skygod Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) Players in Scotland’s top flight are ready to launch their own campaign to get rid of plastic pitches. MailSport understands senior pros at one of the country’s top clubs have urged PFA Scotland to draw up a petition, which they hope will force the SPFL into action. They believe every player in the Premiership – outwith Kilmarnock, Hamilton and Livingston who have synthetic surfaces – will sign the document in a bid to have them outlawed. Several players are angry that, after completing a survey on mobile app ‘Pitch Rater’ - which saw plastic pitches score just 1.18 and 1.7 out of 5 - nothing has been done to improve the situation. Instead, the SPFL’s response to their feedback was to welcome Livingston – and yet another Astroturf – into the division this year. Now, with fears growing for the safety and well-being of top flight stars, they’re urging union chiefs to act. MailSport understands they want a petition to be drawn up and made available for players to sign, in the hope of forcing an SPFL rule change which would make grass pitches obligatory in the Premiership. Despite the low scores in the players’ ratings last term, with Hamilton and Killie bottom of the table, Neil Doncaster has claimed they’re here to stay. Reacting to news in Holland last week, where top Eredivisie sides Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord will now use Euro earnings to help provincial clubs ditch their plastic pitches, the SPFL chief executive said: “FIFA allow artificial pitches in their competitions and our rules follow that principle. “All artificial pitches are subject to spot checks to continue to perform at FIFA Quality Pro standard throughout the season. “It is open to clubs to change the SPFL rules in this area if they wish but we have not received any such proposals from clubs to date.” But that could be about to change as players themselves become increasingly concerned about the safety of plastic pitches. When the ‘Pitch Rater’ app findings were made public last summer, PFA Scotland chief executive Fraser Wishart said: “Too often players’ views are over-looked within football. “Alterations are made to pitches and different surfaces laid without any thought or consultation with our members. “It’s forgotten that the pitch is our members’ place of work. It makes perfect sense to ask for their views. “Our feedback shows players care about the product on show for fans and the image poor surfaces portray for Scottish football in the wider media. “The results must be considered carefully by decision makers and used to help improve the quality of surfaces in Scotland.” But players have been left frustrated that so far nothing has been done to challenge the use of plastic pitches in the top flight. And they hope a petition signed by the vast majority of players in the league will force the SPFL into a rethink. Kilmarnock, who installed a plastic pitch in 2014, are already considering a switch back to grass with plans afoot to build a new training facility. It’s understood the Rugby Park club will make a final decision on it this summer. (Sunday Mail) Despite the protestations of some that artificial pitches are the future of the game, the evidence seems to say otherwise. With all but one (QoS) of the top ten clubs in the Championship having grass pitches, it's not inconceivable that Killie could have the only artificial pitch in the Premiership next season. It seems to me that making a final decision on RP in the summer would be too late and the board will have to decide sooner rather than later how to replace the pitch. After five years, it's surely due for replacement? BB has always been heavily committed to the plastic surface but the balance of the board has changed drastically in the last five years. Much depends, I suppose, on the search for land for a training facility. Edited October 14, 2018 by skygod -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 In all honesty, we probably should have laid a new football specific one during the summer. But, we seem to have it in our minds that we'll lift this one and put it down at the training centre. If/when it gets built. If the others want it outlawed, they can club together & pay for the replacements. 2 million a chuck should do it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrogate Peter Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 How many of the others train on plastic pitches or resort to that when grass pitches are unfit? Isn't this a bit like top English Premier clubs complaining about too many fixtures and then clearing off to Asia/U.S. at the end or beginning of seasons? More than a bit hypocritical! Don't get me wrong I dislike plastic pitches and I'd ban them but it seems Killie would lift theirs for training if we replace with grass at RP though I'd have thought by then it'll be completely shot! Perhaps there's a role for community use but nothing else .... is that what Killie have in mind in reference to training facility? In which case why is it okay for kids or for private hire but not for professional players? A lot I don't understand here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilm53 Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Scottish Rugby allows their National Team to play on Killie's pitch and they never complain..oops forgot egg chasing players are real men 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 49 minutes ago, Harrogate Peter said: How many of the others train on plastic pitches or resort to that when grass pitches are unfit? Isn't this a bit like top English Premier clubs complaining about too many fixtures and then clearing off to Asia/U.S. at the end or beginning of seasons? More than a bit hypocritical! Don't get me wrong I dislike plastic pitches and I'd ban them but it seems Killie would lift theirs for training if we replace with grass at RP though I'd have thought by then it'll be completely shot! Perhaps there's a role for community use but nothing else .... is that what Killie have in mind in reference to training facility? In which case why is it okay for kids or for private hire but not for professional players? A lot I don't understand here. Part of Project Brave if I remember right. You need to have 2 full sized pitches, and one must be synthetic. So you can train, even if the weather is gash. If I'm misremembering, i'm sure someone will be along shortly to correct. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernsoul Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 The surface at rugby park is absolutely horrendous. Unlike other clubs, the pitch which should only be used for matches is getting hammered on a daily basis by everybody and their dog. People think synthetic pitches are all weather, but it couldn't be further from the truth. They freeze more than grass pitches and take longer to thaw out. With the knowledge and skills of the groundsmen in this country there is absolutely no reason why every club in the top flight cant have a good quality grass surface. Hybrid pitches are standard across Europe now, even the training grounds have them. If we were to rip up the astro and build a hybrid pitch from scratch, we would need a new undersoil heating system, new irrigation and a few lighting rigs. Would only cost about 1.5/2 million. Anybody got any spare change? Every single player and manager i speak to hates playing or training on astro. Thats from youth level up to first team. Ill try find the article on the research from the usa about the cancer links associated with players, mainly goalkeepers who are in regular contact with the recycled tyre rubber thats used to dress the surface. The figures are harrowing -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangodog Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 The article says we will decide in the summer. Surely the decision will have to be made well before that if we are contemplating returning to grass next season considering the layers that are under the artificial surface. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdevoy Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 I don't buy the "safety" stuff but they are "cheap" looking and unsightly and I would not be sad to see the back of ours. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernsoul Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Just now, Wrangodog said: The article says we will decide in the summer. Surely the decision will have to be made well before that if we are contemplating returning to grass next season considering the layers that are under the artificial surface. Absolutely. There are only a few companies in Scotland who build pitches and they are always in demand as soon as the last ball is kicked in may. Realistically we would need to be making a decision right now. Alot of planning needs to be done well in advance. We are installing a hybrid pitch at ibrox at the end of this season and the logistics are proving to be an absolute nightmare. With European qualifiers even earlier now you get 7 weeks to grow a pitch from seed. As you can imagine this is far from ideal as the pitch is nowhere near ready for competitive football. If we get into Europe this year we would need to hope or try and arrange for our last few games to be played away from home to allow the work to start at the earliest opportunity possible. You need to play all your European ties at the same venue. Presuming we make the champions league final of course 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piffer Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 I don’t think the Scottish football calendar is particularly accommodating of a switch back to grass. There is no way I’m willing to sacrifice home advantage in the run in if we are going for Europe. Likewise whether we are playing in Europe or the league cup next season the park would unlikely be ready for the early games. Do you want to travel to Paisley or Motherwell to watch our early/pre season “home” ties? How much would it cost to play at these venues? Then your considering the ever reliable Scottish weather going in your favour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernsoul Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 If our last home game was the 4th of may, and our first game of the new season was a European qualifier on the 27 th of june i think that would be cutting it very fine to build a pitch. However if our first home game was the 2 nd game of the league cup on the 16th or 17 th of july that changes everything. That gives us around 10 weeks to carryout all the work. A little bit if cooperation from the powers that be would be required. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skygod Posted October 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) 52 minutes ago, piffer said: I don’t think the Scottish football calendar is particularly accommodating of a switch back to grass. There is no way I’m willing to sacrifice home advantage in the run in if we are going for Europe. We wouldn't necessarily have to sacrifice home advantage but our post-split matches at home would have to scheduled at the start. It's not just the Scottish calendar which makes changing a surface tricky - the football close season generally has become ridiculously short. Here's a reminder of how much s**t there is to be excavated under the present pitch: Edited October 14, 2018 by skygod -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan76 Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 would we not need a complete new undersoil heating ssytem also, was that not part of the issue in the first place, the super duper one we had installed turned out to leak and couldn't be turned on after 11pm due to noise? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilly Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 What was wrong with the pitch before they changed it to an all weather pitch 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killie alan Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Absolutely nothing was wrong with it. It was all about making money 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilly Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Just now, Killie alan said: Absolutely nothing was wrong with it. It was all about making money I did think that always remember back in the day the pitch looked lovely at the start of the season 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skygod Posted October 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Trojan76 said: would we not need a complete new undersoil heating ssytem also, was that not part of the issue in the first place, the super duper one we had installed turned out to leak and couldn't be turned on after 11pm due to noise? As I interpret the SPFL rules, you no longer need an undersoil heating system: "H10 Each Club shall provide, maintain and use in such manner as to ensure its efficient and effective operation an adequate winter pitch protection system. Such systems shall be fully utilised by the Home Club before any League Match or Play-Off Match where there is a reasonable possibility of its pitch otherwise being frozen or covered in snow or ice so as to ensure that the League Match is able to take place at the venue and on the date and time scheduled notwithstanding such possibility. Pitch Condition H11 Each Club shall ensure that the field of play at its Registered Ground and at any other ground at which it is the Home Club for a League Match or Play-Off Match is:- H11.1 smooth and in good condition and repair; and H11.2 equipped with an efficient and effective drainage system so that it cannot become unplayable due to flooding." Edited October 14, 2018 by skygod -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan76 Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 It had to come up as there was an issue with the under soil heating system leaking 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernsoul Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Trojan76 said: would we not need a complete new undersoil heating ssytem also, was that not part of the issue in the first place, the super duper one we had installed turned out to leak and couldn't be turned on after 11pm due to noise? A new undersoil heating system and a full new irrigation system, but once they are in thats it. They should last years aslong as they are properly maintained. It would be costly to start but your talking about a budget of around 50 k a year to maintain the pitch which isnt much really 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skygod Posted October 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Killie alan said: It was all about making money It was all about saving money, payments to hire training facilities. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan76 Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 1 minute ago, skygod said: As I interpret the SFPL rules, you no longer need an undersoil heating system: "H10 Each Club shall provide, maintain and use in such manner as to ensure its efficient and effective operation an adequate winter pitch protection system. Such systems shall be fully utilised by the Home Club before any League Match or Play-Off Match where there is a reasonable possibility of its pitch otherwise being frozen or covered in snow or ice so as to ensure that the League Match is able to take place at the venue and on the date and time scheduled notwithstanding such possibility. Would "an adequate winter pitch protection ssytem" not mean undersoil heatng? Straw and blankets wouldn't count these days 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby_Doo Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, Neilly said: I did think that always remember back in the day the pitch looked lovely at the start of the season And by October it was f**ked. It wouldn't recover until April. Since the 'new' stands were built, its been harder to keep the pitch in good nick as it doesn't get enough sun now. If they're going to put grass down again, they need to invest in the equipment to keep it in good condition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skygod Posted October 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) In the past, I think it stipulated under-soil heating system for Premiership clubs. The fact that it doesn't suggests that the rule has been relaxed and would permit a hot-air tent, for example. There would, of course, be penalties if it wasn't effective (but was the under-soil system truly effective?). Edited October 14, 2018 by skygod 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernsoul Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Realistically you need frost sheets as well as undersoil heating . The more you use the heating, especially when its up full you inevitably see your pitch rapidly deteriorating. The heat kills the roots which are in dormancy during the winter. A great tool to have if used wisely 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangodog Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 21 minutes ago, skygod said: In the past, I think it stipulated under-soil heating system for Premiership clubs. The fact that it doesn't suggests that the rule has been relaxed and would permit a hot-air tent, for example. There would, of course, be penalties if it wasn't effective (but was the under-soil system truly effective?). No it wasn't, it was hellish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.