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34 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

 We the people decide, the method if that decision is up for debate. 

That is the of legalistic interpretation of "the system" that tells somebody they could walk into the Bank of England, stick a twenty spot on the counter and they would hare off looking for some spare bullion for you. In fact they would hare off looking for the polis or the van with the rubber walls.

FFS Parliament has passed a law requiring The Eton Posh Boy to ask the EU for an extension but he has no intention of doing that because Eton Posh Boys know "laws" don't mean diddly squat when they are playing Posh Boy games. Its all in the mind set.

 

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1 hour ago, Beaker71 said:

How? We the people decide, the method if that decision is up for debate.  One thing which isnt is the right for the people who are sovereign to decide.  WM have no say in this whatsoever, despite their protestations and the unionists efforts to brainwash the people to the opposite.

No, I’m meaning that the people made a previous decision, that and the fact that the FM  continues to promote Indyref2  but  can’t be over confident of successs.

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26 minutes ago, Bhamkillieken said:

we haven't left Europe yet?

Not yet, and there remains the outside chance that article 50 may be revoked.

I agree, the credibility of Wee Nicola's calls for indyref2 rest heavily on the UK actually being outside the EU. And I think the chances of a favourable (to her) outcome of said referendum rest heavily on the nature of the UK's termination of it's relationship with the rest of Europe. In a Cummings / Farage type ideal Brexit I believe that would be an open goal for the SNP.

However, as you point out, over 3 years since "the people" voted to leave but still nothing is set in concrete yet. Not even the survival or otherwise of the Tory party.

The Tories seem to be far more running scared of the Bogeyman Farage than they are of the disintegration of the United Kingdom.  The thing is he could be compared to a fart in a space suit, nosy, pointless and unwelcome but largely irrelevant. Once the UK has started to come apart it may prove impossible to halt, let alone reverse the process.  

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29 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

Not yet, and there remains the outside chance that article 50 may be revoked.

I agree, the credibility of Wee Nicola's calls for indyref2 rest heavily on the UK actually being outside the EU. And I think the chances of a favourable (to her) outcome of said referendum rest heavily on the nature of the UK's termination of it's relationship with the rest of Europe. In a Cummings / Farage type ideal Brexit I believe that would be an open goal for the SNP.

However, as you point out, over 3 years since "the people" voted to leave but still nothing is set in concrete yet. Not even the survival or otherwise of the Tory party.

The Tories seem to be far more running scared of the Bogeyman Farage than they are of the disintegration of the United Kingdom.  The thing is he could be compared to a fart in a space suit, nosy, pointless and unwelcome but largely irrelevant. Once the UK has started to come apart it may prove impossible to halt, let alone reverse the process.  

The credibility of indy ref 2x hinges on sof all other than the people indicating  (polls  election results, or whatever) that they've changed their minds and want to choose again.  Nothing beyond that add or relieves any credibility from the sovereign people of Scotland right to choose.

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1 hour ago, gdevoy said:

FFS Parliament has passed a law requiring The Eton Posh Boy to ask the EU for an extension but he has no intention of doing that because Eton Posh Boys know "laws" don't mean diddly squat when they are playing Posh Boy games. Its all in the mind set.

His mindset relies on the assumption people like you unquestionably accept his authority. 

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8 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

The credibility of indy ref 2x hinges on sof all other than the people indicating  (polls  election results, or whatever) that they've changed their minds and want to choose again.  Nothing beyond that add or relieves any credibility from the sovereign people of Scotland right to choose.

I think you'll find that a material change of circumstances (the now UK outside the EU) adds considerably to the legal weight of an argument. That could be important should the UK government end up at the International Human Rights Court at The Hague for denying Wee Nicola the right to hold a legally binding referendum.

Even Wee Nicola recognises she has to get Westminster permission to make the thing legal. But they may struggle to withhold it given they granted it before and things have changed.

These kind of points carry more weight than what was agreed 300 years ago which can be overrode by "custom and practice". 

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3 minutes ago, Zorro said:

His mindset relies on the assumption people like you unquestionably accept his authority. 

Which he clearly does, as do all the yoons on here.  Their constant questioning points to this but their lack of piss understanding of the workings of the actual union is classic British Empire re education to their wishes and not the actual facts.

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8 minutes ago, Zorro said:

His mindset relies on the assumption people like you unquestionably accept his authority. 

I think you'll find that "the people" unquestioningly accepting his authority are in fact Tory MPs and I can give you a 100% guarantee that they are nothing like me.

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For what it’s worth, I don’t think there’ll be a second referendum anytime soon. I think the next general election will be fought on obtaining a mandate to negotiate Scotland leaving the union. Sturgeon is just playing the game here; showing she’s tried working with U.K. parties, tried negotiating a better Brexit, tried to achieve what’s best for Scotland under the current setup and been ignored. 

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21 minutes ago, Gallus said:

What is a 'yoon'? 

I think it is meant to be an abusive term for those un-persuaded of the merits of Scottish independence. It is intended to convey a the image of a herd creature, devoid of critical thinking skills.

I keep on pointing out that if you need to persuade people to your point of view then the very last thing you should start off with is hurling abuse at them but that message seems to have been lost.

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4 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

I think it is meant to be an abusive term for those un-persuaded of the merits of Scottish independence. It is intended to convey a the image of a herd creature, devoid of critical thinking skills.

I keep on pointing out that if you need to persuade people to your point of view then the very last thing you should start off with is hurling abuse at them but that message seems to have been lost.

in other words it is a group term for people who don't believe in Magic Beans? surely that must be a compliment?

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4 minutes ago, gdevoy said:

I think it is meant to be an abusive term for those un-persuaded of the merits of Scottish independence. It is intended to convey a the image of a herd creature, devoid of critical thinking skills.

I keep on pointing out that if you need to persuade people to your point of view then the very last thing you should start off with is hurling abuse at them but that message seems to have been lost.

You’d never get unionists using abusive terms... unless you count cyber nats, sheep, cultists, braveheart types...

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34 minutes ago, Zorro said:

You accept he’s above the law...

He is!

Whether I think he should be or not is irrelevant. The fact I believe he is an educated, selfish, narcissistic idiot with less qualification to lead the country than the folks who clean the lavatories where I work caries no weight.

It's not a question of me accepting it. Its a matter of him believing he is and nobody in the Tory party having the self respect or anybody in authority outside it having the self belief to hold him to account.

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4 hours ago, Bhamkillieken said:

didn't the people already decide?

When the facts change, we reserve the right to change our minds... what do you do Tim?

And we can't leave until we decide 'how' it can be done with least harm to the country. Problem is, so-called Leavers can't give us the small things we need, like details.

"Just leave!" just doesn't wash!

(Brexit unicorns are being held up at customs so won't arrive for a while yet. :P)

Edited by Scooter
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