cause utter chaos in UK politics for decades to come, even if there is an unlikely Brexit deal that clears all the hurdles.  But there's no mad rush for indyref2 - it's only gonna be more winnable as ol' father time marches on. 

Edited by RAG
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10 hours ago, Pelesboots said:

I don't think they will this time - I believe a lot of them will not support her. 

A lot of them on TV and radio shouting the odds about how awful it is but when it comes down to a vote they all go "aye, fine, whatever......" because they are all terrified of losing power. On the other side, Labour don't even have to discipline to get all their own MPs to vote against the Government, so even if the DUP say No I firmly believe May will get enough support to push it through.

The SNP, Greens and Lib Dems will all vote against it but enough Labour MPs will support May to make them irrelevant.

This time next year people will still be asking themselves how did May survive.

 

 

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1 hour ago, gdevoy said:

A lot of them on TV and radio shouting the odds about how awful it is but when it comes down to a vote they all go "aye, fine, whatever......" because they are all terrified of losing power. On the other side, Labour don't even have to discipline to get all their own MPs to vote against the Government, so even if the DUP say No I firmly believe May will get enough support to push it through.

The SNP, Greens and Lib Dems will all vote against it but enough Labour MPs will support May to make them irrelevant.

This time next year people will still be asking themselves how did May survive.

 

 

You have been over optimistic with your statements. The House Of Cards is steadily falling.

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14 hours ago, gdevoy said:

Looks like the SNP, Lib Dems and DUP can greet and moan all they want. As I said when a push comes to a shove the Tories will all hold their noses and vote it through. And Jezza can whistle for his general election.

Brexit, the biggest meja created non-crisis of our time.

Its absolutely a crisis but sadly those who created it have all abandoned ship and once the country has been left in ruins they will come back no doubt promoting themselves as the returning saviours.

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4 minutes ago, Sandman396 said:

If you cannot laugh at the misery of the Tories then you are just not having enough fun in politics!

All of this fuss and kerfuffle, accusations and resignations, is just irrelevant background noise really. So, Theresa is very unpopular and her coat is on a very shoogly nail but that has been the case since the last election. So the hardline Brexiteer nutters all ran away when the referendum result went their way. So they canny get what hey want or promised without destroying much of the country's jobs and infrastructure and the peace in Ireland. But that has all been glaringly obvious since the referendum.

Until somebody goes for a leadership challenge May will simply plough on regardless "delivering Brexit". Even with a commons defeat she will simply keep re- introducing the bill until it gets voted through.

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1 hour ago, Dotaman said:

Negotiating in bad faith is a proud British tradition. It's up there with town criers, cricket and slaughtering people in far off places.

Another proud British tradition is not really understanding Ireland.  

We were assured the Brexit was 95% complete, apart from the Irish bit we’ve been arguing over since the days of Oliver Cromwell. 

Some may have negotiated in bad faith, others probably just pig ignorant.

 

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10 minutes ago, RAG said:

Another proud British tradition is not really understanding Ireland.  

We were assured the Brexit was 95% complete, apart from the Irish bit we’ve been arguing over since the days of Oliver Cromwell. 

Some may have negotiated in bad faith, others probably just pig ignorant.

 

Or worst of all negotiations in bad faith by the pig ignorant!

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Is this not really how it was always going to go with May v the ERG/Brexiteers?

They were never going to challenge her before she got a "deal".

Now she has a deal that seems to be universally loathed they can be seen, at least to themselves and fellow Brexiteers, as charging over the hill like the 7th Cavalry to rescue the Party and the Country from "insert enemy here".

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